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mand5 - im an ex radhasoami..... before i continue, well done for seeking answers from another source other then your radhasoami community. for this i must commend your efforts. I use to ask my family questions, they use to tell me not to ask others because others are "non believers... they think there way is right"... also my family use to say "maharaji (rs baba) is a walking granth... those who insult him are acting in ignorance"... my friend... you, and all other radhasoamis that believe in this pakhandi baba have been brainwashed. i hate to disapoint you, but he isnt god - just the thought really does turn my stomach. the radhasoami baba is NOT antarjami (innermost knowing)... if he was, he would have knew my plans to turn to king of kings Guru Granth Sahib ji MAHARAJ - SACHE PATSHAH and he would have stoped me from doing so... but he didnt... hes nothing more then a con artist. please save your family from the falsehood of radhasoami. at their time of death u do not want them thinking of a pakhandi "maharaj"... or reciting a fake mantra. Everyone knows Gurbani is truth and real... you want your family thinking of Vaheguru and reciting Vaheguru at their time of death. i can answer all your questions. please message me your phone numeber and we can have a chat. many things wrong with radhasoami mat. 1 - randha soami land in beas is currently legally in the name of Guru Granth Sahib Ji Mahraj 2- radha soami forbids alchahol and meat... not tobacco... read into radha soami history, or read "the masters answers" and find out why tobaco is not forbiden (or allowed) in radhaosami faith 3-radha soami replaced sikh greating of WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH with "radhasoami" 4-radha soami replaced gurmantra with a fake mantra 5- radha soamis do not belioeve in guru manio granth 6- radha soamis do nothing for the victims of the 84 genocide - not even the radhasoami victims 7-radhasoami baba does not speak out against injustices (guru nanak sahib did) i can go on and on and on. the list is truely endless. radhasoami baba is nothing... nowhere near our 10 satguru sahibs and guru granth sahib ji. the works of our Puran Satguru Sahibs is nothing short then the Work of God. All radha soami baba does is fool innocent and simple sangat - this is no achievement as punjabis are generally simple in nature. Radha soami refuse to believe GURU granth sahib ji is guru... yet radhasoami mat use to be centered around Guru granth sahib ji. Guru Granth Sahib Ji use to be parkash in beas... they wheeled in sikh sangat with ttheir fake prachar... messing with Gurbani is messing with Vaheguru... this is not a small sin that can be overlooked. yes gurbani and guru granth sahib ji maharaj is universal... but that does not mean it can be misused. this is mahapaap (huge sin). radha soami copy sikh traditions like guru ka langar, yet they do not believe its necessary to keep kara kachera kirpan kesh khanga... they call dasam bani false in "spiritual letters" book in "spiritual heritage" book they say sri harimanir sahib is just "brick and water" - how offensive the other radhasoami book "guru nanak, his mystic teachings" - is wholly offensive to sikhs. bhai gurdas sahib's bani is discredited... they also disagree with the documentated history behind gurdwara panja sahib... the list is endless.... i turely can go on and on. why does radhasoami only mess with sikh history and sikh beliefs and not the beliefs of other faiths?? why does radhasoami baba keep sikh apperance?? regarding your comment "you need a living guru" this is true. guru granth sahib ji is alive. if you believe in guru granth sahib ji mahjaraj you will be aware of the following truths: "bani guru guru hai bani vich bani amritsare" "sun sun jeeva terey bani" and others. there is no difference between gurbani and the guru.... we live by listening to GURBANI. we can not believe in what you guys believe in. satbachan is not gurbani... far from it. a sikh would never recite the words of tobacco users, and a sikh would never accept a tobacco user as their satguru. tobacco is strictly forbidden in sikh faith. even if gurbani told us to run to a living human for salvation (which it doesnt)... i would never run to the feet of such a fraudster radha sooami baba. do not study gurbvani from pakhandi baba, please learn gurmukhi and study for yourself. ive done it all... my family use to visit haynes park, and beas... we used to attend bhandara and put our names down for sewa... i am so thankful that Vaheguru has saved my family from that path and brought us to the path of Gursikhi. I am deeply saddened that there are literally millions of radha soami devotees. its very saddening. ill finish on this tuk of guru gobind singh ji maharaj.. sagal duar ko shhad ke, ghaiho tuharo duar, banhe gahe kio laj as gobind das tuhar - i have abandoned all gates (paths) and i have come to yours o lord, o lord please protect my honour and hold my arm, for i am your humble servant for any mistakes bhul chuk maaf vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh. (mand5, inbox me, we can discuss this further if you wish, i know its hard to accept... but believe me your baba is a fake... go back to the house of Our Puran Satguru's... we know for a fact they are real and true... have no doubts and embrace their pavitar bani)

