Slurs 'n' Simran - at 1984 June Rally

[Kumi2]

im sayin that the best slogon i heard was indian goverment is a nazi nation or indian goverment is terrorist nation

[Jaspaul Singh]

You found "INDIRA KUTHEE... MAARO JUTHI"  offensive. I find that the she killed thousands of people offesive. It's too bad your feelings were hurt. Next time you grab the sign and start ripping it up and yell at people that you find it offensive(make sure you do this infront of media for max exposure)

103348[/snapback]

Veerji i understand how you must feel but i am sure NAMA SINGH feels that way to of what she did in the past...

BUT !!! .. he is stating SIMRAN AND SWEARING on the same lines.. and he is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT !!! I would have been hurt too ....

.. waheguroo help us

[All-Info]

Gurfateh!!

With regards to flag degredation and spitting etc. these are not things a Gursikh should participate in. The media wants to pick out these images as we all know the media is only after bad news. It is images like this that can be damaging to the whole Panth.

Flag degredation may not be against the law in the UK, but it is extremely dangerous to cause fires in public places.

Why is it in the photos of those participating in the burning of flags and that indira model their faces have been blurred. We have established that it is not against the law, but i believe is anti Guramt and those of you do take part know it to and it is the Sangat you are afraid from.

These images shows us as being violent, intolerant, revengeful and anti social.

How are we ever going to attain justice for the victims of 84 when governments see us like this???

Sikhi does not promote revenge or intolerance, we are a peace loving society and it is that , that we strive to achieve.

Gurfateh!!

103358[/snapback]

no offence to ANYONE when saying this, but i could have sworn i remember people saying this wouldnt happen this year??

Hence i said if stuff like this does happen, i would rather not be branded with the same attrocities of that which given half the chance the Indian Government would do to Nishan Sahib.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji didnt go round burning flahs and dolls of the mughal emperor when his children we killed!! He did what? Wrote a letter! Praising him! He told him he was king of kings yet cudnt see through his own eyes!!!

If Sikhi is gona promote this type of imagery then Sikhi is lost! Its all good doing Paath and Simran but when it comes to the Crunch!! Who is the media gona show? Peace or Violence? I think violence!! The rep centre is ya perfect example!! 7days of protesting no media footage. 7mins of rushing the joint and we on the news for days!!!! We even had it named after us! "Sikh Riot Theatre!!!!"

Last yr in July when Al Majaroun were gona convert our sisters on stage we went to london for a kick off in mind. What did we do instead? We sat down and did Paath. The IMPACT was amazing!!! As BNP were there for a fight and the people were shocked how we cud sit there and not fight!!! The police themselves were asking questions and were then wanting to know more about Sikhi! A religion that tries ALL OTHER MEANS before picking up the sword!

I dont condemn the violence, its persons choice, but theres a time and a place, 1984 rally's thru Hyde Park arnt the place or the time...

Sorry if i have offended anyone, im sure many will have taken offense and be quick to question if i myself was there. The answer is no, i wasnt. Why? Because i knew this would happen and prefered to spend the time remembering the Shaheeds doing Simran for them with my Guru.

WJKK WJKF

[`KuMi´]

Pitha Jee wasnt afraid to use these words, in his granth Pitha jee used in triya chirtar words like (buthha and lan ) this is still gurbani, and I respect it.

All Im trying to say, this lingual can be used as a describing term insted of a swareing term.

[amorphous_singh]

Paaji,

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Last yr in July when Al Majaroun were gona convert our sisters on stage we went to london for a kick off in mind. What did we do instead? We sat down and did Paath. The IMPACT was amazing!!! As BNP were there for a fight and the people were shocked how we cud sit there and not fight!!! The police themselves were asking questions and were then wanting to know more about Sikhi! A religion that tries ALL OTHER MEANS before picking up the sword!

