Concept of Sin

[Ranjeet01]

According to Christians we are born with sin.

The reason they think this is because we according to them the human race are descended from Adam and Eve and they sinned and were casted out from the Garden of Eden.

We cannot be saved except through Jesus Christ because he was born of a virgin birth. Only he can save us because he is God incarnated into human form and is his own son and since he was not descended from Adam and Eve, he is not affected by this original sin and therefore can save us.

This is not how we consider sin. We are not born with sin but we are come have effects of karma from our own previous incarnations. We have divinity within us, a "jot" and we do not need to be saved. We are part of Waheguru, how and why does Maharaj need to save something which is a part of himself.

After 84 lakh joons, it is a blessing to get to the level and a form of a human which provides us an opportunity to break the cycle and get back to Sach kind.

We got this far, what is so sinful about that?

[Suchi]

On 4/23/2023 at 6:01 PM, Ranjeet01 said:

According to Christians we are born with sin.

The reason they think this is because we according to them the human race are descended from Adam and Eve and they sinned and were casted out from the Garden of Eden.

We cannot be saved except through Jesus Christ because he was born of a virgin birth. Only he can save us because he is God incarnated into human form and is his own son and since he was not descended from Adam and Eve, he is not affected by this original sin and therefore can save us.

This is not how we consider sin. We are not born with sin but we are come have effects of karma from our own previous incarnations. We have divinity within us, a "jot" and we do not need to be saved. We are part of Waheguru, how and why does Maharaj need to save something which is a part of himself.

After 84 lakh joons, it is a blessing to get to the level and a form of a human which provides us an opportunity to break the cycle and get back to Sach kind.

We got this far, what is so sinful about that?

The concept of sin was invented so that we can be blamed for all manner of wrongs and therefore, punished. The Catholic Church is known for its abuse of women, children and foreigners (non Christian) who are then forced to obey the Church diktat. Hence why confession was invented and forced conversions justified. 

These Abrahamic religions are designed to enslave humanity, which we are seeing, especially since Kovid. But it has been going on since Christianity was invented, probably using the story of Krishna Nitty. 

[BhForce]

On 4/23/2023 at 10:01 AM, Ranjeet01 said:

This is not how we consider sin. We are not born with sin but we are come have effects of karma from our own previous incarnations.

I agree we're not born with sin like the Christians think. Also I agree we have effects of karma.

But Gurbani does state that the body contains both sin and charity (goodness):

ਕਾਇਆ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਪਾਪੁ ਪੁੰਨੁ ਦੁਇ ਭਾਈ ॥

Within the body are the two brothers sin and virtue. p126

On 4/23/2023 at 10:01 AM, Ranjeet01 said:

We have divinity within us, a "jot" and we do not need to be saved.

Actually, we do need to be saved. Gurbani calls this "udhaar" (uplift).

Without Satguru, souls are liable to spiritual death:

ਜਿਨਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨ ਭੇਟਿਓ ਸੇ ਭਾਗਹੀਣ ਵਸਿ ਕਾਲ ॥ p40
Those who have not met Satguru Purakh are unfortunate and liable to death.

So, yeah, we do need to be saved, and Guru ji does the saving.

The reason Satguru is the one to save is because God has given Satguru the "key" (kunji):

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹਥਿ ਕੁੰਜੀ ਹੋਰਤੁ ਦਰੁ ਖੁਲੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰੈ ਭਾਗਿ ਮਿਲਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੭॥
In the True Guru's hand is the key. None else can open the door. By perfect good fortune the Guru is met. p124

[MokhamSingh]

The Mind is Jyot Saroop (Waheguru), but the mind is under the influence of five evils…

Through Naam Simran( Rememberance), the mind will begin to detach from evil, and get back to its original form ( MANN TU JYOT SAROOP HEH)…

Until the mind breaks free from the five evils, one will go through the cycle of paap and punn….which leads to Karma…

Naam Simran destroys past karma, and prevents new karma coming into fruition…

I did this, I did that…

This non realisation of the Jyot Saroop gives rise to paap and Punn, which in turn gives birth to suffering and misery…