Leaderboard

There needs to be a deeper study of the background of this event as we simultaneously substitute ourselves in this situation. Firstly, the person who the FBI has finally tracked down as the main perpetrator is an Egyptian Coptic Christian (and not an Israeli Jew). These are among the largest Arab Christian group in the Middle East, upto 10% of the Egyptian population who are regularly persecuted by the Muslims there. Now, no community has been persecuted by the Sikhs in the past or present and I doubt it will ever happen in future. Sikhs are a minority, but even if we were a majority and in power, our Gurmat principles forbid us to oppress anyone. Secondly, this video was made by someone who hates Hazrat Muhammad Sahib based on his knowledge of their history and teachings. Our Guru Sahibaan didn't practice or preach oppression towards non-Sikhs, in fact quite contrary to it they stood up for their rights and made unimaginable sacrifices. Anyone who merely reads Their history would know it, therefore the chances of someone feeling any sort of animosity towards the personality of Guru Sahib are very grim, no matter even if they didn't fully agree with Their teachings. Thirdly, wherever Sikhs have gone, they have been a contributing segment of that country's society, be it economically, politically, socially etc. Muslims (not all) haven't really created that sort of a positive image in Western society yet, sorry to say. This further gives birth to the notion that the community is a menace and so such cheap attempts will be made by haters to degrade them. Fourthly, we need to be clear about our political past. Sikh freedom struggle (also called militancy) can never be compared to Islamic extremism. The Jujharoo Singhs never targeted an entire community. Whoever they targeted, it wasn't just because the person was non-Sikh but because he was a tyrant. They didn't take their fight beyond the borders of Punjab or India for that matter. The Air India disaster was a tragedy but it has come to light that it was an act carried out by those who wanted to defame the entire Sikh community abroad. Islamic extremists on the other hand target innocent non-Muslim communities at any part of the planet. This further builds up hate for all Muslims worldwide just because of the actions of a few misled individuals. Fifth and last point is the life and teachings of the Guru Sahibaan, the message of Gurbani and the general Sikh attitude. Anyone who comes across the updesh of Gurbani will always sense that its a universal message of love. I am not sure if the same can be said about what the common non-Muslim knows about Islam. The lifetimes of the Guru Sahibaan further add to the priceless teachings of Gurmat which is again reflective of universal love. On the other hand you have the Hadith which gives the world a different opinion about Hazrat Muhammad Sahib. Sikhs welcome everyone to the Gurdwara Sahib but non-Muslims (per Islamic principle) cannot enter a mosque, which again makes us a community more open to outsiders. I personally doubt that a Hindu or even a Muslim would make such a video on Guru Sahib no matter how much he/she hates Sikhs, because the lives and teachings of Guru Sahib would make him/her think a million times about how much love and compassion Guru Sahib had for all of humanity. So lets be definite about one thing, people don't really have a whole lot to hate us for. Whether its our history, philosophy, politics or just our general social set up. In the case of Muslims its a totally different story. Vaheguru forbid, if anyone ever dares to make such a video, Sikhs will be wise enough to realize that any violent step taken by them will only tarnish their image worldwide. I remember watching the video of a gora who committed a hate crime against a Sikh and was given punishment to perform community service at a Gurughar. Later on he came on the Gurdwara stage, apologized for his misdeed, and expressed how delighted he was to have now come across Sikhs and Gurmat updesh. Very recently another gori bibi apologized for having thrown away some Sikh-related pamphlets at a store. So pyaareyo, we are such a loving qaum that no matter how much bad someone does to us, if it is done out of misinformation, we have a heart big enough to forgive and educate, thereby bringing the other person on their knees and asking for forgiveness. That is something massive! Yes, we also kill, but we kill the hate in the person's mind, not the person itself. There are several other such examples. Having said all that, it still doesn't give anyone the right to hurt/offend anyone's religious sentiments, and I hope and pray that (1.) Sikhs don't have to go through such a painful experience, and (2.) Sikhs don't react in this manner. Just my opinions. Please feel free to correct me. Thanks

I agree with the general sentiment that under similar circumstances we, as a community, should exercise restraint. That being said, we also have to face up to the fact that compared to the past we are infinitely more passive as a community today. I disagree with veer Mehtab's notion that generally no attempts to ridicule our Guru's would be made on the strength of our communities reputation. We've all seen 'pi55 taking' videos put up on youtube from time to time. And it doesn't take much for someone to do this. Some people actually think it is hilarious to offend people's sensitivities like this and would do it for no other reason than a laugh! These days I try to restrain myself from judging angry Muslim reactions to perceived attacks on their faith from westerners. Let's be frank, white Europe and Islam have been at it for a long time now. And although I'm not particularly sympathetic towards, or even remotely any kind of admirer of Islam, I can understand why they take 'robust' measures to try and dissuade western sources from attacking their faith in this way. Truth is, our lot would probably do similar if they had the numbers and courage - but we don't - and that is a whole other issue in itself. If people read Orientalism by Edward Said they'd get an idea of the longstanding animosity by western media (formerly in print but now emerging in film) towards Islam/Arabs. To me sometimes elements of the white west seem to behave like a very devious older brother who periodically agitates and irritates his younger more emotional brother in a way that has him react loudly and angrily (knowing full well that he will!) and then stepping back as if he was innocent, when the younger brother has thrown an angry fit and smashed up the room. The problem with this is that it actually helps push Muslims on the periphery into extreme action and bolsters the organised/committed extremists. If we look at it from a historical perspective, the west, through their dubious political maneuvers (historically and in the recent past), have played as much a part in stimulating Islamic fundamentalism as any mullahs have. I guess if we ever got important and powerful enough to pose a challenge to the west (which we most certainly aren't today) our own Guru's/faith may well be under attack too!! But thankfully at the moment we've only got fruit and veg in our homeland and not oil, so we are safe for the moment. Look at what rubbish Ernest Trumph wrote about Sikhi just after the Anglo-Sikh wars for an example of our own faith being ridiculed and attacked in the past, when we were a potential threat.