Mand5 I suggest you learn to be a bit more respectful before you think its right to question Sikhi in such an abrupt and negative manner. Just come out with it why pretend as you are a RS are you not comfortable with your "panth?" I think the newbie monitoring system is broke as it is letting in all kinds of weird stuff

Never trust anyone you 'likes' their own post. :biggrin2: :blush2:

it really saddens me... all those poor radhasoami sangat. vaheguru. its really not their fault they have gone to rs baba because there is many problems in life, and its goto be said... our gurdwaras do not provide the support which our community needs. our leaders do not deal with grass root problems and communicate with us on a level. we (newer generations) need to identify these problems and take the lead in this. radhasoamis do not practice gurbani kirtan. ALL OUR SIKH GURU SAHIBS PRACTICED GURBANI KIRTAN.... 5TH GURU SAHIB invented the saranda musical instrument... radhasoami baba says it is WRONG to use musical instruments for kirtan. when radhasoami's sing gurbani sahib, they never use instruments as its aginst radhasoami mat... this is stupid... musical instruments are CENTRAL TO SIKHI. radhasoami baba does not know better then our Satguru Sahibs. i can go on and on. i really can. please save your family and accept the truth. dont take my word for it. study sikh history study gurbani then you will see why we are not willing to embrase radhasoami's as a part of the sikh community.

The five names of RS beas is: 1. Jot Niranjan. 2. Omkar. 3. Rarankar. 4. Sohang. 5. Sat Nam The Radhasoamis of Agra(who are the original) have a different Mantar. For them "RadhaSoami" is the mantar given to them not the 5 worded mantar of Beas. In fact Jaimal Singh wasn't even given the "gurgadhi" by Shiv Dayal. Jaimal Singh is not mentioned in any of the Radhasoami documents during the time of Shiv Dayal. He was just a pretender of the Radhasoami Guruship. When Shiv Dayal died, there were many Radhasoamis who can be considered bigger fish in the pond then Jaimal Singh. Shiv Dayal's brother (who is called Chachaji), his wife (radha ji), or even his biggest Chela Rai SaligRam. Even the term "Radhasoami" is a distortion. The Radhasoamis now try to give it a mystical meaning by claiming that Radha means soul and soami(swami) means God. When in fact, Radha actually means Shiv Dayal's wife who name was Radha and Soami means Shiv Dayal himself since that is what Radhasoamis at the time called Shiv Dayal. So Radha Soami means (Radhaji and Swami Shiv Dayal). Further more, Shiv Dayal never really started the Radhasoami faith. This faith was the invention of Rai Saligram who was the closest Chela of Shiv Dayal and this fact is also supported by the legal will of Shiv Dayal where he states My Path was the Path of Sat Naam and Anami Naam. The Radhasoami faith is of Saligram's making The Radhasoami faith and it's various branches are all a fraud. But the Beas and it's break away branches (noor-mahalias, sacha sauda, kirpal singh's group, dera baba bagga singh) are one of the biggest frauds today. We as Sikhs should inform all the people we know about this heretic cult so more people are not misled and destroy their priceless human Janam.

