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yes I mean when our own term for sikhi isn't used by the rest of the world, and a colonial term is used instead - then doesn't it show the lack of control we have on how we are described by indian and british governments?

???Just have faith,one who goes to His door does not return empty handed.? Bhul Chul Maf ?

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh @Singh375 @AmanSingh7 @Khal1stan @GurjantGnostic Sangat ji,Maagh Mahena has started.I heard a katha, that whatever we ask for in this month of Maagh will come 12 times faster.Let us all ask for naam and Bani. @ManpreetKaurr @Kaurr Based on what i remember both of you have not taken amrit yet?Best time to ask for amrit di daat and sikhi daan Bhul Chuk Maf ?

This is for those who may be interested, I have had the opportunity to write a number of books recently, initially they were for sponsors of the podcasts but due to demand I have decided to put some of them out on a self publication site. Slowly they will increase in number with the Sarkutavali Teeka and Gagar Cho sagar also being added in June and August respetively. At the moment there are three books available to purchase which are the 'Sahaskriti and Gatha Teeka by Mahant Ganesha Singh', 'Matra by Baba Sri Chand Ji' and 'The Jap Ji Sahib Katha 01 - Mul Mantra Katha by Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindrawale' They are all on the following link https://www.lulu.com/shop/search.ep?contributorId=1393200 Thank you, and just so you anyone is aware there is no profit for these books as they all go back into the Sikhism in Snippits podcast

Whelp. Kinda hoped more names would come up than just his.

Attributed to Shiva. Seems only some parts were maintained by some people. I think it would take the Nihung Jathas retraining together to get the system ironed out again and complete. You never know what's being maintained Gupt though. Oh and while not popular Niddar Singh Nihang knows quite a bit.

Thanks, read the first few pages, very informative, will read the rest later.

Those are pretty committed Sikhs bro. What on their channel is objectionable?

reminds me of menu mistake we saw as student: vegetarian on rice

Here is an English and Punjabi Lekh on Raag-Naad-Dhuni that should shed some light on this subject - http://brahmbungadodra.org/bookdata/bookpdf/Lekh_6_Rag_Naad_Dhuni_JKSV.pdf lmk if it helps ?

the application of gatka is to do a dance, and also score points by hitting various parts of the body. In british indian army it was used as a fencing game, and its origins are from khutka - a sword dance from Persia. In almost all gatka akharas they do silly things against maryada such as hitting the opponents dal/shield on purpose!!! There's even some weirdo gatkabajis who slap their thighs IN FRONT of the shastar parkash ( as in go up to the shastar parkash and do a thigh slap) LOL ! Also the chakri spinning move, the application of that is how to basically commit suicide in front of a volley of arrows !!! You can probably see where I am going, many of these gatka ustads are just shameless in what they are teaching....

Kendo seems less practical in all honesty. It might help with better reaction times, but gatka is more athletic and perhaps a better workout as well.

Take guru's oat asra before doing anything, in this way guru sahib will be ang sang and help you whenever you come across problem.

What is seen is a display. I'm willing to bet there are some Gatka practitioners who understand the application as well. It does seem from a distance that Shastar Vidya in it's various forms is more concerned with the martial application. There's benefit to do anything...with the proper perspective of what that thing is, and how it applies.

Gatka is more for display, not a serious martial art by any standard. These sorts of "display arts" can be found all over the India subcontinent (and middle East). And i did gatka for about a year (always had interest in martial arts) Baaki it depends on what's available to you. If kendo is available to you, go for it.

If you want to learn a martial art for self defence then you're better off learning boxing/muay thai/judo/wrestling. The day of the sword has long passed. If you're learning for historical and cultural purposes than go with Gatka rather than Kendo.

well we should respect sikhi by not calling it sikhism, which is a british colonial religious consturct also hinduism term only existed from colonial times, and is a british colonial construct of combining different hindu and local traditions into the religion construct.

