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I don't have a sister or any female relatives, BUT I am quite adept at empathising and placing myself in other people's shoes, and I'll tell you Singh, I'd go nuts if some Sikh guy (Gursikh or not) started going out with someone in my family to "test the waters" for a few years, and then dropped her in the end. Call me old fashioned, but that stuff still doesn't sit right with me. I know what you're saying: there's tonnes of people that do things the "right" way that still end up getting jerked around, but I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water, not at all. As oppressive and hypocritical as Punjabi culture and society can be, I consider it a huge source of sadness when someone's previously stellar reputation is besmirched through an error of judgement, naiveté, or even through no fault of their own. I don't judge non-Sikhs who date - not one iota - cos if it works for them, more power to them. But as Sikhs, nah, we should function and hold ourselves to a higher standard.

Well, I think a lot of that depends on the efforts made by the 'orthodox' to ensure they don't become so insular and distant from the everyday problems and mentalities of their more lost brethren, which is easily done - and has been going on for a while now. I was disgusted with the way some of the more conservative 'orthodox community' (if we want to frame it like that?) turned a blind eye to grooming for instance - haughtily writing it off as the self inflicted outcomes of 'nonSikh' 'Panjabi' girls and guys. I don't see the mullah type sullah indifferent to sulliyan like that, even if they are more secular. Same way we deal with caste, alcoholism etc. etc. On a wider canvas, what you talk about is a big topic that encompasses things like art, literature, preaching, employment, media, film, Gurdwara functioning and the ability of Sikh parcharaks and social sevaks to engender a feeling of commonality and community amongst a diverse population. It's about making Sikhi relevant to people and being aware of what acts as obstacles to this. It will also involve an adult, dispassionate understanding of human behaviour and society too, as well as our own communities peculiarities. But it is also perhaps inevitable to a degree too? I mean how much do those Hollywood Jew corporate bigwigs really relate to some quiet insular orthodox Jew from Stamford Hill? Change is inevitable, as ever, we have to meet it, whether we like it or not. How relevant have we been keeping ourselves ? If we are just happy to be benign, citizens living comfortable, sterile lives - people will leave for the perceived 'greener grass' of more exciting pastures. In the end though brother, we have to keep our head up. Don't ever forget that not long ago, Harmandir Sahib itself was over run and filled with dancing prostitutes complete with hookah smoke billowing about, and Sikhs had to hide themselves in jungles to survive, hunted like dogs. I'm pretty sure they were raping and kidnapping and selling girls back then too (which we've understandably largely written out of our history). If those people could keep their spirits, we should be able to too. From my perspective, I'm seeing lots of resistance to and discussion of our issues that wasn't happening when I was coming up. We have to recognise that.

I don't know. I think people are getting more clued up. It's slow but happening. This separation of genders within our community creates its own issues with gullibility and naivety. With regard to the above specifically. I've now seen a fair few families that followed the so-called 'proper way' in line with our Panjabi culture, only to see their daughters end up in really messy relationships that ultimately didn't last. Having experienced that - the families all of a sudden aren't that fussed with the younger ones dating (or lets say getting to know their prospective partner) prior to marriage. Wonder why that is?

It's the coming peeriya that trouble me, the ones for whom orthodox Sikhi and Sikhs may as well be another distant religion and people, despite both sides sharing the same racial and cultural background.

If that happens, it just means that we've f**ked up as a community. The above has been happening to apneean for years already btw. We've just come to a point where we've made more people face up to it. However it may seem to you - from where I'm standing, A LOT of progress has been made in the last few decades. I'm positive.

That was a harrowing read. I'm guessing we'll be seeing similar reports involving Sikh girls on a regular basis in the near future. Thing is, the bravado and the rebellion is apparent on the part of Sikh girls when the prevailing mood is tame. But when the other side kicks up things a notch, or the next fella is a proper psycho / hard nut, all that, "You can't tell me what to do / I'm a strong, independent woman / Sikh males are misogynists" nonsense all turns to 5**t in an instant. I'm of the mentality whereby "You've made your bed, now lie in it." If helping advances are spurned, what else can be done? Some people only learn through experience.