There was plenty of this on Sunday as well. I saw so many Sikhs (old and young) interacting with the general public. In fact more than I have seen for many years and many were taking a genuine interest and taking leaflets and asking more questions. While stopping for a loo break at Green Park tube station; I was approached by one family who wanted to know more and left saying that they were unware of such matters previously. They also remarked at how big the march was (in their eyes) and how we had attracted their attention.

I dont condemn the violence, its persons choice, but theres a time and a place, 1984 rally's thru Hyde Park arnt the place or the time...

There was no violence; there was a undeniably a flag burning which lasted a few minutes - but there was no violence. Accuracy is all important.

Sorry if i have offended anyone, im sure many will have taken offense and be quick to question if i myself was there. The answer is no, i wasnt. Why? Because i knew this would happen and prefered to spend the time remembering the Shaheeds doing Simran for them with my Guru.

None take. No one can condemn your dedication to remembering our Shaheeds.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Nidhi]

GurFateh..

http://www.ektaone.com/PHOTOS/2005/hydepar..._120605_094.htm

http://www.ektaone.com/PHOTOS/2005/hydepar..._120605_470.htm

http://www.ektaone.com/PHOTOS/2005/hydepar..._120605_461.htm

Seeing these pictures made this mind think... UK pyaare GurSikhs??

A Gurmukh ji once wrote:

I AM JUST MAKING YOU THINK ABOUT THINGS A BIT DEEPER THAN THE AVERAGE

JOE, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE RESULTANT EMOTION IS NEGATIVE EG OUTRAGE.  LET

THAT BE YOUR JUDGE.  AFTER YOU HAVE READ ANYTINH ON RELIGION OR HEARD

ANYTHING ABOUT RELIGION AND THEN APPLIED UR LOGIC TO A NEW SITUATION, IF YOU

END UP IN A NEGATIVE STATE OF MIND..THEN IT TELLS U UR LOGIC WAS WRONG. THEN U HAVE NOT COMPREHENDED THE LOVE OF GOD.

BECAUSE GOD IS LOVE AND TRUE WISDOM WILL LEAD YOUR MIND INTO THE HOUSE OF

LOVE, EVEN FOR YOUR ENEMIES.  BANI SAYS KISS THE FEET OF THE ONES WHO BEAT

YOU WITH FISTS....ULTIMATE LOVE AND COMPASSION.

Was really astonished by these pictures. Being a learner of sikhi, I asked for guidance from the same Gurmukh.

GurMukh ji:

about the pictures...what feeling did you get from them?  what sense did

you get about the state of mind of the people in the pictures?  Personally

i saw faces with no spiritual light on them, no light of God radiating from

their hearts.  Which was highlighted by the fact of burning the flag ..not

that i care for any particular nationality as that is also another man-made

barrier, and God has no barriers.  Butthe act of burning the flag was to

show how much they hate the Indian Government for killing 25000 Sikhs.

Basic pyschology is "you hurt me, I hate YOU."    That is the durmat - evil

wisdom generated by the mind of someone who has no understanding of God.

So even though they are going under the banner of Sikhism, but following a

totally non-sikh wisdom "you hurt me, I hate you."

And the reason they have no light of God shining on their face, is because

that one phrase has become deeply embeded in their subsconscious over the

last 20 years.  It has drained their divine energy , their life force -

their amrit.      They are totally unaware they are just playnig out their

karma  like actors in a story following the script.  If they had had

Gurprasad - Guru's grace upon them, if God had looked down upon them and

wanted to release them outof their mental anguish, they would have realised

a higher consciousness way to deal with this situation.  They would have

seen they could apply gurbani to this situation, they would have not let

ego and anger burn their mind and body, and then leading them to burn the

flags.