Thank youu so much! This is also one way guru sahib is reminding me about amrit di daat and keeping me on track. I really really hope maharaj will listen to my ardaas. Lots of love to this sangat!

raagis from Harmandir sahib pre partition

http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/Kamalpreet_Singh_Pardeshi New Book Sarkutavali Teeka by Giani Bishan Singh Ji which has been edited and translated into English for those who wish to learn vedant or are going to learn katha in the future as it is used as a foundation text. Thanks all the books are on this new links for those interested. thank you for your time

A review of the Mul mantar book by a genuine scholar, for those who may or may not want this book Review of the Mool Mantar commentary In 2015 Kamalpreet Singh Pardeshi of Leicester published an English commentary of the Mool Mantar. There have already been written dozens of such commentaries. However, what makes this book so fascinating and unique is that it is based on the research and writings of Baba Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale who was one of the greatest Sikh scholars of the 20th century. The book follows the traditional interpretations (sampradaya arth) of Sikhi which have been passed down orally through many centuries. While the ocean of traditional sampradayic wisdom is abundant in the Punjabi language, this book appears to be the first attempt of introducing the traditional interpretations in the English language solely targeting a western audience. This is what makes this book so spectacular and fascinating. The book has an easy layout and is divided into several chapters. The first chapter sets the context and position of the Japji Sahib in the Sikh tradition. By drawing on sophisticated and difficult writings not easily available to Sikhs in the west - Nanak Prakash, Suraj Prakash, Gurmukh Prakash and the Rahitname - Kamalpreet Singh Pardeshi has shown how the Japji Sahib has always been an integral and foundational aspect of the Sikh tradition. Many passages of these aforementioned books have been translated to English for the first time in history, showing how many of the Gurus have successively praised the Japji Sahib and what benefits the devotee will gain from reciting the holy verses. The second chapter is a discussion on how Guru Nanak and his revelation fits in with the wider Indic traditions of religion and what sets Guru Nanak apart from the earlier avatars and India religions of the past. The purpose of this chapter is to show the readers how Guru Nanak’s message is a continuation of earlier dharams while at the same time being distinct and independent. There are several quotations from the Puranas , Upanishads and Islam to enhance and enforce the message of Guru Nanak. The impression you get from reading this chapter is that Sikhi is not a faith that originated out of the blue in the 15th century. Rather, Sikhi is a majestic faith with roots going back several thousands of years to the early days of creation. Classifying Sikhi as an old religious tradition is a typical outlook in the samprdayic traditions, but it is the first time I have seen such depth in the English language. The chapter draws heavily on the sophisticated terminology of Vedanta while showing how these concepts are present in the Guru Granth Sahib. On page 63 begins the Mool Mantar commentary itself. Each word of the Mool Mantar has been given several meanings drawing from the Sikh tradition and the many Sanskrit origins of the various words. Kamalpreet Singh Pardeshi shows how the Mool Mantar can be interpreted from its historical context but also from its linguistics. I was personally fascinated to see the depths of the Mool Mantar and how the different words add deeper perspectives to the Sikh faith, clearly showing how Sikhi is a universal faith welcoming people of all backgrouns and religious traditions. The chapter shows how on the one level the Mool Mantar can be engaged with purely within the Sikh tradition and from a purely meditative approach. On the other hand the chapter shows how the Mool Mantar fits perfectly into centuries old traditional Indic philosophy and the chapter gives a glimpse of how the Nirmala, Udasi and Taksali scholars of the past have been using, positioning and categorizing the mool mantar in their wider discussions with Brahmin priests and scholars all over India. This sophisticated level, I believe, is an aspect most Sikhs in the west have been deprived. In this chapters, Kamalpreet Singh Pardeshi has drawn from Guru Granth Sahib, the vaars of Bhai Gurdas and the Persian ghazals of Bhai Nand Lal Goya. Interestingly, the commentary also draws on the lesser studied Sarukhtavali Granth and Vichar Sagar which have been integral books of the traditional samprdaic curriculum. The Puranas, Vedas, Ramayan and Upanishads are also referenced throughout this chapter. The book is not written as a dry and academic book you read once and then forget everything about. Rather, it has been written with the purpose of inspiring Sikh youth in the west to develop an interest for the traditional and esoteric interpretations of Sikh philosophy. The roman spelling of Gurmat philosophical terms have been kept (instead of merely translating them and keeping the original words out). I believe this has been done purposefully to widen the readers’ vocabulary as well as to inspire them to look deeper into these philosophical concepts by their own study. I am pretty sure Kamalpreet Singh will succeed in his mission of inspiring and widening the plurality of Sikh expression in the west, not only by his online activities, but also with the publication of books like this, of which this book is only amongst the first. I am looking forward to future writings and translations of Kamalpreet Singh Pardeshi. Enjoy the reading!