Well, given the prevalence of sexual abuse that we've uncovered in the UK, I think it's starkly obvious that our Sikh sisters need protection - whether they themselves are clued up enough to recognise it or not (and let's talk straight - plenty of them are simply too dumb, naive or up their own ar5e to realise this - until it is too late sadly). With a lot of apneean (and their mouthy rebellious ways), we just have to be careful to try and strike that balance between protecting them and not appearing like an overly controlling ar5ehole, because you know what they can be like - they'll be using that ish against you next.... lol "Oh, my horrible misogynist family didn't let me go out when I wanted, so I ran away....and then I met Abdul at a club...and then....and then....boo hoo hoo!" I believe these thresholds shift about a lot depending on the individuals concerned. Some people need more attention than others. Some apneean are just straight too stubborn and just don't want to listen almost naturally. It's like it is biologically driven. You have to adapt to what Waheguru sends you. What other choice we got? Look at this girl for example: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/06/faiza-ahmed-cries-for-help-missed-every-authority-simon-hattenstone

Definitely. That goes without saying, I definitely wasn't white-knighting or anything like that. I was looking at the issue from a certain perspective, arguably one where I guess there's a part of me that still feels that our Sikh sisters should be "protected." I'm pretty certain very few of them see it that way in this day and age, which is fine with me. I personally wasn't coming from a judgemental angle, but, again, the old izzat perspective (no, not in the way Muslims have ruined that concept for the rest of us by chopping up their disobedient women and burying them under the patio in old suitcases); that kind of stiff-upper-lip, keep-your-house-in-order, play-by-the-rules, enjoy-life-and work-hard-but-don't-bring-your-family-into-disrepute mentality that our elders had, without recourse to fatal acts of violence to keep family members in-line. I guess we have different tolerance levels and thresholds for defining the parameters of a respectful life. Don't get me wrong, I don't think we're too far off from meeting in the middle. We're human after all and the sum of our life experiences, so there's bound to be some leeway or deviations at either end.

my gripe is not with her doing her fashion it 's with her shallow mindness leading to her giving advice to others such as wearing tight smaller kacherey to wear tight leggings ...when you start down that line what's next if your kirpan spoils the line of your dress or jacket , forget wearing a proper sized one and wear a tiny one on a chain or in your joorda/dastar. This is how people start getting full of dhils...

I like your explanation Sikhni777. In physics the famous double slit experiment used a set of single electrons (particles) fired one after the other through 2 slits. The result was an interference pattern which is characteristic of a wave and not a particle. This implied that each single electron would go through both slits; through no slits; through just the left slit and through just the right all at the same time! Quantum field theory explains this by stating that matter is neither a wave nor a particle. It is something more abstract and could be considered as a simultaneous co-existence of all possibilities. This leads to the idea of superposition i.e. all possibilities potentially existing at the same time. Gurbani mentions the idea of superposition as being an intrinsic part of creation and the creator. "You have thousands of eyes, and yet you have no eyes. You have thousands of forms, and yet you do not have even one. You have thousands of lotus feet, and yet you do not have even one foot. You have no nose, but you have thousands of noses. This play of yours entrances me." "He himself is formless, and also formed; the one lord is without attributes, and also with attributes." "At the same time, he is both hidden and revealed. For the spiritually wise, doubt and fear are dispelled." Gurbani also goes further to mention that mind or consciousness and matter are interchangeable and that the spirit of God rests within both. "You yourself are conscious of your creation." "Wherever i look, i see the lord pervading there, in the union of consciousness and matter." "The distinction between mind and matter has been destroyed, and the darkness has been dispelled." "He himself is mind, and he himself is matter." In Sikhism the description of Waheguru is so unique that for many it goes beyond understanding. Many times what may appear as an apparent contradiction is only due to lack of knowledge and correct understanding of Gurmat teachings. Sikhism holds Waheguru as the absolute power, pure truth, the only creator, without fear, without hatred, beyond time and limitless. He is everywhere and nothing is without Him. He is within His creation and beyond. Take sunlight as an example, it is colourless, taking the colours of the rainbow as SarGuna and in which case sunlight as Nirguna as it has none of the rainbow attributes. If this light is passed through a prism, it splits into seven bands and each band has a different colour (SarGuna). If these split light beams are collected and inverted back by suitable optics, they will all merge and again become one colourless beam. Nirguna can become Sarguna and Sarguna can become Nirguna. If it can be done in physics then cannot God do this also? With this example one can see that Nirguna has all the Gunas or qualities in it. So if in Gurbani one finds the concepts of Nirguna and Sarguna, it appears all the same. The summation of all the Gunas is equal to Nirguna. In other words out of the Nirguna all the Gunas originate. Karta Purakh has all the Gunas, but there is no need for Karta Purakh to show them off, Karta Purakh remains in Nirguna state. Sikhs openly accept this concept of Sargun Nirgun to be true since every word of Gurbani is directly revealed from Waheguru. Therefore, God is Nirgun and Sargun. saragun niragun nira(n)kaar su(n)n samaadhheeaap || He possesses all qualities; He transcends all qualities; He is the Formless Lord. He Himself is in Primal Samaadhi. (Ang 290) niragun aap saragun bhee ouhee || He Himself is absolute and unrelated; He Himself is also involved and related. (Ang 287) raaj joban prabh thoo(n) dhhanee || thoo(n) niragun thoo(n) saragunee ||2|| O God, You are my power, authority and youth. You are absolute, without attributes, and also related, with the most sublime attributes. ||2|| (Ang 211) nira(n)kaar aakaar aap niragun saragun eaek || He Himself is formless, and also formed; the One Lord is without attributes, and also with attributes. (Ang 250) At the beginning of time God was all pervading and was only Nirgun as there existed nothing but Him. Then He created the entire creation i.e. solar systems, galaxies, planets, life forms, humans etc. In other words, anything to everything originated from God. From the One Light, the entire universe welled up. So who is good, and who is bad? ||1|| (Ang 1349)

