Anti-Sikh site?

[Mkhalsa]

Nobody can/should identify themselves as a jatt and a sikh, you can only be one or the other. Theres more than enough bani to support this. "Jatt Sikh" is an oxymoron if I ever heard one.

Some would even argue one of guru sahibs main objectives on this earth was to abolish the caste system and here we are using it like idiots.

[Akaal Purakh Di Fauj]

Thats an interesting take bro, its strange though, the Jatts are actually the "Shudra" caste which basically means the lowest of the low, but the Jatts say they never were inducted into the caste system and that the Brahmans considered all non-Hindus as "Shudras".

Maybe it was because they were irrelegious (the Jatts) that they werent put into the caste system and put at the bottom lol

Its the right take not an interesting take in my opinion....

Nobody can/should identify themselves as a jatt and a sikh, you can only be one or the other. Theres more than enough bani to support this. "Jatt Sikh" is an oxymoron if I ever heard one.

Some would even argue one of guru sahibs main objectives on this earth was to abolish the caste system and here we are using it like idiots.

:wub: @ :wub: @

[S1ngh]

Being a jatt is not wrong.

Being a bhappa is not wrong.

Being a tarkhan is not wrong.

Being a jatt and calling others low is wrong.

Being a bhappa and calling jatts low is wrong.

Being a tarkhan and calling jatts and bhappa low is wrong.

One can be proud of its culture but there's always limit !

Being born in this planet there's virtually limit on everything except following sikhi :e:

[ramnik]

well said vicky

but i prey to jatts that they should be concerned about the sikhi swaroop that they are loosing. its become a joke, keeping a beard like a mulla and short hair, when they feel like they wear a turban when they dont they take it off. like that a person is not a sikh, not a muslim and not a hindu. he is a NOBODY. just look at punjab police. they look like clowns with turbans like caps and dotted beard and cut hair.jokers.

if this nonsense goes on some day people will have to show their children photos how the sikhs looked like.

i am not sorry that i have used harsh words as i am disgusted by what is happening amongst our community, in punjab and within my family, i can't force anybodybut i can say what i feel.

[Khalsa Fauji]

Gurfateh!!

Getae Ji i respect your point of view :

"I'm here to question what I have learned about Sikhism so far, as you can see from my other posts I'm somewhat tuned into Sikh history, but the best way to get to the truth is hear all sides of the story. "

It's very important that you do get both sides of the story, caste does exist and has done for a very long time :

Awpy ds AT vrn aupwieAnu Awip bRhmu Awip rwju lieAw ]

He Himself created the people of the eighteen castes; God Himself acquired His domain.

However, just because there are caste is doesnt mean that one is better than the other, it doesnt matter what caste you are born into we all strive for the same thing, we all pray to the same God who is casteless

jwiq Ajwiq AjonI sMBau nw iqsu Bwau n Brmw ]1]

His caste is casteless; He is unborn, self-illumined, and free of doubt and desire. ||1||

KqRI bRwhmx sUd vYs aupdysu chu vrnw kau swJw ]

gurmuiK nwmu jpY auDrY so kil mih Git Git nwnk mwJw ]4]3]50]

The four castes - the Kh'shaatriyas, Brahmins, Soodras and Vaishyas - are equal in respect to the teachings.

One who, as Gurmukh, chants the Naam, the Name of the Lord, is saved. In this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, O Nanak, God is permeating the hearts of each and every being. ||4|

;|3||50||

Each and every one of us wishes to seek salvation and must do Simran to achieve that.

So if Maharaaj Ji says that we are all equal and are all after the same thing, why are we associating ourselves with castes which are superficial??

bRwhmxu KqRI sUd vYs cwir vrn cwir AwsRm hih jo hir iDAwvY so prDwnu ]

ijau cMdn inkit vsY ihrfu bpuVw iqau sqsMgiq imil piqq prvwxu ]3]

There are four castes: Brahmin, Kh'shaatriya, Soodra and Vaishya, and there are four stages of life. One who meditates on the Lord, is the most distinguished and renowned.