Thought this was a really good article. Waheguru.

Peaceful protests with unified educational campaigns. Sadly, I'm more cynical of what would happen though. Especially with anti-Panthic agencies like that numbskull from Delhi (Akali Dal International) RSS/Congress guy. No joke, I thought the same thing before reading what you posted. Great minds think alike! lol

After some deep thought, I would personally react opposite of what film maker intend or anticipate reaction wanted to be.... director outcome mission should be failed as most of time its intended to invoke an violent reaction to make other party look like fanatics or extremist...!!...It's complex chess game..!!..we have to go with the flow on international stage and media..!!

paaji Consciousness, all do respect but how can you say dusht daman was not "guru".....bachitar natak states that he(guru gobind singh ) was in anand with the lotus feet of akaal purkh.. was one with parmatma when parmatama wanted dusht daman to play the natak of guru gobind singh ji..dusht daman did not want to as he was full with anand of his oneness with the almighty but could not refuse such a service... what a atma/jeevan must one have for akaal purkh to request to perform a service.... dont get in this paranoia that pad ched are fake and larivaar is real (it is original no doubt and should be promoted so to speak).. /sant jarnail singh/ gurbachan singh/ nihang dals/nirmala dals/sevapathi dals.....their santhiya is is pad ched saroop of maharaj paji, a bhram gyani can get his vidiya from larivaar or pad ched.. the ego believes his method is best.. also paji how can pad ched be a translation of larivaar when its just the exact same thing with gaps..... paji be honest as you seem a well educated being on larivaar and are very passionate about it,, could you tell who is reciting larivaar and pad ched from two different granthis who are well versed in gurbani.....

^^^ Good idea! We need to follow the American Presidential model in that respect, by this I mean only giving incumbents a limited period so that fresh blood comes in after x amount of years. You know our lot, once they get it, you have to murder them to get them out.

Don't listen to people if they don't know the whole situation. Given if it was an accident, then you should forgive him as Sikhs are humble and aren't blindly proud of their own identity, but instead honor and actions that define the identity. If it was on purpose, get a few Sikh friends and approach him saying you want to talk to him in a a respectful but firm manner and say you want to clear up what happened that day to ensure it doesn't happen again. If it was on accident, falling of the dastar during sports activities is unpleasant and should be avoided, but if it happens despite all precautions you've taken then what can you do?

I was wondering for sadsangats views on this. Mods, please keep this open as long as possible. sadsangat please refrain from personal attacks. - When a person takes amrit, should they judge on kamayi of the panj. As someone said to me a long time ago that were to take amrit, you must decide by seeing the life and how much kamayi from the panj. I took amrit when I was 9 years old in India. But I was too young then, and did not know much, i took because my family was all gursikh and my father would teach us and took all my brothers and sisters to take amrit when they were over 8. When I moved from India and got knowledge of rehats and sikhi by age of 23 I decided to take amrit again properly with my own choice. This time I was told to see the panj pyaras and see if they have a good jivan. I spent a couple of years back in India with family and decided which place to get amrit. But I also followed some of the Singhs in the panj as I knew who was going to be in there because I asked local gursikhs who already took amrit from this place. Mainly, I followed the jathedar. I tried to keep my distance from him and see how he lived. He would walk around in the baranda outside near the Gurdwara and I saw him doing simran with mala. I remember sitting and watching from far, it became so hot watching and I fell asleep maybe for nearly 1 hour. When I woke, I still saw him there doing simran. I got up from my place and the floor was marble and very hot, i forgot my juthee in front of the gurdwara, the jathedar spotted me in pain and he ran over to me and said 'Baba Jee, meyree juthee lehlo' - as in baba take my shoes. He had sandals and I reluctantly took them, as he looked fine in heat because his feet were pakhay.I got my shoes and then gave his back. I then went to darbar and cried in front of guroo ji because I realised where I was to take amrit. - That above is short of my story. But my point was that I felt that their kamayi still runs through me. I dont know! Since then it has been many years, i felt the benefits of this. Because I know some panj may not have as much kamayi (sorry i cant think of a nice way to put this), but then when in panj will they be able to be Guru Gobind Singh? who did so much kamayi as dusht daman, many yugs. So how can this be. Should we think about panj kamayi before we chose where to take this amrit? Daasan Daas, Mothi