It's a symbol of Sikh identity. If people aren't Sikh they shouldn't be wearing it.

Sikhi has many aspects. And sometimes they dont resonate really well. Like saint and soldier. A saint would never retaliate or intervene, he would think everything is gods hukam. A soldier would resort to weapons as a first means for any problem. Balance is key, one has to determine when to be what. So here,the concept of treating nature as containing gods light and the concept of treating our guru as the highest king are at odds. Flowers and the best most beautiful things are offered to our guru, such as honey,ivory,milk, and silks,kasthoor and kesar. Most of these things are taken away from animals and trees, sometimes forcibly. But these are the things offered to royalty. So why wouldnt we offer to guruji? Some people get upset when milk/yogurt is used to wash takhats and nishaan sahibs. Because they believe it is a waste of food. I think it depends on an individuals' sharda. If u are offering out of respect and love, it will be accepted. If u are having doubts about it being moral, dont do it. But also dont try to stop others from doing it. As they are doing it for the right reasons. Myself, Ive found, whatever we do for the guru will never be wrong. He will accept it and make it right. For example, we had a drought, but because guru sahib was coming to our house, we had to wash all our verandahs, windows, and driveway. I felt really guilty and bad for wasting water on just cleaning. But the next day, when guru ji came, it rained out of nowhere in the summer, but only for a little while. Just enough to replenish what we had used, i thought. So from then on,i never doubt anything that is done for guruji. To show him respect or love. Also, ive learned that if u want ur rosebushes to flower all year long, just cut the flowers. Then the plant will keep producing flowers to make seeds. If u dont cut flowers, the plant only flowers once, the petals fall off, and it forms rosehips which has seeds. So a lot of people cut flowers to keep roses on rose plants. Also, what of people who sell flowers for a living? Mostly thats where sikhs buy them from for throwing. But u are right, slowly the new generation should stop phasing out these old tradtitions that are not environmentally friendly. Or have no use like washing with milk. We shouldnt stop older generation from doing it. Just dont do it ourselves. And it will phase out.

I like her style, nothing objectionable on her instagram whatsoever. We need more young Sikh representatives in popular culture.

Hukam Want to see the light of God? Isnu kende Hukam vich rehna, if only I could cope with Hukam too. This elder is an inspiration to all: https://www.facebook.com/SardarBarjinderSinghh/videos/1289166954442081/ ?? Waheguru forgive me of my sins

I dont see anything wrong with them sending back guys who are lying about being political refugees. The ones facing genuine danger from Punjab Police should however be allowed to stay.

