Homosexuality in Sikhism

[ravindersidhu 2]

Gupt daasan daas and sher punjabi r right

[Deg_Teg_Fateh 0]

I dont get this...I mean, they havent yet shown any proof of defects or differences in the structure of the brain in gay people(from wat ive learnt), so why is it even being considered an okay thingi? (sorry if I offend neone). Its just personal choice since most of them reach puberty and then realize they are gay I would think its coz of the media and stuff. Then, wouldnt it be Kaam? And from the above post, It sure does explain that it is FORBIDDEN in Sikhi.

(we had a similar discussion in class a while ago, and my fellow Christian classmates said that it IS fully forbidden in Christianity as well, plus they brought quotes from the New Testament, cant rem the verse n chap tho)

Bhul chook maaf

[Khalsa4ever 5]

Waheguroo jee ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo jee kee Fateh!

I'm not going to put my vote either way, but I just have a couple points to consider. First, its true that most gay people probably only know they are gay after puberty... but then the same goes with heterosexuals (most kids don't have "attractions" to others). However, genes have been shown in various animals to determine sexual preference.

But whats true is that our purpose here is to rise above our desires and lusts. But does that mean heterosexuality over homosexuality? I don't know... like I haven't seen ANY gurbani which accepts one type of "preference" over the other... and I haven't heard any sakhis either which refer to this...

Waheguroo jee ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo jee kee Fateh!

[kiran_k 0]

im sorry but homosexuality is not a "choice". Do you really think homosexuals would "choose" to be classed as abnormal from soceity, many homosexuals are cut off from their families as a result of their sexuality. Many are isolated from their communities and cultures because its been drilled into soceity that gays are "wrong" and "unnatural". do u really think homosexuals like being insulted by friends/family/others. dont you think if it was a choice they would choose to be straight, marry the opposite sex, have children, walk down the road holding hands with the person they love, be accepted by their families, rather than go through the hassle that homosexuals go through.

So if homosexaulity is a choice. Please tell me when all of you woke up and decided you were straight?

[Ambrosia 3]

What about Love....

If someone truly loves, then they dont care about the gender, form, shape, caste, creed, culture, religion, la la la of the person/people that they love. They just love them, however they are... without judgements, without limits and barriers and conditions.

I want to emphasize that Im not talking about lust here. I think, any relationship gay or straight that is based on lust, is not what Sikhism subscribes to. Therefore I'm talking about love.

I'm sure many would agree that the best partnership someone could have, is with someone that they love. In this way both can grow spiritually together, have full trust in one another, be best friends as well as perhaps lovers (note: lovers is different than lusters for a reason).

If someone ends up falling in love with someone of the same sex, I dont see the harm with it, as long as its not about lust. If the focus is spiritual, then let it be... let things happen as Guru Ji makes them happen (Know this well, He himself is all).

[naam_jap 2]

Gur Fateh,

There are a couple of posts where people are saying that homosexuality etc is forbidden in sikhi. This totally goes against the teachings, Guru Nanak Dev Ji said "The whole human race is one". Noone is any different then anyone.

By what I figure is forbidden is the lust aspect of it or the sexual aspect of it. But sexual desires are forbidden unless they are out of true love and your only partner in life. One soul in two bodies..

I agree with ambrosia post's also on true love.. also i think sooner or later if the love is true spiritual love then it will break apart every illusion of attachment, and ego and will form unconditional love for all. Its a progressive stage.

Also great points posted by sher_punjabi.. <_<

There is another issue of gay marriage or lesbian marriage.. this is not our business and i think we should not interfere here as it will likely result in hurting others feelings and taking their rights away, whereas Sikhism has equal rights for all.

[Pheena 1]

i read many of you it is 'forbidden' in Sikh(ism) Who deciddes what is forbidden and what isn't?

[K. SINGH DEEP 15]

WJKK WJKF

Hi everybody, im new here.

Im doing an extensive research coursework thing in Religious studies AS level and obviously i ve chosen sikhism. so far i have covered most subjects well but when the topic of homosexuality came up, i realised i knew nothing.

So i was wondering if anyone could tell me what the view on homosexuality is?

Thanks so much

Kiran x x

WJKK WJKF

Hi everybody, im new here.

Im doing an extensive research coursework thing in Religious studies AS level and obviously i ve chosen sikhism. so far i have covered most subjects well but when the topic of homosexuality came up, i realised i knew nothing.

So i was wondering if anyone could tell me what the view on homosexuality is?

Thanks so much

Kiran x x

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI FATEH.

In

[K. SINGH DEEP 15]

well some people will look at the subject of Sex and say it is only to be done as it were for reproductive perpose, as its kaam. one of the 5 vices and therefore can only take place between two people of the opposite sex.