Some terrible self promotion below; there are some facebook updates promoting the book and the podcasts by other users. This is for those who have requested to read some views before thinking about having a look through the books to purchase? Dont worry after this I wont put anything up self promoting and heightening my pride and ego! Review 01 A great resource for all the students who want to further their understanding of Gurbani. This is probably the first 'Sampardai' translation of the Mool Mantar in English which goes into superb detail. This book translated by Bhai Kamalpreet Singh Ji is based on very spiritually deep commentaries of Sri Jap Ji Sahib such as Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji's Katha, Sant Kartar Singh Ji's Jap Ji Sahib teeka, Sant Giani Kirpal Singh Ji's Amir Bhandar and many more. Alongside this Bhai Kamalpreet Singh Ji has included detailed footnotes, which will help you understand concepts from Gurbani, Itihaas, & vedant clearly. You can purchase this book on the below given link. Review 02 I received this steek a few days ago and have to say that it is the most amazing steek I have ever read! Bhai Kamalpreet Singh Ji has managed to describe the most heavenly concepts in a way that any reader can understand and digest. Once you have read this book you will look and recite the Moolmantar in a completely different way. I was completely unaware of the vast depth in these words of Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj. The book is full of great footnotes that allows for a deeper understanding and reading. It is a book for true seekers and everyone must read it regardless of their jathebani affiliation. May Gurusahibji continue to bless Bhai Kamalpreet Singhji as a vessel to share their knowledge. Review 03 I was asked by a very humble brother to review something for him. I figure if I am to review something of great value that can significantly improve someone's understanding and connection with Gurbani - I must try to share this with a wider number of souls... Have you heard of the podcast 'Sikhism in Snippets'? You can find it here and subscribe to it at: http://kam1825.podbean.com Bhai Kamalpreet Singh Jee - a highly knowledgeable Gursikh is the Singhjee behind this podcast - some of you may know him to be the genius behind the website www.gurmatveechar.com - which is a priceless treasure that has served me immensely in my own journey. Gurmat Veechar has countless Sikhi resources ranging from Audio, Katha / Gurbani Ucharaan to Gurbani Literature - both in english and Gurnukhi/Punjabi. Bhai Sahibjee sent out a call for support 6/7 months back - requesting sponsorship for his podcast so he could begin another project he is dedicated to - editing and translating Gurbani discourses of Sant Mahapurshs and Gurbani Vidvaans. His sewa has meant that the likes of you and I are able to have ease of access to the Gyaan of Puratan Gursikhs in written form - but also translated to english in a straightforward manner. On top of all of this - as great as his sewa is, his humility is genuinely greater for he continues to thank the sponsors who stepped forward as being the 'enablers' of this sewa of producing these books. I am privileged to be a sponsor of the podcast but feel I personally am not able to begin to give anything in return to equal what I am taking away... Currently, I have been blessed with three of Bhai Sahibjee's publications and reading them is truly an intense experience - the most recent of which you can purchase for yourself from the following link: http://www.lulu.com/…/jap-j…/paperback/product-22635068.html If you would like to purchase any of these books you can also contact Bhai Sahibjee directly (copied below). Finally, you can also step forward and become a sponsor so that Bhai Sahibjee is able to continue his extremely valuable sewa. For as little as $20 a month (thats about £14 for UK based Sangat). You will also then receive any future publications as they are published.

With the teeka for Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji I have not added the gurmukhi arths because the publications would become too big, this is just the mul mantra and is about 175 pages in A5, the other parts will be coming soon but its taking its time, I think there will be about ten parts in total.

that niddar singh teach's cause look at this video this <banned word filter activated> doesn't believe in keeping your hands up he believes in desi fighting keeping your hands down get ready to laugh anyone who defended shastar vidya please don't post in a martial art forum again cause you know nothing about martial arts and fighting