We're all 'liberal'. This is a fair minded liberal country. There is no place in this country for viscious racist facists like Tommy Robinson just as there is no place for neo-Islamic facists. Any 'Sikh' that supports a hate-filled facist bigot like Tommy Robinson is a self-loathing, gullible, easily manipulated ignorant fool. The kind of fools that don't even realise that their fathers, mothers, grandfathers and gandmothers built the great UK Sikh community we have today by physically fighting and destroying men like Tommy Robinson and the organisations they represent. To think that their sacrifices went in vain, only for the current generation like Hammertime and superkaur to turn around and spit on their bravery and fortitude by supporting these evil facists makes me feel incredibly incredibly sad.

in any kind of addiction physical dependence is the first thing that you have to fight but the psychological dependence is the big problem to get rid of.being a medical professional i can tell you this.congrats man u have won over both the physical and psychological dependence but at times there is a tendency to fall back.try never to sit alone doing nothing.have some KIRTAN played by your side always so that you never feel alone plus the positive vibes from devotional music will keep the negative thoughts away from you.

Personal Ardas is between you and Maharaj Ji. When one does a personal Ardas, it is asking Waheguru to listen to their benti (request). An Ardas is a request, not a demand for something, so one should do with utmost respect and with love and devotion. Although as said before Guruji are antarjami (all knowing), so what you can manage and feel comfortable with.The full Ardas that granthi Ji does is very good if you can manage it, but rather than making it a ritual, try from your soul, a short personal Ardas with the above qualities will also be heard by them.