Sikhchic is not usually my cup of tea, but I felt this piece here is spot on in many ways. Please read and share your thoughts. Personally, I'm sick of myopic, petty 'leaders' who can't think big myself. An Open Letter to Sikh Council UK... And to All Others Who Wish to Lead or Represent The Sikh Community T. SHER SINGH DAILY FIX Sunday, September 9, 2012 Dear Members & Supporters of the “Sikh Council UK”: I’ve been following the dialogue triggered by the excellent article by S. Gurmukh Singh on your Council, which was posted on sikhchic.com recently, and wish to address some of the issues raised therein. I want to begin by saying that I laud the goals and objectives stated by the Council as theirs, and agree that such an organization is sorely needed in every nation where Sikhs reside today. There is nothing more or better I would like to see in this context than to have such an organization succeed and be off and running forthwith. It is with these sentiments uppermost in my mind that I’ve penned the following thoughts for your consideration. They aren’t organized … they’ve been precipitated by the back-and-forth I’ve observed through the comments posted on S. Gurmukh Singh ji’s article. Also, a caveat! I do not present them to you as tablets brought down from the Mount. Please feel free to reject them at will, some or all of them. I have no vested interest in any of them, other than the intense desire to see organizations such as yours flourish. All I ask for, however, is that you give these points some sober and quiet, independent and objective thought, that’s all. Flay me, if you will, for things you think I am wrong in, but first, please ruminate on them long and hard before you decide to put me on the rack. 1 Your Council aspires to be an umbrella organization that represents not only all Sikh-Britons but all Sikh-Brit organizations. In other words, you aim to be our collective best-foot-forward. That requires you, I would suggest, to inculcate our credal principles and enshrine our fundamental values in both form and substance, before you step out into the sunlight. These are principles which you begin with, not aim to end up with. It is not good enough to say that you have posted them in your constitution, if they remain nowhere to be seen in practice. 2 You want to be an umbrella organization. Therefore, you have to convince the community that you represent ALL its constituent elements. Not by saying you do, but by actually doing it. 3 Your organization’s public face is represented by your Board of Jathedars. Without knowing too much about them or more than what you and your representatives have revealed so far, my reading is that they represent no more than 5% of the community. Probably far less … you’ll see what I mean, in a few minutes. But let’s me explain briefly by starting the arithmetic: You have no women on the Board. That means it represents no more than 50% of all Sikh-Britons. You have no representation of those who are not keshadhari. That reduces the percentage further: it means your Board represents no more 10 - 25% of all Sikh-Britons. You yourself state that all on the Board have to be amritdhari. That, I’m afraid, reduces the figure further, to the point that, I would guess, your Board represents no more than 5% of all Sikh-Britons. I could go on further, but I’ll let you do the full arithmetic, once you‘ve read the rest of this letter. Now, you might say that you simply cannot have a representative of every constituency on your Board, that it is a logistical impossibility. True. But not being able to represent all is no excuse to represent none. You have 16 members on your Board. That’s an unusually large group and there is no reason why you cannot have all major constituencies represented, if you insist on having 16 of them. 4 It is no use telling us that this Board has no power. First of all, that in itself rings alarm bells. It means that they are a mere front, a façade, and that the real ’power’ resides in a secret clique. Why do I say ’secret’? Because your site is coy about disclosing any information about any other player. That means it’s secret. Some of the correspondents have let out a trickle of information, a name here, a name there, of persons involved with the Council. Why not put all the info, in great detail, on the site itself? When you don’t, it suggests only one thing: you’re hiding something, or that you have an agenda you do not wish to disclose. You shouldn’t be surprised over the scepticism expressed by some of the readers. I am surprised that you are. 5 CONSTITUENCIES: Let me explain in greater detail what I mean by this term. A caveat, though, before I start. I’ll be stating things that need to be done that are crass and embarrassing. But they need to be done. The fact that all our institutions routinely do not do them makes it necessary for me to spell some of them out in crude terms. If you observe the steps properly, they’ll become redundant and can be relegated to the garbage-heap of history. 5A First and foremost, all of your senior levels - executive, honorary, advisory, administrative, voluntary or paid - must consist of 50% women. I was shocked to hear one of the commentators say that you can’t find competent women. Are you kidding? I suggest that the reality today is quite the opposite. It is far more easy to find educated, sophisticated, mature, level-headed women in our community than men, I can tell you from my world-wide experience in the last 40 years. For heaven’s sake, there’s a Sikh woman, Nikki Haley, who is being touted to run for President of the Unites States of America in 2016. Yes, it’s true: she doesn’t call herself Sikh anymore. You know why? Because we as a community have denied our women a seat at the table, and simply will not let them participate fully in the running of our community affairs, that's why. It takes me 5 seconds to come up with a handful of names of women who could lead us out of the mess we are in. You, with more time and resources, should have no difficulty in finding a whole army of them. The Singh Twins in your own back-yard: Amrit and Rabindra Kaur Singh. Valarie Kaur. Mallika Kaur, Gunisha Kaur … Please, please, please do not ever insult our women - and our community the world over - by ever repeating the fallacy that we don’t have enough competent women amongst us. So, the first thing you do if you want to be given the mandate to represent the community is to bring in, not a token woman, or a few, but 50% of your key personnel. If you go by merit alone, I suspect you’ll find it easier to find the right women rather than the right men, believe me. 5B The next major fault-line you need to address is over ‘keshadhari’ and ‘non-keshadhari’ Sikhs. We simply cannot evade responsibility for all the neglect and negligence we have contributed to as a community to date. The fact is that all our problems today are the direct products of our failure to meet the needs of the community until now, including in the present continuum. These problems won’t go away by sheer denial. We need to face them “like a man” - as the expression of yore goes. That is, headlong. The fact of life is that a substantial portion of our community is no longer keshadhari. They are still Sikhs and they MUST be included in all that we do, especially as we move forward bravely into our future. Just as merely being keshadhari is no qualification to run an organization, merely being a non-keshadhari Sikh shouldn’t automatically disqualify you, if you meet the other criteria. If you keep on discarding those who don’t meet your high standards, you’ll soon find yourself standing alone. Every level of decision-making, not to mention the actual delivery of services, MUST include the non-keshadhari half of our community, with no ifs and buts. The only exceptions I would agree with wholeheartedly is, a) we never move away from, or dilute the ideals and goals as enunciated in the Guru Granth Sahib and the Rehat Maryada, and b) the organization should be led at the top by the very crème de la crème of our community - educated, sophisticated, articulate, smart, honest, clean men and women who are also amritdhari. But, remember, the last criterion is not to replace the rest: it is only one of the pre-requisites! 