2nd Generation Sikh Fanaticism

[sureal69]

Hi All!

What I wanted to cover is this seeming fanaticism among young Sikhs raised within western cultures. It seems as if either you’re not sikh or you’re overly sikh.

The things I want to cover:

1) Facial hair obsession with respect to sikh women. If you’re a girl and you shave or wax then you’re not sikh.

2) If you’re a woman and you don’t wear a turban then you’re not sikh.

3) If you’re a guy and you don’t wear a turban then you’re not a sikh.

4) Numerous references to being guru ji’s prince and princesses?!?!? What?!? This is all new to me, sorry if I don’t follow.

5) This whole taksaal thing now what is that all about. Just because Sikhism in a small way was defended by the jathedar we all know and love (Bhindrinwale) doesn’t make that taksaal the end all and be all of Sikhism.

For every thousand men that attack the leaves of a tree (problem) only one man attacks the roots.

I truly believe that this taksaal stuff has got to end, along with all of these baabas. I find that Sikhs are more and more focusing on their outward appearance in order to impress each other or how many hours of path they can do etc..

Please focus on yourself since Sikhism is an inward journey of personal self discovery and union with god.

I don’t remember the Guru granth sahib chatting about how big someone’s turban is or which aunti has the longest beard. Lets face it, beards, turbans and moustaches on women do not look attractive. Wear either at your own peril, either you will look foolish or worse. If you’ve read this far you’ll be happy to know I'm a guy and I wear a turban and have been a proud sikh for many years.

I wanted to respond to all the <banned word filter activated> on this board because I’m frankly fed up with this new found western fanaticism. Get a life, read and understand the guru granth sahib and then come back and talk to me. I write this because last week we had some family over at my house for dinner. My girl cousins who are sikh but cut their hair had a chance encounter at my house with my dad’s family friends who’s daughters wear turbans. My girl cousins are rather fashion conscious and very good looking, but are not wild drinking party animals. However the girls wearing turbans treated them as if they were wh**s who had no morals whatsoever. It was as if they acted and this is a quote “Guru ji’s princesses” and above anyone who doesn’t wear a turban. GET A LIFE! That’s how you drive away anyone who may even be remotely interested in the religion.

As for being Khalastani, well first someone explain to me what khalistan will be and then maybe I’ll believe in it. Not some utopian society, but lets face it the same people who run the gurudwaras will be running khalistan. Trust me it will be that bad, would you move there? I think not. If you’re silly enough to think I’m some non-sikh, writing this then you are even beyond hope. Give me some clear answers and a rational discussion not uptopian societies and superficial benchmarks regarding faith. Or is it always going to be the one with the longest beard and biggest turban wins? Trust me our parents have been at it for generations, nothing new, same old same old. Just that we’re fighting with each other in English.

[rKr]

Apologies before I begin this... I'm one of these Western Fanatics on the lose.

I won't be long, just a couple of things that I just quickly wanted to mention...

I don’t remember the Guru granth sahib chatting about how big someone’s turban is or which aunti has the longest beard. Lets face it, beards, turbans and moustaches on women do not look attractive. Wear either at your own peril, either you will look foolish or worse. If you’ve read this far you’ll be happy to know I'm a guy and I wear a turban and have been a proud sikh for many years.

My girl cousins who are sikh but cut their hair

That has got to be the most absured thing I have ever read in my life... ! I think, my dear you need to take a check on your inward journey to meet with God. Let me advise you not of what I think, but of what the rehetnama, Sikh Code of Conduct states about the above.

One CAN NOT remove a kakkar from their body and continue to call themself a Sikh. A Sikh is NOT a religion or just a journey that one is born into - a SIKH a an individual who has forsaken all others and given their head to the Lord. Not just someone who attended an Amrit Sanchaar, took as much of the sweet stuff in, and left, but in fact a SIKH is one who gives their head to the Guru EVERYDAY.

A SIKH is one who listens and reads the disciplines on the Lord and applies them to their everyday life, these include keeping their head covered (be this with a keski or a patka, point is head HAS TO BE COVERED. Another of these is the keeping of KESH - be it at the "peril of themselves"

Veer, read what you have written, then try following it, I think we should be spending a lot of time with Guru Granth Saahib Jee, as you have mentioned, we should concentrate on their teachings, because reading your post, it scares me that people (including myself) who have little understanding fill the message boards with such disregard for Guru Saahibs way of Life.

