2nd Generation Sikh Fanaticism

[akjforever]

I am still waiting for a reply to my post(#109) sureal69.

[singhmota]

mhlw 2 ]

mehalaa 2 ||

Second Mehl:

slwmu jbwbu dovY kry muMFhu GuQw jwie ]

salaam jabaab dhovai karae mu(n)dtahu ghuthhaa jaae ||

One who bows and at the same time questions his master, has gone wrong from the very beginning.

nwnk dovY kUVIAw Qwie n kweI pwie ]2]

naanak dhovai koorreeaa thhaae n kaaee paae ||2||

O Nanak, both of his actions are false; he obtains no place in the Abode of Akalpurakh||2||

This whole thing about guru ji wanting peoples heads is absurd, everything is upon interpretation. What is within the guru granth sahib to me is sacred. If Guru Gobind Singh had deemed it important, he would have placed within the Guru Granth. If it ain't there, then I'm not going to bother with it. He had every opportunity to list a group of laws and conventions within our Granth Sahib. HE DID NOT. That tells you alot.

How about this............................

jau qau pRym Kylx kw cwau ]

jo tho praem khaelan kaa chaao ||

If you desire to play this game of love with Me,

isru Dir qlI glI myrI Awau ]

sir dhhar thalee galee maeree aao ||

then step onto My Path with your head in hand.

iequ mwrig pYru DrIjY ]

eith maarag pair dhhareejai ||

When you place your feet on this Path,

isru dIjY kwix n kIjY ]20]

sir dheejai kaan n keejai ||20||

give Me your head, and do not pay any attention to public opinion. ||20||

This is in Guru Granth Sahib...................hope your idea of Guru Sahib NOT asking for Head is nulled now........Do you agree you were wrong in your Statement?????

The guru granth Sahib starts out with Ik Oh Onkar. Onkar is a jain word for god. If Guru Nanak would have wanted us to refer to God in only one name he would not have used Ram, Gopal or any other word. Sikhism is a complex religion that cannot be simplified. Like I said before to experience the complete experience of Sikhism one must focus your energies on Gurbani.

Can you give a reference where it says that ONKAR is Jain word? I will be greatful to you for your help regarding this.

Following whatever rules that your local Baba or the person that gave you amrit or whom ever you consider to be your spiritual guide. If you're spiritual guide isn't Gurbani, then you'll fall prey to all the things that I've been discussing in the thread.

Spiritual Guide is Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which is the ORDER/WORD/INSTRUCTION of the AKALPURAKH as revealed to Guru Sahiban, Bhagat Sahiban and Gursikhs. Your comments that local Baba or the person that gave you amrit are pointers that you are UNAWARE of how amrit is administered.

The second point which I do disagree with you on is, Gurbani was never intended to the word of God. Everyone seems to often refer to the Guru's as if they were godlike or god. As I remember it, they said they were inspired by their love for god or his love for us. I do not remember but maybe I was asleep on the day at the Gurudwara when they covered the fact that the Guru's said god spoke to them.

Very important difference. Most other religions dervie their authority from the fact that "God Spoke to Me". Sikhism says that we have written these words out of our love for god and inspired by not him but our love for him.

Please clarify. Later.

114476[/snapback]

siqgur kI bwxI siq siq kir jwxhu gurisKhu hir krqw Awip muhhu kFwey ]

sathigur kee baanee sath sath kar jaanahu gurasikhahu har karathaa aap muhahu kadtaaeae ||

O GurSikhs, know that the Bani, the Word of the True Guru, is true, absolutely true. The Creator Lord Himself causes the Guru to chant it.

That is what OUR Guru Sahib said what Gurbani IS......your definition that Gurbani is not the word of AKALPURAKH is WRONG in TOTALITY.

Give an example from the Gurbani itself that Gurbani is not the Word of Akalpurakh. I am waiting for your reply.

[Khalsa_starr]

I am still waiting for a reply to my post(#109) sureal69.

114509[/snapback]

He's probably long gone akj...

[sureal69]

I am still waiting for a reply to my post(#109) sureal69.

114509[/snapback]

He's probably long gone akj...

114545[/snapback]

I'm sure you'll be perplexed to learn that I am still here, although tied up at the moment. This isn't a chess game or point counter point for me. I'm not interested in a battle of wills or intellect. I am genuinly here to learn, if I am wrong so be it. I will have learned and then corrected mine own misconceptions.