Singhfauja ji we are here comparing apples and oranges here. Yes, two wrong does not make it right.. Attack on sri guru granth sahib ji maharaj, sri dasam granth sahib- systematically by teja singh bhausarias idealogy has been far more dangerous and far more damaging to panth than some manmat spread by some udasi and nirmale..sure we cannot and should not have double standards, we need to condemn them to equally in same breath for attempted in the past to bring Hinduism rituals in Gurmat. There are no grounds for anyone to justify their wrong doing either. As i said earlier teja singh bhausaria may have been died but idea never dies..the same basis of his idea based on bubble of - paranoia insecurity, hysteria, inferiority complex was picked by missionaries and others and is still being super imposed on the panth by missionaries here- rejection of dasam granth, rejection of jaap sahib, rejection of bhai gurdas ji varan and others. Bhausaria idea attack on Gurmat has been proven time and time again to be severely damaging to Gurmat as it attacks scriptures, create doubts within sikhs regarding this own guru...that is single handily most internal threat sikh faces..once you have attacked guru maharaj ang there is no other severe attack than that. Pseduo missionaries and others are direct by products of bhausaria idea..it does not rocket scientist to figure that out, its pretty easy to connect the dots, they may not be related or from the same pind but they are feeding the same frenzy as teja singh bhausaria did. Now coming to manmat by some pseduo nirmale and udasi..two things - first key thing- manmat was condemned by nirmale and udasi..in fact nirmale and udasi kicked the bad apples out from them, udasi and nirmale endorsed original singh sabha so that they can free sikh places of worship from curropt leadership..they were not against orginal singh sabha at all, in fact the sgpc granthi of darbar sahib was nirmala himself. In fact some nihangs hate nirmale for this..!!..Nirmale always tried to meditate a solution and looked at the bigger picture than small stuff. Now second thing is- some of anti gurmat stuff performed by some bad apples of nirmale and udasi were adddressed and fixed. In fact, last time i have checked- sgpc have full control of darbar sahib, takth sahib within punjab, and nirmale and udasi are welcome back in panth after years of demonization and demoralization by akalis, even anandpur sahib resolution (which sant jarnail singh bhindranwale, jhaaros/kharakos fight and died for) clearly talks about udasi and nirmale sikhs should be welcomed back in sikh panth http://en.wikipedia....dpur_Resolution (h). Taking appropriate measures for the enactment of an All India Gurdwaras Act with a view to improving the administration of the gurdwaras throughout the country and to reintegrate the traditional preaching sects of Sikhism like Udasis and Nirmalas, without in any way encroaching upon the properties of their maths. Even if given benefit of doubt to doubtful, even if lets say just some of manmat are still being committed by nirmale and udasi, even if they are- the key thing is its not being superimposed onto the panth un alike bhausaria ideaology have done, latest dhunda/kala afghana/pseduo missionaries incident past printing birs without mangals/ragmalla incident speaks for itself. Another reason bhausaria is highly dangerous than some of things nirmale and udasi have done in the past is bhuasaria does not have ideological frame work, bhasuaria idea is to make "sikhs" so paranoia insecure, inferior to the brink that they would take actions in extreme lengths to adddress- yes even if it means to reject dasam granth sahib, reject jaap sahib, reject bhai gurdas ji varan all in comfort of getting false sense of security that to avoid bhraminvaad, rss etc. Some of manmats committed by nirmale were contained as nirmale have their head akhara- nirmal panchyati akhara where rules are laid out- meeting of nirmale mahants of akharas are held and also main thing is none of nirmale and udasi rituals (be it according to gurmat or contary) are NOT super imposed by any means on the panth but bhausaria idea based on human traits cannot be contained as there is no ideological frame work, it could be shared by all and being super imposed on the panth..thats why its so dangerous..!!. Regarding caste discrimination you are simply out of depth on this one- lets not blame nirmale and udasi only, it has effected everyone sikhs from all walks of life. It's fact that its punjabi tribal thinking effected every sikhs from all walks of life for eg- akaali leaders refusing to give amrit to dalits that dr ambadekhar ji bought with him after being discrimated by hindu leaders. And Lets not forget- singh sahib discrimation against non jatt members, even to this day- in singh sabha gurdwara committe members or board of directors are all jatts, how bloody convinenet and lets not forget couples getting married within their jatha/samaprda..again how bloody convienent...lets live by actions rather than empty words that sikhs themselves are immune from caste discrimation and jatha/samparda discrimation when it comes gursikhs finding their partner. I have one of my divine brother- gyani gurdev singh ji who stayed at taksal, nirmale and with jatha singhs for (5 years in toronto) who broke all barriers of samparda and jatha discrimination and who is now married 3ho singhani despite of differences..now thats what you call breaking barriers and setting good example of without any discrimination, living life full without any insecurity/comfort zones. Caste discrimation within sikhs sikhs whether its evident form (mabhzi sikhs getting seperate amrit) or subtle form(as it mentioned above) its there thanks to punjabi tribalism..and thats harsh truth..we need to collectively lead by examples/actions than empty words..if we cannot marry our son and daughter outside of caste or outside of punjabi tribalism then we have no reason to whine about caste discrimation..good deeds/donation/changes starts from home..!! Osingh veer...i am sure teja singh bhausaria intially meant well had good intentions, but unfortunately list of radical changes he attempted to bought fwd in sikhi does not quantify all the good stuff he may have done in the past, he left the earth, but his diseased idea lives on in the panth. At this moment, I am not too concerned about bhausaria list of radical changes of rejecting bani have audacity to print sri guru granth sahib without his modified version of bani as the suitation was contained. But i am actually concerned about what invokes his thinking and what led him to go extreme lenghts of super imposing the changes itself on the panth, there was no idealogy behind it - it was simple byproduct of human trait- insecure, parniao, hysteria that sikh scriptures were altered by hindus so therefore it should be modified/reprinted..!! There are still many effected by bhausaria are mum when it comes to rejecting gurbani openly however they are still who discrimate within gurbani, there are those(wide range of missionaries among others) who only read gurbani mukhvak guru maharaj and take bhagata di bani/bhatta di swaie as pinch of salt and ignore reading it and apply that in their daily life. At the end, bhausaria idea is damaging the panth- evidently as well as subtly systematically....my advise to my brothers- save your scriptures guys..if youths here- don't want to trust nirmale and udasi, sevapanthis don't simple - no harm done - sikhi is not confined to what sikhs or youths abroad think..it does not matter to me..for me what panth (panj takth including puratan samparda's) thinks thats what matter..because thats the foundation of the panth but do save your scripture from bhausaria thought, even slightest suggestion of rejecting gurbani, sri dasam granth- we should become one voice behind the panth (all panj takth) and vehemently defend against regardless whoever it is...people may target dhunda- hold protest and apply band aid fixes infront of him..dhunda goes away another one will come back until we address the root of the problem .!!

