Why Sikhi Is Weak?

[Bijla Singh]

Of course we can unite and my post above explains what should be the first step toward unity. Goodbye to all jathas unless we are afraid that our "jathedari" and "chardeekala" is in danger.

[Guest Akaal108]

Guys there is difference between jatheya's and sampardha..!

Jathe- Man Made

Sampardha- Guru Made orders- Nirmaley, Nihangs, Taksal, Sevapanthis etc.

How can we say Good bye to something that was created by our own Guru's as pillar's of Khalsa Panth and they were created to keep chardi-kalah of khalsa panth ???

I don't see no major problems between sampardha's (orders).

[Sewadar]

We request to all Sangats... Pls don't bring Jatha Topic in Every Single Thread of this forum we discuss. We don't want this forum to be based only on "Jatha Discussions". Keep the balance Sangatoo. Gurfateh

[Guest JSS]

akaal veerji...

i don't see your logic about sampardas being any better than jathas....

most jathas were started by gurmukhs/brahmgiaynis....people who were ikmik with akal purkh...

your conclusion of how we can drop a creation of guru ji?.....VERY EASILY....if we just look at the Masands...they were created by guru ji..but as soon as they got out of line....guru ji threw them in boiling oil and forbade us to hav any dealings with them.....

i'm not saying anything against the sampardas...i don't know enough about them to make any statment either way...i've never been to an udasi gurdwara or a nirmala gurdwara or even a nihung encampment...so i have no opinions on them...but hypothetically...if these institutions though started by guru ji succombed to external elements and changed their ways..then i would say it would be best to drop them....don't you think?...after all guru ji has provided us the example himself...

[sukhnidhaan]

We request to all Sangats... Pls don't bring Jatha Topic in Every Single Thread of this forum we discuss. We don't want this forum to be based only on "Jatha Discussions". Keep the balance Sangatoo. Gurfateh

87353[/snapback]

Just some valid points being made IMHO, in response to questions 'raised'!

[sukhnidhaan]

I have heard from so many people that if AKJ and Taksal unite together Panth will be lot stronger and we can liberate Khalistan. I used to believe this but I don't see it ever happening. I personally think that we will have to say goodbye to AKJ and Taksal and all other major and minor groups if we want unity. beliefs of AKJ and Taksal are totally opposite. Even if I assume there will be unity it will never be permanent and if I assume they can liberate Khalistan by putting their differences aside then everyone would want his jatha to be on the top controlling Akal Takhat. There was not a powerful Punjab State until 12 misls system was eliminated. Today's jathas are just like 12 misls and need to be eliminated. After that have Khalsa smagams and rein sabais, united panth can setup santhiya and gatka schools, Sikhs together can do simran at gurdwaras. so keep kirtan katha and simran but not jathas. Have one Khalsa Jatha and that's it. I am sure that when the time comes for Khalsa Raj all jathebandis will unite together as Khalsa but there will not be any other jathas left. I hope I did not offend anyone. This is just what I think. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

U seem to be contradicticting yourself Bhaji. So liberation will be attained by a process of elimination to get unity??!

I personally will go with panth's decision and would change my beliefs but what about those associated with jatha?

Yeah...but which 'jatha' affiliation r u talking about veer ji?!

DDT + AKJ both have drRirRta in rehat, with only minor differences, which if Hukamnaamae were released by Sarbat Khalsa from Akaal Takhat- our headquarters- then there'd be like major movement on it's way!

Stay in Chardee Kalaa veer ji...trying to channel the 'energy' up to ur dasam duaar! Waheguru :umm:

[SSM]

''just in my city there are over 10 gurdwaras. pakkay sikhs only need ONE. anyways, i think we can argue over it for hours but that is not the point of this thread.''

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

I don't know why ppl have a problem with so many Gurdwaras. Or even have a problem with those that are well decorated. Yes we need that money to be spent wisely to teach youth and all that. But it is a building where Guru Granth Sahib Ji are so if we spend a lot of money is that wrong? I'm saying this because I think some of us buy expensive furniture for our homes and complain when Guru Ji's house is made using expensive materials.

Also, I have about 5 Gurdwaras all within a ten min walk. But the older ppl are happy because they cannot walk far so if there is one next to them they can go there.

The youth is happy because there is usually one close to them where they can go in the morning.

Pakkay Sikhs need only one Gurdwara close to them but as long as these Gurdwaras are not divided on caste, I think it is GOOD that there are so many Gurdwaras close to us because of the points stated above. Every time you go out there is a Gurdwara every direction. It feels great.

This may sound irrelevant but I think it makes the kids feel proud of being Sikh because there are all these beautiful Gurdwaras. eg. when Havelock Rd Gurdwara was in the news it must have made Sikhs put their heads up with pride and what they had done with Waheguru Ji di kirpa: built a beautiful building for their great Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

Bhul chuk maaf

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh ji

[Akaal Purakh Di Fauj]

''just in my city there are over 10 gurdwaras. pakkay sikhs only need ONE. anyways, i think we can argue over it for hours but that is not the point of this thread.''