5C I feel ashamed for having to address the next fault-line in our community, but I feel compelled to, because it plagues us like a cancer. Caste. The Hindu practice of caste has crept into the most uneducated, unsophisticated or naïve segments of our population, and which is now being passed on to the younger generations as inherited givens. Our young, though free of the ignorance and superstition that burdened some of us in the past, are not equipped to question what they’ve been born into. Hence, all the more reason our institutions need to make sure they do not side-step this issue. It is central to being a Sikh, not a tangential issue. Certainly, our institutions must correct their own practices before they open their doors, not list it as one of the many goals they wish to address in the unknown future. It is obvious that your Council is not only cognizant of this issue but has bravely taken it on, headlong. I’m impressed that in your list of Board of Directors, not one has demeaned himself by appending a silly caste name. But I do note that many of your apologists - some of them are your most articulate voices - do continue to sport caste names. Not a good idea, if you are out to transform our community for the better and to put our best foot forward. I must hasten to add that their usage of these demeaning appendages may be innocent, that many have merely inherited them. Not a problem. The Council must begin by educating its own members, workers and volunteers as to the origin and import of caste-name usage and apprise them of the fact that Hindu society historically required its lower castes to always identify themselves with these last names. That once we are Sikh, we’ve all been promoted to the highest, most esteemed and honourable level known to man. No longer do you need to display your “low-caste” antecedents because you now belong to a community where all are equal. So, here’s where I’m going: Our community is divided into these silly groupings of jutt and khuttri, ramgharia and bhatra, sodhi and bedi. Certainly, there is a major divide between jutts and non-jutts - (as I stated earlier, I apologise for this crass and crude discussion, but I need to bring it forward because no one else will.) So, if you, the Sikh Council, want to be an umbrella organization and represent all Sikh-Britons, you must ensure that your group of decision-makers - certainly your Board of Jathedars - must have a balanced number of jutts and non-jutts. BUT - you have to do it with finesse and show some class in doing it. No appointment or selection should be such that it represents, or is designated, as a caste constituency. It must be done quietly, privately, so that the result is achieved, but not through creating any acrimony. The test will be that no one should be able to point to your Council ever and scoff it off as a ’khuttri-dominated”, or a “jutt-run” group. Achieve this, and you’ll be well on your way to being a true umbrella organization. Don’t do it, and you’re dead in the water. 5D There are other constituencies, other fault-lines. None, like those above, need to be written down as requirements in the constitution. The mere reference to any of them demeans us - just as I feel unclean even talking about them. What we need is a handful of elders - the real wise and enlightened ones - to keep and eye on the configuration of each board, each committee, to make sure that things never go askew. - Just as it is important to represent 2nd and 3rd generation Sikh-Britons, it is equally important for you to consciously include the 1st generation … especially those who have recently got off the boat. - The young must be liberally represented. Not only as volunteers, but also in the decision-making and policy levels. - We need professionals, but the unlettered ones have an equal say in Sikhdom. Having a group running the show, consisting only of professionals or degree-holders is as bad as having only the uneducated ones at the helm, as many gurdwaras do today. Lawyers, for example, are fundamental to the success of this organization, but taxi-drivers, for example, are no less important and need to be heard. - You in the UK know best your other fault-lines. For example, and I may be wrong, you may want to make sure there is no pre-dominance of Londoners, and that even smaller or rural or remote communities are at the table, not as tokens but as equal players. How about Scotland and Wales and Northern Ireland, as opposed to England? 6 Moving on to other essentials: I am in total agreement with those who point to the absolute necessity for ALL senior members to be really well articulate in both written and spoken English. Not just street English, but top-notch language skills. Some of you may have followed the American political conventions held in Tampa and Charlotte during the last two weeks. Notice the Hispanic representatives? Notice how they were the best orators? How they spoke even better than their “mainstream” counterparts? Guess what? They were so good that everyone everywhere has been citing some of them as possible contenders to run for President of the country in the future. Obama became President against super-human odds, not because of his good looks. Check out google and all that’s been written about his language skills! Use that as the bench-mark. No, don’t give me sermons on how important it is to know Punjabi and to promote it. Let’s not get silly: I’m not asking that people write and speak English and ignore Punjabi. They need to do it all. Notice how the Hispanic delegates in Tampa and Charlotte spoke perfect English and spoke perfect Spanish? It’s as simple as that. If you don’t realize the importance of this issue, you might as well go home and concentrate on your day jobs and forget about representing the community. Please, please, please. 7 You need some paid staff. A paid Executive Director. Who has an MBA and a law degree. He/she must not be a relative of anyone on any board or committee of the Council. He/she should be paid well - if possible, higher than the market rate. You need to give her (I’ll stick to one gender from now on) a well-paid and competent staff. They must have a professional office, far from any gurdwara premises, if you know what I mean. You claim to have so many institutional members. Well, prove it! If they are your true members, you should have lots of money in your coffers to do this. If you don’t, then you are but a shell and are going nowhere in a hurry. * * * * * I could go on and on, but I won’t. If you take all of the steps I’ve listed above - and who knows, you may already have - you’ll be able to figure out the rest on your own. I have no personal or vested interest in any of the organizations - yours or any others - but I would give an arm and a leg to see you be successful, trust me. I know none of the players personally, and have no bias for or against. More importantly, if you don’t like any or all that I‘ve had to say, don’t label me your enemy, as you have hastily done with all those who have asked difficult questions arising from S. Gurmukh Singh ji’s article. It may be true that they have vested interests in opposing you. But you are your own worst enemy if you don’t answer the questions fully and honestly, those that have been asked and those that will always be asked as long as you stand in public life. So far, I notice that you haven’t answered the questions, and not provided the information being sought. Information that you should have posted on the very first day you went public. Transparency is indeed difficult, but nothing is worse than keeping things in the dark - there is no future in it. Finally, I wish you Godspeed.