The answer sometimes does lie in between but at other times some just prefer not to argue a point across, sikh sangat does not rep the whole panth not does it have scholars on the board from these organisations to present an argument across

So, like always, the answer usually lies in the middle of two arguments where people swear that "I'm right and you're wrong". Interesting and informative thread/great posts from all sides.

What a pretty picture is being painted of groups that went and go against Gurbani and rehat. The people that started imposing their views on Sikhs are the udhasis when they distort Gurbani and go against rehat without any care. What bigger crime can any group commit than purposely distorting Gurbani when Satguru speaks about Sri Chand? Who brought in the idols into Sri Harmandir Sahib? It was the udhasis. Who is saying there is nothing special about Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj as every religious book should be studied and gain knowledge from it, Gurbani shoud not be given any special treatment? Its the udhasis. There are many enemies of the Khalsa Panth and there one goal is to dilude Sikhi. Teja Singh Bhausaria is long gone and his thinking went with him. New aged thinkers like Sarbjit Singh Dhunda are here and they have similar ideas to Teja Singh, but don't hold his thinking. Singhs don't support Dhunda, so he is not a real issue. Teja Singh Bhausaria is not an issue, simply because he does not exist. Ask yourself then who is the issue from the inside? Today people that want to dilude Sikhi, they are distorting the institutions started by the Gurus themselves. One and most important is DamDami Taksal because of its teachings are concrete and they are set up to teaching Sikhi to Sikhs. Sikhs don't listen to udhasis because they are corrupt. However, how do you bring merit back to the Udhasis? Tell people that Taksal Jathedars respected them, took lessons from them like learning sanskrit, and hide the parts where the Taksal Jathedars call Udhasis Gurbani distortors among other things. Sant Baba Sundar Singh ji Maharaj was taught Gurbani by his own father early on, but those that want to bring Sikhi down will not tell you this part and just highlight that Sant ji was taught sanskrit by Udhasis. Udhasis are being promoted because they follow the order of the Hindus over Sikh teachings. Yet they are very good at hiding their true feelings. Another group that is being sucked into the Hindu order are the young "Nihang" Singhs of the west. They rely more on anger and so called historical records, than their Gurus Bani to understand what is accept. Won't label all ofthem with the same brush, but many of these youth are lost and the fake Nihang groups give them a sense of belonging and acceptance. The Nihang Singhs learned Gursikhi from Taksal Singhs in the past and today many of these fake Nihang jathas have created much hate between the two jathas to divide and conquer.