Look at the Dalai Lama, he is the spiritual leader of the tibetans.  In

1959 China annexed Tibet and suffered no less than Sikhs in India over the

last 25 years.  Many monks escaped to India like Dalai Lama.  Many other

monks were tortured and killed.  Chinese army knew monks were the leaders

and by destroying them all resistance would be killed off - similar to what

happened in punjab.  But how have they responded compared to how these

sikhs are responding?  Their first and  highest belief is COMPASSION.  One

monk was tortured with a cattleprod giving him electric shocks in mouth and

private parts, he managed to escape and when Dalai Lama asked him what was

the greates danger you faced he replied ,"I almost lost my compassion for

the Chinese."

Gurbani teaches the same philosphy , that religion is the son of compassion

..dharam daya ka pooth.  Compassion has to come first , especially for you

enemy.  ITs easy to save your followers, bu the true saint will save his

enemies too.  Guru arjun dev ji says 'i have made the whole world int my

friend."  If the Guru ji never hated the Moghuls for torturing him for 5

days and nights, then he wouldnt want His Sikhs to carry hate in their

hearts either.

What Sikhs havent realised is that its not India army and Indian Governemt

to blame.  Its all to do with Karma.  Its Gods law, everything that

happened upto this very moment was all under God's HUKAM , bani says not

even one leaf moves without God willing it.  Guru Arjun Dev ji wrote "Dont

blame anyone for what is happening, accept that you are reaping what you

have sown."    IT means that on a personal level each one ofose killed in

Punjab had karma to repay with their killers, and those two soul ...killer

and killed will carry on travelling thru time and space until the debt is

cancelled.  And now 20 years later, the ones who are protesting viloently

have sown hate into their heart and are reaping violence as the crop.  When

the vilounce in their mind spills over into viloent actions against another

soul, then they have made karma with that soul for their future lifetimes.

And all the karma they are generating will keep them in the cycle of birth

and death even more.

If you look at how the Budhists have bounced back after 1959 its

incredible.  Their philosphy has left Tibet, entered India, gone to USA and

around the world they have millions of western followers.  Films have been

made inhollywood of their struggle.  Peacefule protests continue, public

support is for them.  Everyone sees china as the oppressor, and budhists

bas being humble kind and caring people.

Look at the sikh protest, and which member of the general public will want

to give their support to people who burn flags, who are angry , bitter and

full of hate?  Infact it makes outiseders think ..hey you sikhs really are

quite violent, perhaps you were terroists like the indian government?

In this day and age pen i smightier than the sword, love and comapssion is

greater than angry and viloence.  Peaceful protest spreading the fragrance

of gurbani, like the dalai lama does, is better than burning flags.

dustofurfeet!

-keep smiling-

[atl singh]

the cursing was not really needed. but the burning of a flag. their is nothing wrong with burning the flag. they burnt our people and we cant even burn a flag???

[waheguru_fateh]

You found "INDIRA KUTHEE... MAARO JUTHI"  offensive. I find that the she killed thousands of people offesive. It's too bad your feelings were hurt. Next time you grab the sign and start ripping it up and yell at people that you find it offensive(make sure you do this infront of media for max exposure)

103348[/snapback]

so u think swearing by guru maharaji is not offensive

[TheVampire]

GurFateh..

http://www.ektaone.com/PHOTOS/2005/hydepar..._120605_094.htm

http://www.ektaone.com/PHOTOS/2005/hydepar..._120605_470.htm 

http://www.ektaone.com/PHOTOS/2005/hydepar..._120605_461.htm 

Seeing these pictures made this mind think... UK pyaare GurSikhs??  

A Gurmukh ji once wrote:

I AM JUST MAKING YOU THINK ABOUT THINGS A BIT DEEPER THAN THE AVERAGE

JOE, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE RESULTANT EMOTION IS NEGATIVE EG OUTRAGE.  LET

THAT BE YOUR JUDGE.  AFTER YOU HAVE READ ANYTINH ON RELIGION OR HEARD

ANYTHING ABOUT RELIGION AND THEN APPLIED UR LOGIC TO A NEW SITUATION, IF YOU

END UP IN A NEGATIVE STATE OF MIND..THEN IT TELLS U UR LOGIC WAS WRONG. THEN U HAVE NOT COMPREHENDED THE LOVE OF GOD.