The poor castor oil plant, growing near the sandalwood tree, becomes fragrant; in the same way, the sinner, associating with the Saints, becomes acceptable and approved. ||3||

By sitting in Sadh Sangat, we attempt to wash away the feeling of caste, by sitting in Sadh Sangat we are accepting each other as the same.

However by starting a website called jattworld you are going against everything Maharaaj Ji has stated, unless that site is purly a resource for "jatt history" or something along that line i think thats acceptable, however if one is going to state that they are Sikh aswell, well thats hypocrisy and pure contradiction.

These are my opinions, there may be those of you who wish to disagree with anything i have said and that is healthy as i am still learning as most of us are, and i believe the key to learning is asking questions.

If i'v made any mistakes please correct me also if i have offended anyone i do most sincerely apologise.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Gurfateh!!

[Heera Singh]

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh..!!

Getae, bro, i'm glad to hear that ur not here to cause any beef or nothing... i's good to get a broad perspective of thingz, and i think i's better that u came out n said it now rather then people gettin <Edited> off at you in the future... but yeh.. like i said b4.. no offence was intended, hope u didn't take it the wrong way..

and about caste..... bottom line, caste is jes SOCIAL STATUS... and if we believe that everybody is equal, then that goes against sikhi (and probably many other religions as well)... like people have said earlier, people tend to mix PUNJABI CULTURE and the SIKH RELIGION together... the fact of the matter is, probably about 90%+ of punjabi culture contradicts the beliefs of the Sikh Religion.. and yeh i think we've all heard people say the phrase "jatt sikh" or "ramgharia sikh" or something.. tha's bout the schtupidest thing i've ever heard...

the diff .... in punjabi culture you can be a jatt or ramgharian... in the Sikh religion, u are a Sikh plain and simple.. it's either one or the other, in this sort of situation, there's no half way point...

anywhoo, tha's jes my view of it...

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh..!!

[Mahavir]

Does Gurbani tell us abolish caste or just not give importance to caste?

There is a difference. I think of myself as a Punjabi, Jatt who is a Sikh. I don't give any importance to my ethnic heritage, but I do recognize it. Just like a Scottish White Christian may also believe that he is no better than an Ethiopian Black Christian.

I don't think there's anything wrong with identifying your racial/ethnic background. You shouldn't view yourself as being superior or inferior to anyone else.

[Khalsa Fauji]

Gurfateh!!

Maharaaj Ji tells us that caste does exist, for it was Waheguru who created everything, so feel free to know your racial background. However as a Gursikh that is no longer important as we are all brothers and sisters, sons and daughters of the same Creator who is casteless,

" jwiq Ajwiq "

" His caste is casteless"

thus we have no caste. It is not an important issue as there is nothing one caste can do better than another we can all do the same if we work towards it.

The fact is it does exist right now but if all of us listened to Guru Maharaaj Ji it wouldnt, its like the other hot topic at the moment "dancing" it does exist but there is no need for it to exist as no spiritual gain will be obtained from it.

So to answer your question Mahavir, Guru Ji tells us not to give importance to caste, if that was done then caste would be abolished :TH:

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Gurfateh!!

[Getae]

Hi Mahavir,

Well put, my own take is the same as that site has posted, identify myself with my physical ancestors, and my spiritual ancestors at the same time.

Although relegion is very important, we cannot forget who we are and what we came from, that would be disrespectful in my opinion.

I dislike the word caste, I think that site has proved without a doubt that Jatts are actually a seperate ethnicity and non-Indian, hence no caste. It's like the Pathans of Afghanistan, a seperate group of people residing in that country who are not actually natives of that country.

Thats from what I gather on their discussions, as I do research Jatt history via that site.

[Khalsa4ever]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

k, the "Jatt" being a separate identity has been discussed NUMEROUS times on this forum. And regardless of what people say, it is a caste-linkage, and once you become a Singh(nee), with your father as Guru Gobind Singh Jee, it doesn't matter where you thought you were from. The problem with "recognising" the caste is that it is implicitly outlined as the first step to "practicing" caste.

If you recall correctly, when Guru Gobind Singh gave the names Singh and Kaur to his followers, they were names meant to REPLACE the existing last names which had implicit caste biases to them. In other words, it was the intention of removing any references to caste...

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!