You bought very interesting point ...Thats exactly what i meant..sorry for the confusion..just to re-iterate yes there were many difference of opinions in many areas (ragmalla/mool mantar etc) in Gurmat in the past pre-100 year ago or ago but there were no issues..why? It's simple because samparda's kept the difference of opinions to themselves and when it came to panthic circle- they all came together accepted panthic maryada. No the problem is not some difference of opinions between jatha's or samparda's as there were always difference of opinion between samparda (like rara sahib/hoti mardan all beleive in mool mantar up to gurparsad and taksal/nanaksar/nihang beleives in up to nanak hosi bhi sach) but they seem to go quite well to the point that its seamless to an outsider to even suggest that there could be differences. The problem is not difference of opinion on things but rather the problem lies at "super imposing" one set of belief on rest of the panth. This thought of "super imposing" actually started with teja singh bhausaria -actual seed of division/hostility was put by teja singh bhausaria when he start "openly" attacking by introducing ridiculous reforms and super impose his revisionist theory on the panth ..he is very first one to cross the line- he obviously confused his tat khalsa revisionist thought with panthic maryada..his mindset is alive and kicking as they - person dies but his ideas never dies..obviously his ideas/mindset was planted in wider people mindset not limited to any jatha or samparda as its basis is based on basic human nature of - complete hysteria, paranoia, insecurity, inferiority complex as opposed to any ideological framework. As soon you super impose major elements of personal jatha/samparda maryada on the panth, there would be outrage, rebuttal, disunity, rhetoric speech back and forth, hostility..!! At the end, only way fwd with the unity within panth is that we must separate panthic maryada with personal one in our mind and treat it seperate. We must not mix them together..we must make sure they are NOT on a clash course..we need to keep them separate and, accept panthic maryada when engaging in panthic circle- which panthic maryada? I constitute all five takth (five pillars of Sikhism maryada as panthic maryada as all jathedars of all five takth sahib take most important panthic decisions...and i m sure many senior gurmukhs feels the same way..here are some few examples of many- bhai jeevan singh ji spent many years in patna sahib, he never criticize elements in patna sahib maryada (atleast not openly) which he didn't agree with..now thats what you call unity ...same goes with sant gurbachan singh khalsa bhindranwale when he clearly said that all though he does not agree with physical arti-arta but in the same breath he cautions to all that we should never criticize takth sahiba- sri hazoor sahib maryada...again thats a sign of clear unity..!!

The issue arises when Udhasis and Nirmale say they are not required to take Amrit and then Udhasis bow to Sri Chand (accept him as Guru) and Nirmale try to describe Veda and other religious text as equal to Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. Nirmale in Guru's times were no different than other Singhs. Nirmale took Amrit from the Punj Pyare and had the same Maryada as Taksal Singhs. Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj taught Baba Deep Singh ji Maharaj, who is the 2nd Jathedar of the Taksal (first being Guru Sahib himself). In Baba Deep Singh ji Maharaj's time the Nirmale were Amritdhari, they did not just teach, they were shastardhari. Nihang Singhs major role was to fight, Taksal Singhs was to teach Sikhs, and Nirmale SINGHS was to spread Sikhi far and wide. However all jathas took roles of being teachers, fighting in battles and spreading Sikhi far and wide. The Nihang Singhs, Taksal Singhs, and Nirmale Singhs were all taught by the first Jathedar of DamDami Taksal, Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Sahib ji Maharaj. Then later Baba Deep Singh ji Maharaj took on the seva as Jathedar of Taksal. Baba Gurbaksh Singh Ji Maharaj another Singh who fought with his head off, also took vidiya from Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj and then later became the Jathedar of Taksal as well. Nirmale were also led by an Amritdhari Singh (Sriman Baba Sahib Singh ji Bedi) at the time of the Jathedar of the Taksal was Sant Giani Sant Singh ji. Take for example the Naamdhari incident. Baba Ram Singh ji was a Gursikh. Shastardhari, Amritdhari and fully followed rehat. But what do "his" followers do now? Kirpan is off, bow to fake Gurus, and disrespect Gurbani. If they truly followed Bhai Ram Singh ji, then you would not know the difference between a Singh and Naamdharis. The udhasis and Nirmale (Mostly these to groups) of today, along with some self claimed Nihang Singhs and Taksal Singhs are trying to suck Sikhs into Hinduism. Why are Sikhs today so against Nirmale. It is because they have forgotten their roots of being Amritdhari Singhs.