In sikhi we look at marriage as binding 2 souls forming a union and becoming 1. another thing why Sikhs would see it as wrong and against Sikhi is because Akaal Takath has said the homosexuality isnt acceptable.

maaeiaa kaam viaapiaa samajhai naahee gaavaar ||

Engrossed in Maya and sexual desire, the fool does not understand.

I have very little to no knowledge to none at all, i suggest refference to gurbani. www.sikhitothemax.com

i swear theres an old thread somewhere, maybe someone can find it?

Under the most pious fear ( BHAI & BHAVNI) I may submit that Gurbani gives us hints about all this as under:-

" JAH DEKHAN TEH RAV RAHE SIV SAKTI KA MAIL" means there is always combination of SIV (male ) and sakti ( female ) and this combination is spread all over the world where ever we see ( in animals too ) .This has been created by God to run the world by nature in giving birth and deaths. If this rule is broken by encouraging homosexuality, the human species will come to an ehd after some centuries like many species of animals which are almost invisible at present.

"MAA KI RAKAT PITA BIND DHARA ' and "RAKAT BIND TE NIMIA RAKHIA UDAR MAJHAR" means the human body structure develops

after conjugation of egg from moithers blood and chromosomes of father (BIND ) than the body develops in mothers uterus (UDAR). If homosexuality is encouragrd than how the featus will come into existence and who will give birth to our forth coming generations?

In plants too, fruit is formed after conjugation of male and female flowers /particles and male/female are the creatures of the great nature ( KADAR DI KUDRAT) about which GURBANI says " DOOYEE KUDRAT SAJIYE KAR ASAN DITHO CHAO" which means that the GOD afdter creating the nature himself ,is seeing and enjoying the world created under natures law.

" HUKMI HOVAN AKAR , HUKAM NA KAHYA JAAI. HUKMI HVAN JEEA HUKAM MILE VADIYAEE" and by encouraging homosexuality

we shall only be breaking the law of the nature (disobeying the HUKAM as said in the above quote ) and we are supposed rather have to abide the devine order or HUKAM as can be quoted "HUKME ANDER SABH KO BAHAR HUKAM NA KOYE, "

As such my dear sisters and brothers, children and senior citizens, please and please discurage the HOMOSEXUALITY which is nothing but cowardness of those people who are either impotent or who are having fear psychosis abot sex and nothing else.

I beg your pardon with folded hands from all the human beings whose sentiments may get hert by my above views which Iculd discuss with the KIRPA of DHAN SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI

" GURU GHAR da ik kookar"

[tiger force 0]

ur havin a laff aint u lol.. its totally against sikhi

[harjit nanua 2]

wjkk wjkf,

Sikhism practises equality. Equality to men and women, equality to any caste. Equality to any race, religion. Equality means equality. even to gays. Why not?

Also,

Sabh meh jot, jot hai soi... The light is contained in all. Did Guru Ji say, there is no jot in Gays? ek nazar.. We must see all in ek nazar... not separate people.

It's quite simple. When we make reasonings and reasonings, we are just justifying ourselves. Everyone is the same. No question about that.We humans, separate relationships and such.

wjkk wjkf.

[BhForce 1,161]

Sikhism practises equality. Equality to men and women, equality to any caste. Equality to any race, religion. Equality means equality. even to gays.

Sabh meh jot, jot hai soi... The light is contained in all. Did Guru Ji say, there is no jot in Gays? ek nazar.. We must see all in ek nazar... not separate people.

It's quite simple. When we make reasonings and reasonings, we are just justifying ourselves. Everyone is the same. No question about that.We humans, separate relationships and such.

It's somewhat of a paradox. The same bani that says "bura nahi koi" (no one is bad) also says "nigure ka nam bura" (the very name of a guruless person is bad). The same bani that says the light is within everybody also condemns thieves, adulterers, and other sinners.

To say that gays are equal to everybody else is in some sense very true. But that's also true for alcoholics, thieves, slanderers, murderers, prostitutes, and others. The desire to slander, drink, kill, gamble, fornicate and experiment, are present in every human being. The whole point of religion is to tame our wild desires.

To claim that gays are equal in the same sense that whites are equal to blacks is to suppose them to be born that way. You can't stop being black. But, depending on the definition of gay, you can stop being gay by not putting your *** in another man's ### (self-censored). The funny thing is, even though there was a big deal made a few years ago about the brains of gays being different to "normals", that research wasn't able to be sustained.

In addition, natural selection would easily have selected the homosexual trait, if any, out of the human population. A trait which leads one not to reproduce is the very definition of unfit. (This is not pro or anti evolution, or about the origin of life, just natural selection.) The only justifications for such a trait remaining are just stretches.