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

I don't know why ppl have a problem with so many Gurdwaras. Or even have a problem with those that are well decorated. Yes we need that money to be spent wisely to teach youth and all that. But it is a building where Guru Granth Sahib Ji are so if we spend a lot of money is that wrong? I'm saying this because I think some of us buy expensive furniture for our homes and complain when Guru Ji's house is made using expensive materials.

Also, I have about 5 Gurdwaras all within a ten min walk. But the older ppl are happy because they cannot walk far so if there is one next to them they can go there.

The youth is happy because there is usually one close to them where they can go in the morning.

Pakkay Sikhs need only one Gurdwara close to them but as long as these Gurdwaras are not divided on caste, I think it is GOOD that there are so many Gurdwaras close to us because of the points stated above. Every time you go out there is a Gurdwara every direction. It feels great.

This may sound irrelevant but I think it makes the kids feel proud of being Sikh because there are all these beautiful Gurdwaras. eg. when Havelock Rd Gurdwara was in the news it must have made Sikhs put their heads up with pride and what they had done with Waheguru Ji di kirpa: built a beautiful building for their great Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

Bhul chuk maaf

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh ji

87384[/snapback]

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH,

whats the point in having loads of beautiful gurudwaras if in 50 or 100 years time no sikhs will be left to look after them? when sikhs are only left in name? :umm:

although i understand what ur saying :cool:

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

[Guest Akaal108]

akaal veerji...

i don't see your logic about sampardas being any better than jathas....

most jathas were started by gurmukhs/brahmgiaynis....people who were ikmik with akal purkh...

your conclusion of how we can drop a creation of guru ji?.....VERY EASILY....if we just look at the Masands...they were created by guru ji..but as soon as they got out of line....guru ji threw them in boiling oil and forbade us to hav any dealings with them.....

i'm not saying anything against the sampardas...i don't know enough about them to make any statment either way...i've never been to an udasi gurdwara or a nirmala gurdwara or even a nihung encampment...so i have no opinions on them...but hypothetically...if these institutions though started by guru ji succombed to external elements and changed their ways..then i would say it would be best to drop them....don't you think?...after all guru ji has provided us the example himself...

87355[/snapback]

Sowwie if my post sounds like sampardha's are better than jatha's. I didn't mean i that...

What i was saying is this-

Sampardha's are good to track back the orginal tradtions/maryada's and so on and so forth.

No doubt Jatha's who are started by bhramgyanis/mahapursh can also have orginal tradition.

But you have got jatha's who are changing traditions by bringing their matt into it and claiming they are only right representation of "Khalsa"..now that's a problem.....!

we all know because of tat-khalsa maryada all the sampardha's were pushed aside, ithasik granths were alerted, raag vidiya, shastar vidiya was lost and new maryada was bought into the panth.

That's when I would rely on sampardha (orders) to know sikhi that Guru Maharaj gave us not sikh borrowed by british or tat-khalsa.

Jatha like dodra are in stealth mode.. they are not bothered with politics.. and do full parchar of kirtan, prema bhakti .. that's no way wrong...they are enuf jatha's like that in sikhi which are in stealth mode in sikhi which is perfect...in my eyes- they are same as any other sampardha..

For me personally, out lost sikh heritage matters the most ...we should try to get the lost hertiage back where it was no matter what...that's where author of Sikh Warrior Saints- Amandeep Singh M being doing...he is also doing through sampardha (orders) which were created by Guru's themselves....that's only way to retreive what sikhi has lost..sampardha's has kept it, perserved in good condition whether it's maryada, vidiya, manuscripts, sau sakhi's, vaikhiya, santhia, granths etc etc...!

I hope i m bit clear this time.

[Shaheed]

I have heard from so many people that if AKJ and Taksal unite together Panth will be lot stronger and we can liberate Khalistan. I used to believe this but I don't see it ever happening.

Bijla veer ji i would have to disagree, the rising action up to 84 attack we saw Babbar/Taksal Unity....more then that panthic unity. everyone knows how much respect taksal/akj holds for e/o we all seen the pictures of Sant Jarnail Singh ji seating the babbars on manjhe and doing seva for them. i know they have differences on rehit alone, but both share sharda for akal and i would like to think that can come over any problem when it is neccessary.

akal veerji, i agree when jatha's/sampardas dont try to preech to others and are in "stealth mode" it is best......an example is. Damdami Taksal it was unheard of out side of Punjab until the late 70's now its in constantly looked at on every major opinion....and then they get critized for it. now ill go on a limb and say that there is a certain level of RSS in all jathas and sampardas only because they came into the media eye soo much.