Your quote above "My girl cousins who are sikh but cut their hair " is untrue, cos one is not a Sikh if they cut their hair - you may find this offensive, but this is not something I have come up with, this is what our Guru Saahiban's have told us. Being a Sikh is a WAY OF LIFE, a descipline which needs to be practised on a daily basis - 24/7 for us to call ourselves Sikhs. Cutting hair and calling yourself does NOT make you a Sikh.

In the same way as having a "Sikh" name and wearing a Kara, and a gold ring, earing and massive "b21 rule" t-shirt. That my dear is panjabi not Sikhi.

If we're western fanatics for at least being given the ability to try and follow the way of life and codes of conducts set out by our Guru Saahib, then I for one am one of the proudest fanatics on this forum, and I hope that my Lord and Master, Dhan Sri Guru Granth Saahib Jee gives me the ability to keep up this fanatacism for LIFE.

There are other issues in your post that I would love to comment on, but I'm getting late for work.

Thanks for waking up this fanatic who seemed to forget for a moment what she was doing.

Forgive me for my many mistakes.

[Balwinder Kaur]

I understand where you're coming from, surreal69 veerjee/bhainjee. I believe it was wrong of your turban-wearing friends to have treated your other cousin in that manner as though they were w**res,especially if all they did was to dress up(conservatively, i hope). True princesses and princes of Gurujee do not behave in such a discriminating manner because our Gurujee never once discriminated against anyone..That's the greatness of our Gurujee which most "fanatical"(as you put it) youths of today tend to overlook. On the other hand, I think you should try to understand where such "fanatical" youths are coming from and perhaps a compromise could be reached However, with regards to the issue of hair removal, rehat maryaadas have stated that against all odds, a sikh should never indulge in hair removal. And I believe we should adhere to that commandment of sikhee because rehat is a very important aspect of the jeevan of a sikh. Also with the issue of turban wearing and taksaal etc, that's a point of contention which I'll leave to other knowledgeable veerjees/bhainjees to address because I don't know much to comment about it. That's all... my half-cent.

[Pheena]

oh this is gona be interesting.....

[`KuMi´]

Pheena, that post is useless, so is this one i am doing now

[tarunjeet singh]

rehat pyaaree mujh koh sikh pyaaray nahee - Guru Gobind singh

[DhadiMania]

here we go again on another rollercoaster ride.

i couldnt care in the world if i am deemed as an rss agent or bjp or congress sarkar, but i 110% agree with this guy the whole nine yards.

ok, kes etc is imporatant, but is it more important to concentrate on the inner self.

maharaj said the same thing to pandits, the inside is more important.

so your telling me, when you die, you can do so much tapasya and paath, and be a moona, and god will say "hang on mate, wheres your kes? you followed everything else but never kept kes, oh well chaurasi for you!"

and compare that to an amritdhari who probably never kept full rehat, maharaj will jump from his desk and say "va gursikha va, you kept kes, oh look you have your kakkars, i bow to you, its sachkhand for you mate"

i remember ages back, like when i had just started secondary school, a kesdhari who never wore turban, just wore what little kids wear, you know the rumaala (not patka, but you know, what little kids of say 4-5 wear). anyway, my point being is this, at the corner of the street, i could not believe he would smoke, and i seriously refused to believe this was the same kesdhari i saw at school until i chatted to other people about him, making sure this was not an illusion of some sort.

ok, now we should not have an appearence if we are to keep to that principals, and im sorry, aaj kal di singhs i have met have never kept true to their banaa.

(gustaphi maaf)

im a moona, and when i look at the teachings of bani, i say man i want to grow my kes, then i turn to todays people, and i get rid of it, reason is simple, i will not fall into a hybrid that aaj kal di singhs are militants.

i personally say what counts is the inside and only have the outside if you can stay true to it, and show pyaar god has on offer. (is this where i am deemed as radhaswami? what will some people do, blow up a building?)

whats sad here is the fact that aaj kal di lions are dressed as sheep, and aaj kal di sheep are dressed as lions.

Your quote above "My girl cousins who are sikh but cut their hair " is untrue, cos one is not a Sikh if they cut their hair - you may find this offensive, but this is not something I have come up with, this is what our Guru Saahiban's have told us

gustaphi maaf, but even if you have paag and kes, doesnt make you a sikh. only once someone has taken amrit can they be sikh, remember

sikh pehla, singh baad

sant siphai works in that way also.

also thats dear coming from you bhenji because when i said the same thing to you on msn and when we met you said something, i cant remember but you certainly did not come out like this, you were positive and said something how we are all sikh but with different spiritual level!