why don't you keep a shastar near you? or keep bani near you. why are you scared? if you read/listen to bani nothing can go into your room.

I used to be told to put glass of water too, near me when sleeping, dont know why, or if it worked, but something worked, I say its gurbani that worked. Dont even know why the glass the water is put there?

their kamai helps. but remember, the punj are not the guru, they are the Guru's ROOP (form). By remembering this we see that there is no contradiction.

True but do you know who you really are? If you do then you can do whatever you want but until then all rehats are a must.

I just got Inception on the strength of certain people's comments.... It'd better be good!!

Thanks for your clarification Bijla Singh. But looking at the grand scheme of things- tat gyan, it does not matter if its pad ched or larivar just like it does not matter if kirtan done in raags or not once we look at the grand scheme of things tat gyan so we need to move on- preserve and promote the lost tradition but move on- don't spend time arguing on it for those who claim it was pad ched saroop are fake are taking things to extreme it was same pad ched saroop of sri guru granth sahib ji- baba nand singh maharaj got sri guru nanak dev nirankar darshan from..it all comes down to pyaar and sharda and on top of that remember we are nirgun shabad upasakhs..!! I think the reason this issue format issue became quite heated all because- bhai sahib/sant ji said so..if there was real concern about lost traditions, same amount of dedication/efforts would have put fwd equally towards preserving kirtan done in raags- gurmat raag vidya, sikh heritage...!! But since bhai sahib ji/sant ji didn't write anything about it..oh well its not my issue..!!!!!! Pretty tribal and cultish if you ask me, its not one group, pretty much same crap all across the board..!! So lets try to have a balance here guys..!! ...lets focus on all lost traditions in the panth than being cultish/fanatic about only one..!!

It is written in early Sikh history books that while compiling Aad Guru Granth Sahib, Guru Sahib called bhagats from Sachkhand to recite their Bani for inclusion. I think the early Sikhs must have been curious to find out how Bhagat Bani was included and verified for authenticity when some bhagats lived centuries before 1469. So they came up with this explanation. It eliminates any questions of bani collection and authenticity because bhagats themselves spoke their bani and Bhai Gurdas Ji wrote it. This remained the widely accepted explanation until early 19th century. When Sikhs started to write history on western lines, they sought an empirical explanation. Bunch of theories were put forth by different scholars. At the same time Bhasaurs were attacking Bhagat Bani. Prof. Sahib Singh’s arguments in defense of Bhagat Bani are revolutionary but to say that Guru Sahib collected bani of bhagats who lived hundreds of years before Guru Sahib is the most unsound argument in my opinion. As more research was done, it was found that all bhagats were contemporaries of Guru Sahib. Guru Rakha

Agree with Mehtab Singh, it needs to be more coordinated though. We need to organise and coordinate better. What we need is a small organisation (not another one!) who can coordinate. We have a network of people across the land(s) who can be directed to Facebook, Twitter, YouTube etc and they can then set up opposing views/information to tackle misinformation/lies. It needs to be a concerted effort and not just rely in individuals. Get together and organise. Sangat volunteer and their emails taken down. Create a network. The organising group need to trowel the net and direct the network of sangat adn then the sangat get to work to re-buff the lies. The Jewish community do this, as soon as any hint of anti-semitism is seen anywhere in the media they are on them like a ton of bricks, and they have big organisation and big money behind them, no one dare say anything against them, we should take notice and follow.