Khalsa Starr, in your #109 post you had not asked a direct question but now you seem to want an answer to your post. Typically in the english language when one asks a question the sentence is ended with a "?". You seem to imply I am in some way evading the question or selectively answering what I am will or able to answer.

Both assesments of yours are wrong. Ask a question "?" so shall you recieve an answer. Otherwise wait an eternity, brooding and pretending that others are avoiding you. I'm sure this isn't the first time others have been confused by your so called comments masquerading as question. I just hope its the last.

So once again "#109" post, what is your question?

[akjforever]

First of all post 109 is my post not Khalsa_starrs'. If you want a ? mark at the end of my post I can put one there. When I said to answer to my post I didn't say that I wanted you to answer my question, because I didn't ask you one. I want your reaction to my post. You can give smart comebacks and question Guru Sahib's rehat and give excuses to not follow it. But only do you have the right to question GurSikhi Rehat IF you have followed it. Judging from your posts you have not. Take it from me the day you start following GurSikh Rehat you will understand its importance. But if you choose to make smart quips demeaning rehat then I guess we will leave it at that. It is human nature to mock or question something you don't understand. Understanding only comes from execution.

Talk is Cheap. Take some action, then talk.

[buddasingh]

....

I find that Sikhs are more and more focusing on their outward appearance

....

If you’ve read this far you’ll be happy to know... I wear a turban ...

113780[/snapback]

Should we conclude from the above that you out of modesty wear your turban inside your stomach lining?

Sureal, nice english, I see you've mastered the masters language, but not the master. You harbour such passion about fanaticism... or should we say you harbour such fanaticism about passion?

Welcome to the forum. :nihungsmile:

114424[/snapback]

I do not understand a thing you are saying, maybe thats because you're an <banned word filter activated>. Write in coherant sentences if you want people to take you seriously. What is that about my turban inside my stomach? Very weird.

114473[/snapback]

Sureal, I’m disappointed, when I ask for my share of amusement from you, you end up rather feeble. Such a strong reaction for someone “not understanding a thing” don't you think? Is that all it took to transform you from eloquent to unraveled?

Your own stark contradiction quoted back to you can be difficult to understand.

[gurmeetjodhey]

i have nothing to tell but a question

When Navam Nanak - Shri Guru Teg Bahadur ji martyred Guru Gobind Singh ji was only 9 years old

When Khalsa was born he was 42/43 years.

Why he took such a long time to implement the decision he taken at the very time when he embarrassed Bhai Jeta ji who brought the sacred Head of great Guru on his own life's peril.

I believe that he was not only planning the perfect way, system, style, time, even people to participate, but experimented, tested and checked through out this time span of over 32 years the perfection he want.

And then the baisakhi of 1699.

And you people question the outer stuff which he decided by experimenting on his own. give up brothers.

[sureal69]

....

I find that Sikhs are more and more focusing on their outward appearance

....

If you’ve read this far you’ll be happy to know... I wear a turban ...

113780[/snapback]

Should we conclude from the above that you out of modesty wear your turban inside your stomach lining?

Sureal, nice english, I see you've mastered the masters language, but not the master. You harbour such passion about fanaticism... or should we say you harbour such fanaticism about passion?

Welcome to the forum. :nihungsmile:

114424[/snapback]

I do not understand a thing you are saying, maybe thats because you're an <banned word filter activated>. Write in coherant sentences if you want people to take you seriously. What is that about my turban inside my stomach? Very weird.

114473[/snapback]

Sureal, I’m disappointed, when I ask for my share of amusement from you, you end up rather feeble. Such a strong reaction for someone “not understanding a thing” don't you think? Is that all it took to transform you from eloquent to unraveled?

Your own stark contradiction quoted back to you can be difficult to understand.

114572[/snapback]

I am almost always unraveled but just the very thought that I had you convinced that I may have been eloquent amuses me. My friend give yourself credit you are far more eloquent than I. Still you leave your comments shrouded in mystery, what was that about turbans and stomach linings? I still find it weird.

Please do not hide the higher meaning, I'm sure there is one hidden in this riddle you pose about digestible turbans.

[sewak sikh]

Hi All!

What I wanted to cover is this seeming fanaticism among young Sikhs raised within western cultures. It seems as if either you’re not sikh or you’re overly sikh.

The things I want to cover:

1) Facial hair obsession with respect to sikh women. If you’re a girl and you shave or wax then you’re not sikh.

2) If you’re a woman and you don’t wear a turban then you’re not sikh.

3) If you’re a guy and you don’t wear a turban then you’re not a sikh.