BECAUSE GOD IS LOVE AND TRUE WISDOM WILL LEAD YOUR MIND INTO THE HOUSE OF

LOVE, EVEN FOR YOUR ENEMIES.  BANI SAYS KISS THE FEET OF THE ONES WHO BEAT

YOU WITH FISTS....ULTIMATE LOVE AND COMPASSION.

Was really astonished by these pictures. Being a learner of sikhi, I asked for guidance from the same Gurmukh.

GurMukh ji:

about the pictures...what feeling did you get from them?  what sense did

you get about the state of mind of the people in the pictures?  Personally

i saw faces with no spiritual light on them, no light of God radiating from

their hearts.  Which was highlighted by the fact of burning the flag ..not

that i care for any particular nationality as that is also another man-made

barrier, and God has no barriers.  Butthe act of burning the flag was to

show how much they hate the Indian Government for killing 25000 Sikhs.

Basic pyschology is "you hurt me, I hate YOU."    That is the durmat - evil

wisdom generated by the mind of someone who has no understanding of God.

So even though they are going under the banner of Sikhism, but following a

totally non-sikh wisdom "you hurt me, I hate you."

And the reason they have no light of God shining on their face, is because

that one phrase has become deeply embeded in their subsconscious over the

last 20 years.  It has drained their divine energy , their life force -

their amrit.      They are totally unaware they are just playnig out their

karma  like actors in a story following the script.  If they had had

Gurprasad - Guru's grace upon them, if God had looked down upon them and

wanted to release them outof their mental anguish, they would have realised

a higher consciousness way to deal with this situation.  They would have

seen they could apply gurbani to this situation, they would have not let

ego and anger burn their mind and body, and then leading them to burn the

flags.

Look at the Dalai Lama, he is the spiritual leader of the tibetans.  In

1959 China annexed Tibet and suffered no less than Sikhs in India over the

last 25 years.  Many monks escaped to India like Dalai Lama.  Many other

monks were tortured and killed.  Chinese army knew monks were the leaders

and by destroying them all resistance would be killed off - similar to what

happened in punjab.  But how have they responded compared to how these

sikhs are responding?  Their first and  highest belief is COMPASSION.  One

monk was tortured with a cattleprod giving him electric shocks in mouth and

private parts, he managed to escape and when Dalai Lama asked him what was

the greates danger you faced he replied ,"I almost lost my compassion for

the Chinese."

Gurbani teaches the same philosphy , that religion is the son of compassion

..dharam daya ka pooth.  Compassion has to come first , especially for you

enemy.  ITs easy to save your followers, bu the true saint will save his

enemies too.  Guru arjun dev ji says 'i have made the whole world int my

friend."  If the Guru ji never hated the Moghuls for torturing him for 5

days and nights, then he wouldnt want His Sikhs to carry hate in their

hearts either.

What Sikhs havent realised is that its not India army and Indian Governemt

to blame.  Its all to do with Karma.  Its Gods law, everything that

happened upto this very moment was all under God's HUKAM , bani says not

even one leaf moves without God willing it.  Guru Arjun Dev ji wrote "Dont

blame anyone for what is happening, accept that you are reaping what you

have sown."    IT means that on a personal level each one ofose killed in

Punjab had karma to repay with their killers, and those two soul ...killer

and killed will carry on travelling thru time and space until the debt is

cancelled.  And now 20 years later, the ones who are protesting viloently

have sown hate into their heart and are reaping violence as the crop.  When

the vilounce in their mind spills over into viloent actions against another

soul, then they have made karma with that soul for their future lifetimes.

And all the karma they are generating will keep them in the cycle of birth

and death even more.