YouTube has an option called "response to video". Make responsive videos condemning the one made and educate the masses about reality. Off late I've realized that its best to use the weapons of your enemies against them, which mostly applies to the media. I am not sure how many of you have been reading user comments under the news articles about the Wisconsin Gurdwara incident. You have enough Hindus highlighting Sikh Jujharoos as terrorists and trying to put forward the notion that "Sikhs are as bad as Muslims". I say we use this negative publicity as well and highlight what the Indian government did to us in 1984. Thats the point I am trying to make, we need to turn the tables and use our enemy's weapons against them. If they use YouTube to degrade Sikhi, we use it to glorify it. If they use Facebook, Twitter, or whatever, use it to respond to them without stooping to their level by using insults/swears but by providing factual evidences. The only way to shut such people up is slap them with the truth. If they continue to moan and whine, then quit arguing because their IQ isn't worth it and they'e already proved themselves to be fools. But until then, keep up the fight with the pen, use knowledge as your deadliest weapon and use their weapons (YouTube, Facebook etc.) against them, not to harm, but to educate or shut them up. This will show the world that violence is not our way (unless we're pushed with our backs against the wall), rather we're sane and wise enough to fight fiction/myth with facts. We don't set fire to embassies, we burn ignorance at its root and the world needs to see that.

Hated that sketch due to pic of our Guru there.

paaji, play any paat on low volume while you sleep also put a glass of water next to your bed.....pani pita (protector).. if you can recite sohila paat with rakia de shabad this is best..

Vahiguroo, my Guru is Gurbani. That is it.

Are you serious? If he and you both know it was an accident, then there is no real need to apologize, much less "drop him" (assuming that means the same thing in UK as it does here). Anyway you should have expected that i you are playing rugby in pagh. Next time tie a patka with a scrum cap on top

Singh or Singhnee.. I'm guessing you are a Singh if you play rugby.. there is nothing to be embarrassed about! Things as such happen and I am sure this has happened to many people right here on this forum.. Stay confident and strong. There is a lot of stubborn, ignorant people in this world and we must learn to rise above that. Even if this guy doesn't apologise then just ignore it, act normal around him. By your normality he will then to begin to question his own actions. When you return to school walk with your head held high then other students will realise that your absence wasn't due to intimidation... Hope this was of some help... Stay Chardi Kala Gurmukh Pyareo!.... :happy2:

This is a very serious post. I think as a Sikh, you should be proud of your pag. He has not apologised yet, but when you go back, just ask him if he meant it, if he says its an accident, then ask him if you are cool or not. hopefully he will say he is cool. If not, then you might need to knock his block off lol Question yourself, are you like this? How sad and embarrassing this is, no respect or honour in having your pag/crown removed. Is your pag this easy to take off? If it is, you should be wearing a dumalla as they are much more tight. Or do you want to be a sher and be a proud Sikh like this Gurmukh below. Amazing courage and Sikhi saroop of Dasam Pitha. Please keep sadsangat update with your issue

What do you expect? Most western countries are not actual countries but multi-national corporations which would prefer business deals over human rights issues of minorities in India which they consider- tribal issues from tribal people. We are naive to assume countries like- US, CANADA, UK do not know human rights violations happening in INDIA, CHINA, RUSSIA. They know all that, they just don't care- passing statement from time to time of human rights violations its all strategy of being politically correct- to look good infront of UN/international stage, some of it its strategy of proxy war happening between these countries on high level, it be extremely naive to think they genuinely care. Just picture yourself as representing big pool of corporations name- USA, CANADA OR UK, if during business dealing with India which happens every day, small group in india brings human rights issue to plate, are we really naive to think- big corporations will kill their business dealing with India by putting pressure on India.?? When I wear evil goggles of big corporation working out business deal with India and see small group of people protesting be it - kashmiri, sikhs, muslims, christians- i only see tribal group are bickering and i ignore them or pass small universal "human rights statement" hoping these tribal groups go away. I used to think captalism is something to do with conservatives only but its cycle liberals or ndp parties would be part of it in Canada as well after one gives deep thoughts, its all same crap- minorities suffer in hands of powerful countries like- India, china, Russia.. CSIS know all the human right abuses in punjab/delhi how culprits are roaming free , how GOI tries its best to demonize sikhs in Canada, even know who are real culprits behind air india bombing which is GOI but they still refuse to do anything? Why? Because it does not matter at the end of day as long as business deals are made with India- super power in asia on daily basis and as long as its business as usual- human rights does not matter..!! So response by balpreet singh was good but lets try spending more energy towards awareness of sikh religion instead of dwelling and begging infront of huge transnational corporations like US, CANADA, UK to put pressure on India human right abuses..its not going to happen, surely may get sweet talk from mps of all different parties in election time but on a bigger picture, nothing is going to happen..i.e- pressure in UN, sanctions etc..!! For me khalistan or khalsa raj is not limited to banners or placards. The actual khalsa raj or khalistan is when each sikh born becomes khalsa of sri guru gobind singh ji maharaj to serve humanity, nature and stand up against injustice..!!!