Regarding the quote from SikhQuotes, I doubt that quote as well and don't think it's real either. As for losing, a loss is a loss, no matter what the reasons are. After that it's just perspective, technicalities and how far someone wants to push the other. At one point both sides weigh the pros and the cons. All soldiers are brave, to say one is braver than the other is ridiculous. I actually had a discussion with a few proud Pakistanis and we had a discussion about the Mughals and I was quite vocal about how distaste for the Mughals presenting the Sikh perspective and even a Muslim perspective (Sufi and other saint persecution, how they kidnapped/raped non-Muslims and Dulla Bhatti the Rajput Muslim who used to lead a revolution against Akbar. They generally agreed that Jahangir and Aurangzeb weren't good leaders, or they simply didn't want to offend me, which was fine as well. I wouldn't have minded their opinion though. An interesting thing to note is that Babur was a very vicious conqueror. During his conquests in India he captured thousands of Indians and Guru Nanak Dev Ji was one of them. Babur had heard of a Peer who was among the prisoners and asked him to appear before him, he wanted the blessing of this Peer that people spoke of so his rule may stay till the end of time. Guru Nanak Dev Ji said if you want to rule here to the end of time then you must have a humane rule where no one is hurt and everyone's basic human rights/needs are met. Upon these bachans Babur was convinced this person wasn't your average person, he spoke the truth and reassured that his rule would be blessed by God/Allah/Ram/Waheguru if he did not hurt anyone. Babur released the prisons and even if you look at 3rd person sources you can see that his rule was peaceful all the way up to Jahangir. The translated Persian sources of the Mughal archives show that Jahangir had resented the fact that the previous rulers before him had "softened up to the Hindoos" and he believed he had to uphold the ideals of Islam and begin to punish these Kafirs, especially (as Jahangir referred to) as the Hindu (Sikh) Guroos. It angered him even more that (I don't remember exactly so don't quote me on this, but it was either his son or nephew) had become a follower of the Guru. He also expressed how the Sikh Guru's power and influence was growing and it hints that it bothered him and he had felt threatened by this. To cut a long story short, these were the main reasons he had summoned Guru Arjan Dev Ji and he asked his name to be put inside the Guru Granth Sahib to ensure his rule over India. Guru Angad Dev Ji said, even my name cannot be put into this Granth, then how can yours Aurangzeb ji? Aurangzeb's verdict was to do what he said or for him to embrace the tu-h-thi ta-vee (hot plate) with sand poured on top. Guru Arjan Dev Ji knew that this was going to happen eventually and was more than happy to get on the thaahthee tavee for they were one with Waheguru and their Shabad and teachings were in the Adi Granth. Jahangir may have thought he killed Guru Arjan Dev Ji, but Guru Arjan Dev Ji did not die, the Bani of Guru Sahib Ji is with us today and Guru Sahib knew that. What oral tradition of the Sikhs maintain is that Guru Nanak Dev Ji passed down shastar vidiya (the knowledge of weapons) via Baba Budha Ji all the way to Guru Arjan Dev Ji and Guru Hargobnd Sahib Ji. He knew a day would come where the once vicious, now pacified rule would most likely revert back to oppressing the masses and when this happens, an army exactly like the Khalsa would be needed to protect everyone (including Muslims) from tyranny. Proof to support that Guru Nanak Dev Ji knew shastar vidiya is that Guru Nanak Dev Ji kept shastar on him as well, including a kirpan and other weapons during his travels. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ As for the Sikh Empire, Hari Singh Nalwa was the only General in history to capture and conquer Afghanistan and did so honorable and respecting the men, woman and children there. The justification the Sikhs had for securing the Khyber pass was all the Mughal invasions occurred from that area and to safeguard the kingdom, the Khyber pass must be protected. The Sikh Empire did fall and it was no other than the fault of a few Sikhs and the trust of the Dogras in short, but if we learn from history, we can build the future to be stronger than what occurred during the Sikh Empire. ~~~~~~~~~~~ The British goal was to divide India and Pakistan and sow seeds of hate so in the future no such a power like the Sikh empire would ever be created again. If Sikhs, Muslims and Hindus unified that region would have been an economic powerhouse today. Gore are very interesting people. Desis get very boiled up and say things like "Khard-ja teri (insert individual) di....." and proceed to beating the individual up with their fists or weapon, but a gora may take it, but they will slap you when you don't expect it in such a way that you won't be able to ever get on your feet again. The slap the Britishers did in on Pakistan and India is such that they ensured that no real economic competitor ever arise from that region for the next 100 years. ~~~~~~~~~~ As for whether Pakistani army raped Bangladeshi woman. Yes they did, but accepting this fact doesn't effect my view on Pakistan as India has done worse. If the history of India comes out, it will be branded as one of the worst (and naturally the best) history in the world because through great chikkar (mud) arises the lotus flowers. Genocide of communities, aryan invaders and brutal systems of caste system that dehumanized millions of people. It would be all okay if this were talked about in past tense only, but the Indian army and state continues to condone activities that involve rape and genocide. When Shaheed Subegh Singh was the general during the fight in Bangladesh, he made sure his entire units did not touch a Bangladeshi woman as the Pakistani armies did. He was a legend, he knew Bangladeshi and even tied a thothi and an average Bangladeshi couldn't tell him apart from being a Sikh/Indian or a Bangladeshi. To cut another long story short, due to racism and the slow campaign to corner Sikhs into initiating a genocide of the Sikhs, Shaheed Subegh Singh ji left his position and joined Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa Bhindranwale and the Khalsa. After this you know what kind of useless low class generals India employs like Gill, vaidiya and the punjab police comissioner kps gill and many other criminals who part took in rape, slaughter and genocide of innocent individuals from their own country so the bigger wrong would be the Indians.

I too used to take great delight in reminding my muslim friends that we sikhs are so against cousin marriage that we go to great lengths when choosing a marriage partner, to ensure that our paternal and maternal 'goths' do not match so as to eliminate even the slightest chance of a distant blood relation. I thought this was a sikh thing. Little did I know it was a 'jatt' thing. Then.....with the deteriorating situation in Afghanistan, up to 10,000 Afghan sikhs moved into our west London neighbourhood. I found that they, being exclusively arora and khatri, married their first cousins the same way that muslims do. Later, found out that it wasn't just an 'Afghan' thing to do that. Found out that all bhappe....whether in Delhi, Bombay, Calcutta or Jalandhar do the same thing....i.e marry their first cousins. I then realised why most non sikhs in India think all sikhs marry their cousins. The average sikh in the city in town is of a bhappa background...and so the average non-sikh associates all bhappe activities with normal everyday sikh activities. They have no interaction with the rural jatts. That, is also why the Indian drama serials think it is quite normal for a sikh to do pooja at home and to inter-marry with hindus etc. Personally though.....I prefer my jatt ways. The jatt way is the sikh way.