Paneer monster rocksss!!!!!! Beautifully answered :strong: its like watching a football match,, with one side scoring :D

True post N30Singh, Sant Maskeen Ji mentioned this in one of the kathas I was listening to where Sant Maskeen Ji talks about Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji and looking at the spiritual side of Guru Sahib and comparing what it means to look Guru Sahib from the outside and what it means to look at the inside. The explanation was beautiful. :

I usually like to look at the root of problem. The reason why people are going more towards other pseudo cults like radhaswamis is because lack of bhramvidya in the panth as i posted earlier - http://www.sikhsanga...a-in-the-panth/ ..it's replaced by bhandi parchar - abhramic version of Vahiguroo/God, rational, missionary, bhausari thought which shoved sikhi in a tunnel. This is single handly an number one cause of people are swaying away from sikhi because of our parcharaiks and parchar. While political activism is good and have very special place in sikhi as dharam and rajneeti are not seperated they are together. I feel we have gone way overboard with political activism in gurdwaras to the point that we have forgotten spiritual sikhi (adhyatamic sikhi- sant aspect in panth) which is main layer of one's life. It's from sant aspect of one's life(dya, bhramgyan, sam dristhi, satogun) sipahi is born not the other way around..as i mentioned earlier - sipahi spirit in sikhi should be born, properly controlled, preserved and nurture from sant spirit not from sheer tamogun..sheer tamogun makes one rakshash and khalsa is not rakshash.!! Anyway, parchariks have gone way overboard with doing parchar of sipahi aspect in sikhi i.e - dhaadi varan/katha of our warriors, our guru sahiban..showing only one aspect- sipahi aspect of our guru sahib- For eg- Potral of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji as only an warrior, not divine majestic master and giver to people from all walks of life..there were reasons why there are 52 poets in guru maharaj darbar, there was reason why guru gobind singh maharaj was divine master and giver of raag vidya to all, there was a reason why guru gobind singh maharaj created taksal , nirmale, sevapanthis (scholary knights in the sikhism), there was a reason why sri guru gobind singh ji wrote majestic gurbani in true poetic form such as - jaap sahib, sri akaal ustat showing sargun and nirgun beauty of Vahiguroo and there was a reason why bhai nand lal wrote deep spiritual craving poetry towards majestic divine sri guru gobind singh ji so our pendu bandai don't potray sri guru gobind singh according to their own mindset and according to their own little tunnel version of sikhi..!!..but everything happened opposite in the panth..!! We didn't even get the basic and extremely important matter right. We failed to provide theological explanation of what is Vahiguroo in sikhism and let alone mystic layer of sikhi. Most of our parcharaik(missionary etc type) have used abrahamic, semetic version of god in Sikhism to explain Vahiguroo...people need to do their own research on sargun nirgun aspect of vahiguroo (this is what most sikh theology is based on)..On this forum we had a deep vichar with bijla singh ji on it - http://www.sikhsanga...irgun-nirankar/ ..people can read upon it and do their own search..!! There is no bar set for our parcharaiks in the gurwdaras. So any joe blow comes along do parchar with their own mindset/bibek buddhi to make a quick buck. Gyani thakur singh ji patialawale himself said in japji sahib katha that i can go deep but people who are listening are complaining that there is no bir ras in the katha, even sangata are addicted to bir ras katha which are being feed everyday in the gurdwara without keeping balance. The reason our people are attracted to radhaswamis is our parcharik fault and our fault of failing to demand some depth- ask parcharak questions, ask committe vales collectively as sangat to have question and answers sessions with our parcharaiks..radhaswamis steal stuff from our mystic traditions and mix it little bit brand it and present to normal joe with fancy terms- normal joe blow gets totally blown off with mysticism..while radhaswamis steal stuff from our mystic tradition/layer our parcharaiks are still stuck at the shariat layer of dharam and feed shariat layer of dharam all day long without going to depth to sangat. Normal joe in sangat thinks with ignorance- looks like this is sikhi and search somewhere else to fulfill their curiosity or get peace. Our parchariks have shoved sikhi in a tunnel and bought beautiful divine path of sikhi down to mere "dhadi varan, sakhiyas', sikhitothemax translations' Ang- 1083 saraa sareeath lae ka(n)maavahu || Let your practice be to live the spiritual life. thareekath tharak khoj ttolaavahu || Let your spiritual cleansing be to renounce the world and seek God. maarafath man maarahu abadhaalaa milahu hakeekath jith fir n maraa ||3|| Let control of the mind be your spiritual wisdom, O holy man; meeting with God, you shall never die again Sorry don't want make this too long, each one of us and parcharak have moral and spiritual duty to explore sikh deep within both internally and externally. In Akaal ustat-