4) Numerous references to being guru ji’s prince and princesses?!?!? What?!? This is all new to me, sorry if I don’t follow.

5) This whole taksaal thing now what is that all about. Just because Sikhism in a small way was defended by the jathedar we all know and love (Bhindrinwale) doesn’t make that taksaal the end all and be all of Sikhism.

For every thousand men that attack the leaves of a tree (problem) only one man attacks the roots.

I truly believe that this taksaal stuff has got to end, along with all of these baabas. I find that Sikhs are more and more focusing on their outward appearance in order to impress each other or how many hours of path they can do etc..

Please focus on yourself since Sikhism is an inward journey of personal self discovery and union with god.

I don’t remember the Guru granth sahib chatting about how big someone’s turban is or which aunti has the longest beard. Lets face it, beards, turbans and moustaches on women do not look attractive. Wear either at your own peril, either you will look foolish or worse. If you’ve read this far you’ll be happy to know I'm a guy and I wear a turban and have been a proud sikh for many years.

I wanted to respond to all the <banned word filter activated> on this board because I’m frankly fed up with this new found western fanaticism. Get a life, read and understand the guru granth sahib and then come back and talk to me. I write this because last week we had some family over at my house for dinner. My girl cousins who are sikh but cut their hair had a chance encounter at my house with my dad’s family friends who’s daughters wear turbans. My girl cousins are rather fashion conscious and very good looking, but are not wild drinking party animals. However the girls wearing turbans treated them as if they were wh**s who had no morals whatsoever. It was as if they acted and this is a quote “Guru ji’s princesses” and above anyone who doesn’t wear a turban. GET A LIFE! That’s how you drive away anyone who may even be remotely interested in the religion.

As for being Khalastani, well first someone explain to me what khalistan will be and then maybe I’ll believe in it. Not some utopian society, but lets face it the same people who run the gurudwaras will be running khalistan. Trust me it will be that bad, would you move there? I think not. If you’re silly enough to think I’m some non-sikh, writing this then you are even beyond hope. Give me some clear answers and a rational discussion not uptopian societies and superficial benchmarks regarding faith. Or is it always going to be the one with the longest beard and biggest turban wins? Trust me our parents have been at it for generations, nothing new, same old same old. Just that we’re fighting with each other in English.

113780[/snapback]

U TALKED ABT MANY THINGS

BUT I SEE UR CONCENTRATION AREA WAS FACIAL HAIR AND ALL THAT

LETS LEAVE THAT OUT

DO U KNOW WHY THIS HAPPENS DHAN GURU NANK DEV JI MAHRAJ SAY THAT:

"PURKH MEH NAR NAR MEH PURKHA BHUJHO BRAHM GIANI"

SO THE ATTRACTION IS OF OPPOSITE ONE

THAT IS WHY FACIAL HAIRS GROW FOR WOMEN AND MEN WANT TO LOOK LIKE WOMEN THAT IS WHY THEY SHAVE

THAT'S IN STRAIGHT WORDS KAAM VASHNA

SO CUTTING ANY HAIRS IS AN OFFENSE IN SIKHI

AND U SAY TURBANS FOR WOMEN

OH SIKHA MAAN KAR TERE RELIGION WICH BIBIYA NU BAROBA DA MAAN DITA GAYA HAI SO DONT CRY FOR TURBANS AND ALL

DO WHAREVER U DO DEPENS ON U

KHALISTAN IS TOTALLY DIFF ISSUE MATE DONT MIX THEM UP

[singhmota]

Khalsa Starr, in your #109 post you had not asked a direct question but now you seem to want an answer to your post. Typically in the english language when one asks a question the sentence is ended with a "?". You seem to imply I am in some way evading the question or selectively answering what I am will or able to answer.

Both assesments of yours are wrong. Ask a question "?" so shall you recieve an answer. Otherwise wait an eternity, brooding and pretending that others are avoiding you. I'm sure this isn't the first time others have been confused by your so called comments masquerading as question. I just hope its the last.

So once again "#109" post, what is your question?

114556[/snapback]

sureal....post 122 has some sentences ending with question marks

So in your own words it means that you are avoiding answering them.

so STOP trying to pretend that you are better at english or what ever.

It seems you are trying to buy time by LAME EXCUSES of sentences not ending in '?' sign.

You should be intelligent enough......or should I persume that you are THICK and need a ? sign to carry on a discussion ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Hope these are enough question marks for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So once again back to post 122

Do reply to the questions and discuss the issues when you are free from your ties.