If you look at how the Budhists have bounced back after 1959 its

incredible.  Their philosphy has left Tibet, entered India, gone to USA and

around the world they have millions of western followers.  Films have been

made inhollywood of their struggle.  Peacefule protests continue, public

support is for them.  Everyone sees china as the oppressor, and budhists

bas being humble kind and caring people.

Look at the sikh protest, and which member of the general public will want

to give their support to people who burn flags, who are angry , bitter and

full of hate?  Infact it makes outiseders think ..hey you sikhs really are

quite violent, perhaps you were terroists like the indian government?

In this day and age pen i smightier than the sword, love and comapssion is

greater than angry and viloence.  Peaceful protest spreading the fragrance

of gurbani, like the dalai lama does, is better than burning flags.

dustofurfeet!

-keep smiling-

103443[/snapback]

I think this bring to question the whole philosophy of Sikhism.

Why did not Guru Gobind Singh Ji not show compassion to the Moghals, the hill rajas and others who he fought.

Why did he proclaim it is right to pick up the sword when all other peaceful means have failed?

Why not keep showing compassion and die for this compassion.

Is it permissable to use violence for Sikhs or not?

No wonder Sikhism is so disperate and factional.

One group believes it is right us use/display violence.

Another views it as wrong and proclaims that compassion should be shown at all times.

According to the above post, the impression is created that violence is not called for in any situation.

Nidhi, maybe Guru Gobind Singh Ji and the other 'violent' Gursikhs got it wrong?

[Nidhi]

Im sure ur right virji!

With my petit knowledge... Guru Gobind Singh ji was a saint-soldier.

It's first a saint and then a soldier.

And a saint always handles his situation with compassion, weather it be a physical or mental struggle.

"You hurt me, I hate YOU." That is the durmat - evil

wisdom"

&

" ITs easy to save your followers, bu the true saint will save his

enemies too. Guru arjun dev ji says 'i have made the whole world int my

friend." If the Guru ji never hated the Moghuls for torturing him for 5

days and nights, then he wouldnt want His Sikhs to carry hate in their

hearts either."

-says it all.

Something more written by the same GurMukh:

WORK ON THE INSIDE FIRST.  REMEMBER GURU GOBIND SINGH JI SAID BECOME

SANT-SIPAHEE ..SAINT-WARRIOR, MEANS BECOME SAINT FIRST, THEN WARRIOR.

TROUBLE IS EVERYONE RUSHES INTO SIKHI AND WANTS TO BE A WARRIOR.  IF U WANT

THE BEST ADVICE FROM ME  WORK ON BEING SANT FIRST ..MEANS MAKING YOUR HEART

PURE ENOUGH FOR GOD TO COME AND HAVE UNION WITH YOU.  THEN LET GOD MAKE

YOU INTO WARRIOR OR WHATEVER HE WANTS YOU TO DO IN THE WORLD.

and

NOW YOU KNOW WHY BANI SAYS THIS PATH IS SHARPER THAN A SWORD AND FINER

THAN A HAIR, THIS IS THE PATH OF SAINTS.  IF YOU WANT TO BE WITH GOD ,

THEN YOU HAE TO EAT IRON ..MEANS YOU HAVE TO CONQUOR THE MOST DIFFICULT

MONSTER OF THEM ALL..UR OWN MIND, AND ITS ATTITUDES, ITS RESISTANCE TO

CHANGE, ITS NEGATIVITY ETC.

and

GURU GOBIND SINGH JI DIDNT SAY THAT "ONLY

THOSE WHO LOVE GOD ATTAINS HIM" FOR NOTHING.  IT IS ABSOLUTE TRUTH.    BE

A LOVER OF GOD, NOT A NARROW MINDED RELGIOUS HATEFUL PERSON.

and

DONT WORRY ABOUT YOUR ENEMIES OR GETTING JUSTICE ETC

..BANI SAYS EVERYONE HAS GOT THEIR OWN FATE.  YOUR JOB IS FINISH YOU

SPIRITUAL JOURNEY, NOT TO FIGHT EVERYONE AROUND YOU.