Damdami taksal orginal name is Gyani samparda going back to baba deep singh ji time and bhai mani singh ji time..!! Paira Singh Padam does not talk about damdami taksal being an samparda in his Sikh Sampardavli pustak nor bhai kahn singh nabha talks about damdami taksal being an samparda but gyani samparda's. Damdami taksal is just like rara sahib upsamparda of nirmale, most of previous jathedards such as sant bishan singh ji muralewale were consider nirmale and part of nihang misals. Damdami taksal branch itself is consider cousin of Nirmale because of nirmale influences. Please read lifes of mahapursh in damdami taksal prior to 1900's such as sant sunder singh ji bhindranwale, sant bishan singh ji- they all had nirmale teachers all dressed in sadhu bana (white). They are deep rooted Nirmale order. Damdami taksal and Nirmale cross platform all the time thats how seamless their relationship is..great sants like sant bishan singh ji muralewale and sant sunder singh ji all had nirmale teachers. Sant bishan singh ji is even consider nirmala...all damdami taksal mahapursh have intertwined/cross platform relationship with nirmale except for sant kartar singh ji bhindranwale and sant jarnail singh ji bhindranwale as per according to time of dharam yudh morcha. Nirmale order is as important as damdami taksal order(lineage). One comes from bhai dya singh ji and bhai dharam singh ji (two of panj pyres) and other- taksal comes from baba deep singh ji/bhai mani singh ji. They cross platform all the time, the relationship is quite seamless. According to Taran Singh and Harbans Singh the two main branches of the Giani sampradaya are the one founded by Baba Deep Singh Ji, the Bhindranwale-Damdami Taksal and the Amristar branch founded by Bhai Mani Singh. Sant mohan singh ji Bhindranwale Taksal of Sant Sundar Singh is still recognised as Nirmalas by the Nirmala sampradaya and still consider themselves as Nirmalas. The difference between both lineages is just according to times and need- Sant Mohan Singh Bhindranwale tries to perserve the scholarly tradition of Gyani samparda, but mehta by Sant Kartar Singh Bhindranwale of Damdami Taksal had to rightly and understandably had to pick up piri in dharam yudh morcha according to the times so rightly priority was speak against injustice so vidya aspect was slightly compromised..senior taksalis from mehta acknowledge this..!! Regarding the Amritsar branch of the Giani sampradaya Taran Singh mentions masters such as Sant Kirpal Singh and Sant Amir Singh as being part of that lineage when in fact they were Sevapanthis so even gyani samparda have cross platform relations with nirmale and sevapanthis there were no issue before as relationship was seamless, its all inter connected- nirmale, sevapanthis, taksali were all inter-connected. http://www.sikhaware...e-and-taksalis/

Ignorance is bliss I guess. Request to Sangat ji, please go train Muay Thai/BJJ/Boxing/ Wrestling. After go train SV, you'll realise Shaster Vidiya is about training with "Shaster" and the aim is usually to kill, much different then the other Arts listed above. Hgsingh veerji is failing to understand this.

Yes, you're supposed to wear it to bed. Khalsa is tyar bar tyar, even while asleep :ph34r: Remember, this is Akal Purakh's Fauj you're joining, not some boy scout club. Ideally, you should also have other shasters close by your bed at night, like laathi and 3ft kirpan. Just move the kirpan around if it pokes you or something. You'll get used to it in a few days.

Forgive me for this but it is a quick post to make the sangat aware of a book DTF have published for me A small book on the basic and intricate meanings of the Sri Raagmala has been released in the UK and is now available from DTF book store in Birmingham for £2.99. Just thought i would let the sangat know in case anyone is interested

My brother all your questions are answered in the book. If you dont want to buy it then you can also find the answers in Gur Gira Raagmala by Sant Tehal Singh Ji or Raagmala Gurbani Hai by Giani Jaswant Singh Ji

Seriously Benti To the Sangat... Do not turn this thread into a raagmaala debate, please purchase the book from DTF or at the Barsi this year and read through and and make your own mind up, personally having read through it i thought Kam did a great job of the translation, its not easy translating deep arth into english... Benti to everyone to purchase the book and let the wider sangat know. In the future im sure Kam would put it up on the net, but for the meantime buy the paper version. The Book is dedicated to Sant Hari Singh Randhave Valeh

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Brilliant seva Kam1825 veerji. It’s about time the meanings explained by Mahapursh on Sri Raagmala Sahib Ji have been brought to the wider English speaking world. BhForce people tend to appreciate things more if they make some effort to attain them. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Benti to all the sangat. The steek is absolutely amasing, having read through most of it a few months ago, i can say its brilliant. Im not going into the debates over gurbani, the steek dosnt go into debates or anything. Bhai Sahib Kamalpreet Singh (Kam) has translated the arth of Sri Maan Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Jee Khalsa Bhindranvale as the spiritual arths and go into depth of other Vidvaan Gursikhs arths aswell. Its an absolute must and a brilliant read and a eye opener of the deeper arths of gurbani. Below is the front cover of the book. The Book Shall Be for sale At Baba Thakur Singh Jees Barsi in willenhall Otherwise purchase it from DTF Books in handsworth, get it on your reading list and be amased.