In traditional societies, people who, for some reason or another can't or don't want to fit into normal society, are tolerated on the periphery. What gays want in the modern era, however, is a place at the very center of society, teaching children about their lifestyle, providing community support (and recruitment), seeding/birthing and adopting children, etc.

This latter is something that many people don't want, and hence the conflict.

[Akritghan 2]

In Sree Guroo Dasam Granth Sahib Jee Maharaj, Dhan Dhan Sahib Sree Guroo Gobindh Singh Jee Maharaj says :

ਅਕਿ੍ੱਤ ਕਿੱਤ ਕਾਰਨੇ ਅਨਿੱਤ ਨਿੱਤ ਹੇਹਿੰਗੇ ॥ ਤਿਆਗ ਧਰਮਣੇ ॥ ਤ੍ਰੀਅੰ ਕੁਨਾਰਿ ਸਾਧ ਜੋਹਿੰਗੇ ॥

Forbidden works will always be performed; the saints abandoning the path of dharma, will look for the path of prostitutes;

ਪਵਿੱਤ੍ਰ ਚਿੱਤ੍ਰ ਚਿੱਤ੍ਰਤੰਨ ਬਚਿੱਤ੍ਰ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਧੋਹਿੰਗੇ ॥ ਅਮਿੱਤ੍ਰ ਮਿੱਤ੍ਰ ਭਾਵਣੇ ਸੁ ਮਿੱਤ੍ਰ ਅਮਿੱਤ੍ਰ ਸੋਹਿੰਗੇ ॥ ੨੬ ॥

The friendship of a queer type will wash and destroy the sanctity of friendship; the friends and enemies will go together for their self-interest. 26.

[BhForce 1,161]

In Sree Guroo Dasam Granth Sahib Jee Maharaj, Dhan Dhan Sahib Sree Guroo Gobindh Singh Jee Maharaj says :

ਪਵਿੱਤ੍ਰ ਚਿੱਤ੍ਰ ਚਿੱਤ੍ਰਤੰਨ ਬਚਿੱਤ੍ਰ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਧੋਹਿੰਗੇ ॥ ਅਮਿੱਤ੍ਰ ਮਿੱਤ੍ਰ ਭਾਵਣੇ ਸੁ ਮਿੱਤ੍ਰ ਅਮਿੱਤ੍ਰ ਸੋਹਿੰਗੇ ॥ ੨੬ ॥

The friendship of a queer type will wash and destroy the sanctity of friendship; the friends and enemies will go together for their self-interest. 26.

In India and other traditional societies it is common for men (or boys or girls) to be seen walking down the street holding hands. This doesn't mean they are homosexual, but rather just normal BFFs. I think this is a wonderful thing, as friendship is a wonderful human institution. Showing your friendship by holding hands is a beautiful expression of empathy and solidarity.

But when the sexual element is introduced to same-sex relationships, something beautiful turns quickly into something nasty. A well adjusted person restricts his fondness for the same sex to friendship, and overcomes the sex barrier to form social and sexual bonds with the opposite sex. According to Guru Nanak Dev ji in Asa di Vaar, such bonds with women are the basis of all social relations.

In a sense, homosexuality can be seen as a form of hatred of women.

[Only five 1,120]

Gur Fateh,

There are a couple of posts where people are saying that homosexuality etc is forbidden in sikhi. This totally goes against the teachings, Guru Nanak Dev Ji said "The whole human race is one". Noone is any different then anyone.

Sexual peference is not natural. Human choose who they like. Guru Nanak Dev ji with the above said treat everyone the same, but also he said but gurmat a head of manmat.

By what I figure is forbidden is the lust aspect of it or the sexual aspect of it. But sexual desires are forbidden unless they are out of true love and your only partner in life. One soul in two bodies..

Some feel that lust is true love and some feel greed is true love. These illusions create what is false to be seen as true.

I agree with ambrosia post's also on true love.. also i think sooner or later if the love is true spiritual love then it will break apart every illusion of attachment, and ego and will form unconditional love for all. Its a progressive stage.

If it is true love spiritually then it will follow the principle Guru Sahib laid down for us. Man marry's a women.

Also great points posted by sher_punjabi..

There is another issue of gay marriage or lesbian marriage.. this is not our business and i think we should not interfere here as it will likely result in hurting others feelings and taking their rights away, whereas Sikhism has equal rights for all.

Actually it becomes our business when these individuals try to have Guru Sahib blessing and getting married in the Gurdwara. Guru Sahib said a man and women is to get married as the Gurus did. We follow our Gurus and don't follow false reasoning some manmat has come up with.

If being a Homosexual is natural. THen if you truly look at it, committing acts of kaam, krodh etc is natural. Both are natural and both should be correct in Sikhi. You can't have the best of both worlds and say one is correct and other is wrong. Both are to be avoided.