what i've noticed is that while there still maybe alot of elders that are Radhasoami...but their kids who are born/bred in UK question Radhasoami-ism and find it flawed...hence why i know of sooo many kids who don't want to associate or go to their satsangs in Bedford like their parents do and now call Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee their Guru (whether they're even kesdadhri or not). I think the elder generation are uneducated and follow anything that walks, but their own next generation will come back into Gurmat...and i'm seeing that first hand happening now - i know of too many examples!

Awesome answer Paneer Monster. I hope the OP will get the message loud and clear and come back to SIKHI.

Kaljugi, I have another magnificent Shabad by the same Qawwali group that I uploaded on one of my other youtube accounts (GurdwaraTV)

Thats right, these brainless maggots can only make a mass murderer like Narendra Modi into Gujarat's chief minister. Who the hell gives half a cent if you and your bunch of orangutans supports or opposes the memorial? No one asked you guys to come help with the construction so sit your soon-to-be thrashed backside within the confines of your homes constructed with the blood money of innocent and naive fellow countrymen of yours.

they say "the tounge doesnt let you tell the naam to anyone. even if you wanted to tell someone your tounge wouldnt allow you"... well someone somewhere spilt the beans! unless the tounge doesnt allow but the fingers do! - first class idiots. loooool @ "its like watching a football match,, with one side scoring :D " - too funny

bro u SMASHED IT on this thread. u shudda asked that fool, if we threw a rock @ their baba wud he b able 2 stop it and leave a print on it (like Guru Nanak), or wud it smash him in the face and subsequently file a complaint 2 the police against us?? These fake pakhandis r a joke man, seriously!

Can you show us please where you have seen this?

Looking at it gives me chills.

An eye-opener of a post from Paneer Monster. Usually I'm of the frame of mind of live and let live (as long as beadbi isn't occuring or there's no intentional distortions designed to erode the very foundations of the Sikh faith) but as Paneer Monster brilliantly highlighted, such people turn to these sects out of desperation or, in some cases, laziness at not wishing to learn of the gem of a faith we already have. I do agree there are those at the top of the Sikh faith who have a lot to answer for, but we can't blame others for our personal failings. There comes a time when, as individuals, we have to step-up and make the right choices.

Bhai Sahib was cut short by missionaries, only given 3 minute time for starting dasam bani kirtan, they smashed it though

these are some good ones

http://searchgurbani.com/guru_granth_sahib/ang/901 http://sikhroots.com/audio-mp3/H/49-bhai-harjinder-singh/667-deen-daiyal-bharose-tere/7923-gur-paras-hum-loh.html http://searchgurbani.com/guru_granth_sahib/ang/1114

I do not blame if u call our guru bible while other religious books r treated like books as it contains fiction storeies but Guru Granth Shiab is guru its words r guru words gurshabad if u listen to it in open mind even u may not be knowing gurbani u will understand it.Second concept is Guru Panth it is khalsa panth represented by Panch piaras,we have great sikhs like Bhai Taru Singh ji ,mANI sINGH JI WHO GAVEUP THEIR LIVES LIKE TRUE SIKHS.DOES RADHASOAMI SOCALLED GURU HAS GUTS TO GET HIS SKULL SEPERATED LIKE TARU SINGHJI .He is busy diverting river water to his dera in beas making farmers poor of 80 villages poor and homeless by encroaching on their lands what kind of guru u call him.