Ever heard of something called a Kirpan/Kard? Its that thing all Amritdhari Sikhs are supposed to carry. If you think Krav Maga is the best, then stop trolling forums and practise. For someone who posts so much I doubt you even train in any art. For those who do SV, if they have understood its effectiveness then there is no need to convince someone on the net. Anyone who doubts can come along to the akhara and test it out. This has always been the case. As SV opens up to the worlds martial artists, its ability to hold its own and receive acknowledgement speaks much more then some random singh on a forum who even doubts his own indiginous art, and licks the boot of the firangi. When Nidar Singh comes to USA, i will let you know and you can go beat him yourself. Talking only goes so far, pick up your weapons and lay down your challenge.

Muay Thai, Boxers, Wrestlers, Silat students and all other forms of martial artists have come to the akhara to train and learn. If SV was rubbish, surely in the 15 yrs of Nidar Singh teaching there would be an incident where he got beaten or the flaws of the art were highlighted. This has not happened, and instead top martial artists are organising seminars with Nidar Singh. The question should be, as a Sikh, how much are you really searching for the truth?

N30S1NGH Ji, There is no doubt that Panch Khalsa Divan (Bhasaur) did a lot of good parchar early on but went against the Guru Panth in their later days, but they were not the only ones. Many Nirmala and Udaasee groups are no less guilty of causing massive harm to Sikhi. Giani Sant Singh, although being a great Gurbani Kathakar, was directly responsible for introducing Hindu Aartee rituals inside Sri Darbar Sahib during Maharaj Ranjit Singh's days, and fully participated in Hindu marriage rites organized by the royal families - mainly due to the heavy influence of the Brahmins and Dogras. This is well documented in historical texts. Akali Phula Singh Ji did not agree with much of the maryada that went on, and philosophically clashed against the Gianis and the caretakers of that time. Things got even worse after the fall of the Raj. Amrit Sanchars were almost non-existent, Sikhs families started to follow Hindu rituals and worship HIndu deities. Thanks to the original Nirankaris and the original Kukas some initial traditions like vanished Anand (Karj) maryada, and not bowing to idols were restored. This was a sad time for our institutions also, many corrupt Udasee/Nirmala Gianis openly began to consume liquor and participate in fortification inside the Gurdwaras - idols of Hindu deities, pictures of Durga/Kali were installed at major historic Gurdwaras. Women were being kidnapped and raped at Sri Darbar Sahib's parikarma, TarnTaran Sahib, and Nankana Sahib - it was no longer safe for anyone to even visit these Gurdwaras. Thankfully the new organizations emerged during the Singh Sabha movement such as the Khalsa Diwans, Panch Khalsa Diwans, Gargajj Akali and others, who launched countless morchas and agitations and sacrificed immensely to free our Gurdwara from the evil mahants. Oddly, many Nirmalays, Udaasees, and Nihangs sided with the corrupt mahants and thus lost their veneration in the Panth. Naturally, newer organizations emerged to fill this void. Most modern samperdais/deras/dals are really a byproduct of Nirmalay-Singh Sabha associated Sants some of whom played a vital part in the Singh Sabha Lehar and or the Gurdwara Sudhar Lehar. Never the less, they still carried on many Nirmala oriented traditions such as giving Amrit in separate Battas or making Amrit with a Kirpan for women and for lower castes, etc. This and other practices such as banning Karah parshad to lower casters was also practiced at Sri Akal Takht Sahib until the Singh Sabha and the Khalsa Diwan groups brought an end to this practice. Oddly this discrimination during Amrit Sanchar continued in many samperdais and dera well into the 1970's. I believe Tarnal Dal discontinued it in the 1970's, and by the Mehta Taksal when Sant Jarnail Singh Ji's took over. Even though Sikhs claim be the religion of equality, hidden forms of discrimination still exists against women in many organizations and institutions of the Panth - even at Sri Darbar Sahib, Amritsar Sahib. No modern Sikh organization, except the Khalsa Panth itself, can claim lineage Guru Sahib or claim to be following the *ORIGINAL MARYADA*. Those who claim this are ignorant of their own history. Those who claim this should be asked where was their *PRINSTINE MARYADA* during Ranjit Singh's time and the dark period of 100 years afterwards? They will have no real answer.