I will try to find some time to type the quotes. Farid Ji learned Persian and Arabic and this is why he could not compose anything in a foreign language (Punjabi) without praising Mohammad and Islam. Farid Saani Ji uses non-Islamic words like Gur, Saadh and Prabh. All Muslim sufis use the word Murshid but not Gur. There are different reasons for different bhagats. Some common reasons are usage of Punjabi language and many words are same as that of the rest of Gurbani. Even the grammar of bhagat bani is of the same time period. Gurbani grammar of the 9th Guru’s Bani is a little different due to difference of 60 years or so. Language changes over time. Had bhagats like Farid Ji, Kabir Ji, Namdev Ji, Jaidev Ji and Ramanand Ji been born centuries before 1469 then their language would’ve been much different. Their concepts on ideal human being, God etc. are same as Gurmat. They use Punjabi alphabets as used in Punjabi. For example, Kabir Ji uses Kakka, Khakha, Gagga etc. instead of K, Kh, G as used in Hindi. Bani of bhagats itself has similar words which points towards them being contemporaries. For example, Kabir Ji has Aarti Shabad and so does Bhagat Ravidas Ji. Bhagat Dhanna Ji has that as well. Patti Bani of Kabir Ji is similar to Guru Sahib’s Bani. Most importantly, they emphasize on adopting Satguru to obtain Naam. In Gurbani and Vaars no one but Guru Nanak Sahib is Satguru. No human is praised as a Satguru in Gurbani and no avatar is granted this status. Bhai Veer Singh and Bhai Randhir Singh are firm on this point. Further, Gurbani has unison principles and there exists unity in thought and practice which means Guru Sahib and bhagats cannot be referring to different persons as Satguru otherwise there lies a contradiction and varied teachings. Bhai Randhir Singh has discussed features and traits of Satguru very elaborately in his books. There are historical proofs in Sikh and non-Sikh sources that all the bhagats met Guru Sahib. Some bhagats were contemporaries of the 3rd Guru. Finally, Guru Sahib’s own testimony in Gurbani is the clearest proof that all bhagats were blessed by Satguru who according to Gurbani is always one, has been and ever will be. There was an article posted on this site about 6 years ago proving Bhagat Farid Ji being a Sikh of Guru Sahib. You will have to search for it. If I find a copy on my computer, I will post it. Guru Rakha

This is a joke. Bani is bani. Guru Granth Sahib Ji is Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Bani is bani. May bani be on your phone, computer, in your heart, or inside the 11th Guru. Daas believes that nearly everybody respects Guru Ji as kindly do not slander my Guru by saying saroop is not larivaar etc. No one makes the Guru. They become visible themself just like the Khalsa was never made, it became visible. "Pargat" is the word to be precise. Guru Ji exists as they please and will continue to do so and they know that people will not be able to read larivaar saroop so may be they have become visible in today's form. But daas does not know on this as onyl Guru Ji knows. Do ardaas and take a hukamnama.

So what do you do when you go to Gurdwara, first check Guru Ji's saroop and if it is not to your liking you walk away ?

There is only God and no other. The word Satguru is a synonym for God. So if there is only God find out who 'you' are that thinks that they are separate from God. Then you'll find out that there was never any getting to God because there never was a you. Find out who is seeking. Who are you?

"You've got The Shinning, lad!". :biggrin2:

1) TOY STORY 1 2) TOY STORY 2 3) TOY STORY 3 4) FINDING NEMO 5) CHICKEN RUN

Eloo! Gurfateh Rom-rom Simran is something that is exhibited, or displayed. Meaning that, it is seen in individuals and experienced by them, only when inner feelings and workings are aligned. Which is why we are told to ‘go inwards’ for our bhagti and naam simran. Once our surti is steady, and ‘tik-ed’ (stable / at peace / at one with naam simran), we start to feel at peace. Then we carry on with the naam simran train to god. Then, u feel a click. Some people experience this click slowly, others, it’s literally a click. This click is what bani talks as a teer to your heart. But its not heart, its hirda.. (some people say, where’s the hirda?.., its 10 finger widths down, from where u speak from. Aka, near enough your chest. In sidh gorst, >tre sat angul vaaee keheeai<.) so this teer that u experience, will have been experienced throughout your naam simran stages that u climb. So..., imagine a druggie. He hears bani, it hits him. Then he thinks to change his ways. Then, he does naam simran. Then few months down the line, it hits him again, and he starts to take active roles in learning bani, and keertan and so on.. in naam simran, the teer will hit, and overcome you. This is where the so called ‘bani / naam simran shakti’ comes from. (jus to say also, bani has come from naam). So ur feeling the naam. Then u ‘go quiet’ as most people say. (cuz ur simran is going into urself – so its very key to be able to comtrol this and not speak during this process etc..) Then, with the sutra tik-ed, naam simran overcomes your body. And ur hair stands up in waves, as described by people. Guru naanak dev ji sez in jupji sahib, let each hair on my body, become a tongue. There are 50 billion, Billion, hairs on average human body. So, when u say 1 waheguru, your entire body will vibrate with that, to turn it into the ‘fal’ (fruits) of saying waheguru 50 billionbillion times. When u get to these levels, u move away from the notion, that naam is a word. Then u get into the viewpoint that naam is something else entirely, and the ‘word’ as such, is a means to realise naam. Then, bout 2-3months later, u will start slipping into the sunn reality. (Note: all timelines that iv sed, are on the assumption that u do simran everyday). Guru ji has given us tools to do naam simran, however, some of these need to be unlocked. We have tongue, footsteps, the beat of the heart, hair, surti, etc. All are tools to jup the naam to open the tenth gate, and go onward to the journey to god, to then meet god, and to get the true mukti, to merge with him. Through these tools, we slip into the sunn, where nothing is, aka god, and then we travel to make the journey to him. U don’t need to worry about sunn just yet. U will know when it happens. Swaas swaas simran, and rom rom simran, are near enough, siblings. They come together, >near enough. Science says, the breath is the link from conscious mind to the subconscious mind. They right obviously.. there’s evidence. Same goes for naam simran. Using the breath, ur rom rom simran can be unlocked. Guru ji also said in jupji sahib, that inside the mind, there are jewls, >rattan javaahar maanik<. Also, jus to say, jupji sahib, is amazing to do for ur dasam dwaar. But to feel its power, is also hard and u need effort, aka kamaaee. Some people try focussing on getting this and that going e.g. gota get the rom rom simran going, but, this is the wrong way to do it. Focusing on the shabad, and trueness, is the way, and all will align for the tenth gate to open. Rom rom simran makes u shine. Glow. I wish I was blessed with this gift also. We have been given 5 senses, ontop of this, guru ji has given us gifts in our body. Through which, we are able to climb the levels. And even get the ridh sidh, which is relatively rely low level. Meaning, its not too too hard to get ridh sidh.so.. yh.. U also mentioned about hearing things. This is very high avastha things. Its after ur in the sunn avastha level for a while. Then u start to hear naam. The vibration of god. And no, its not the white noise u hear if ur ear pops! If u do hear that white noise, its good sign, it means ur ears are sorting themselves out to get redy to hear the naad. Aka, the sound. High level stuff. Ppl that hear this, are very close to god, hence, close to themselves. Simply, 1. be patient... you cannot push what cannot be pushed. 2. jup naam with reverence and conviction... strive to success. 3. jup for the love of jupping it... within randomness, is utter beauty. Utter. These are my rules that iv found. All of bani is naam. Take jaap sahib.. Aad – the beginning --> aka, waheguru! Roop – the true saroop --> aka, waheguru! Anaad – never ending --> aka, waheguru! Moorat – the true moorat --> aka, waheguru! Ajorn - akaal --> aka, waheguru! Purakh – sat-purakh --> aka, waheguru! Apaar – totally, nex level --> aka, waheguru! All of bani is naam. Bani comes form naam. And >through naam, we merge into waheguru. We start to see naam everywhere. Then eventually, see god everywhere. We start to see sarab byaapak. And then some.. it goes on.. no point in talking bout it.. although, info is good. And reely does help.. gives some clarity.. etc. Its all about the journey. Not so much the end result. Reward is given to manz that earn it. Else, no reward! God wants us to n-joi ourselves. So..! jup like never before!!!!!! (im not telling u to specifically do anything, its the choice of the individual!. Im pretty sure u will tho ) Happy jupping!! :l: email me if u wana to lemi no how u getting on! or, jus to chat etc.. = / :lalala: :angeljump: :yeehaw:

Here's a humble attempt at translation the opening section of Professor Sahib Singh's preface to his Jaap Sahib teeka. May Waheguru bless his das to continue to learn about the faith and develop his modest linguistic ability. I'd like to thank Laal Singh of sikhwareness.com for looking over the translation and explaining certain colloquial terms and suggesting various improvements. I'm including the original Gurmukhi text for readers. Feel free to post any suggestions for improvements:

Awesome, thanks for this khajana.

Another brilliant translation Veerjeo! Prof. Sahib Singh Ji's writing style is very lucid and that quality reflects beautifully in your translations! Sincerely hope these translations are used by Parcharaks when debating with Darshan and his followers about Sri Dasam Granth Baanis, and about the 1699 Amrit Sanchaar.. Dhanvaad once again!

Some further extracts from Sahib Singh's forward to his steek on Jaap Sahib. Here the Professor shares his views on the formation and spread of Jaap Sahib amongst Sikhs and it's position at the time the Khalsa was inaugerated in 1699 AD. Reasons that lead to misunderstandings of dasmesh pita's bani are also discussed. Thanks again to Laal Singh of Sikhawareness.com for looking over an original draft and making invaluable suggestions to improve the translation. May God kindly grace us with truth, contentment, knowledge and patience. Nothing gets done without your support.