I still dont understand that when Sri Akal Takht Sahib declared Bhai Balwant Singh Rajoana as JINDA SHAHEED what right does BJP have on calling him a terrorist? I guess BJP is still following the footsteps of Indra Gandhi who labelled Sant Bhindranwale a terrorist.. India must really hate Sikhs cuz they love to discriminate against Sikhs...

BJP leader advani very proudly says it was under bjp pressure that Indira gandhi had attacked Darbar sahib. The BJP and Congress both are enemies of the Sikhs. It's a shame akali dal is in alliance with bjp. Who cares what bjp or congress think. This is an internal Sikh affair. Non Sikh interference is not required.

BJP activists awaiting banners to begin their protests against the memorial...scroll down...

I'm afraid I'm not cool or knowledgeable enough to know the various top tier raagis, so I can only post what pulls at my heart strings. ^^^ The tabla player with Bhai Dalbir Singh is an absolute legend. He is getting notes from the tabla that I've never heard in my life. :respect: ^^^ The above shabad carries a lot of personal resonance for me. I can't listen to all of it as it makes me very emotional. I have a recording of some Qawwali singers singing Gurbani (Aise Gur Ko Bal Bal Jayie) - Is it okay to post that? EDIT: Here it is below:

http://www.sikhee.com/audio/Kirtan/Bhai%20Avtar%20Singh/A-G/gaiye%20gun%20gopal%20kirpa%20nidh%20%28kanra%2C%20chartal%29.mp3

Is the anxiety problem sorted? If not, you know what you need to do. Best not to overwhelm yourself with thoughts of what could've been. Can't change the past, you know that. You can affect the future though. It isn't over until the fat lady sings - there's 80 year old men and women doing degrees. Don't give up. I know exactly what you're experiencing. I won't turn all 'Jehova's Witness' and start telling you to begin praying, but our faith (Sikhi) helped me and gave my life some structure and some discipline at a time when I had nothing. If that is something that at all interests you it's an option you could explore. Other than that keep your head up. Trust me, others have it a lot worse and they really do. Everytime I was told this little gem it would anger me so much but it's true. I presume you live in a Western country? You've a roof over your head, 3 square meals, a relative amount of freedom? These are things to be cherished.

I agree. Whilst the government has its nefarious policies, they also aren't going around pouring alcohol down the throats of those who consume it. A large proportion of the blame lies with those who cannot stop drinking.

I think its a cop out to keep blaming govt for state of Punjab.. Indian sarkar were numpties goin back forever.. the greedy/passive/tribal Sikhs/leadership is more to blame imo.. Rajoana issue could have made a difference if sikhs had the media/leaders to take advantage, y aren't the leaders give us actions ?? One two weeks of demanding rajoana is installed as jathedar n that's it?? Our babeh need to get their asses off the fence n start being proactive in anti corruption movements.. how about we have a whip round and outbid Badal and get dhuma on the payroll!

I agree. The government isn't force-feeding drugs and alcohol to anyone, they aren't forcibly cutting anyone's kesh, they aren't forcibly stopping anyone from going to Gurughars or to Keertan Samagams or to Amrit Sanchars. If they are attacking our psyche, its time to cement it and respond by doing what Gurmat and Gurbani asks us to do, not what sarkaar wants.

With all due respect to my brothers & sisters, I think we really need to rise above blaming government for all bad things that happen in Punjab. In my opinion, nobody is to blame but the people of punjab itself. Our people is more at fault here rather than any government. Government officials only mission is to make money out of everything/anything.