As for being Khalastani, well first someone explain to me what khalistan will be and then maybe I’ll believe in it. Not some utopian society, but lets face it the same people who run the gurudwaras will be running khalistan.

khalistan, hmmm, well i am in a sense for it because it will be a place where people can practice their religion freely. go to punjab, very few kesdharis, because of discrimination.

also, look at the water supplies and electrical supplies, in which 75% goes to other states, making punjab one of the most poorest states.

then again, its up these people who claim they are the proudest fanatics in the world to do mass parchaar of sikhism and influence other people to follow a rehat. also its a shame because the foundations of getting this khalistan is when the parbhandak comitee hand their powers to the panj pyare. despite there are some "absoloute strict" singhs, escpecially in leicester, that has not happened.

then again, we always cant give up things for the sake of humanity can we?

rehat pyaaree mujh koh sikh pyaaray nahee - Guru Gobind singh

ok, so how many have been able to keep full rehat. and just because you have a paag doesnt make you rehatdhari, being rehatdhari does not mean one should keep paag and do 5 banis, it also contains...........

controlling the vices

not to diss a singh

do not talk to a turk

protect the cow

never do ninda

the last two i found out yesterday, i mean the turk and the cow part, i checked it on google.

taksal says not to talk to moonai

http://www.damdamitaksal.com/lit_rehat_18.htm

and also, one should use oil, ash and sand to clean the hands

i ask you here, when you go gurdwara, which person uses this and not soap?

http://allaboutsikhs.com/rehat/rehat_09.htm

Caste

A Singh protects cows and Brahmans. Ensure that your cooking arrangements are kept unpolluted. Do not permit the following to participate in your langar: barbers, Jhivars who shave heads, weavers, potters, and others of low caste. Brahmans and those of good family who do not touch bhang or tobacco can all pre-pare food in a langar. Preaching should convince the four castes of the message concerning warfare. '° [16, 102—4]

http://allaboutsikhs.com/rehat/rehat_16.htm

Pilgrimage

Anandpur, Amritsar, Patna, and Abchalnagar [the four takhats], are truly splendid places. Reverently walk around any place associated with a Guru, make an offering, say Ardas, and inwardly meditate on the supreme Guru. [17, 18]

k, how many have walked to anandpur here then?

http://allaboutsikhs.com/rehat/rehat_16.htm

Smite Turks with immense vigour. A Singh who obeys the Rahit does not bow when he meets a Turk. Never serve Turks, never greet a Turk, never trust Turks. Serve only the Khalsa. Avoid Muslim huttha meat. By fighting them face to face the Muslims will be defeated. Remain ever alert against the Turks. A Turk should be neither accepted as a master nor treated with deference. Keep Muslims away from your cooking-square when preparing for a langar. Muslims are polluted. [16, 20, 21, 30, 45, 46, 62, 94]

http://allaboutsikhs.com/rehat/rehat_17.htm

practically, most of people have broken their rehat if thats the case

heck i bet some people are breaking their rehat as we speak, this whole thread will probably turn into a, whats the word, a dissing match in the end.

also, im intrested in who these people were who write such rehats, and how they were able to write this?

gustaphi maaf

[singh_comradz]

the inside is important but so is the outside.

we can call ourselves sikhs (not a problem) but who's sikhs are we. if we don't follow guru ji's

teachings then we certainly ain't sikhs of the Guru.

we can twist things and criticise all we want but maharaj's HUKAM is set. its not gonna go anywhere, it's there in solid form and it's up to us to follow it. if we decide not to for whatever reason then we do it at our own peril.

we can also say that 'a keshdari smokes' or someone who cuts there hair doesn't.

on that point i got to agree. some cut haired sikhs are into their religion than some

keshdari sikhs and likewise. everyone takes things at their own pace. lecturing people doesn't help BUT encouraging people does. by making people aware of sikhi is the most important thing, then if they want to grow their hair, again they have to make their decision and not be forced into it.

and lastly just because some people might not follow rehit or a keshdhari drinks or smokes. we should not try to compromise sikhi or indeed tarnish it just because

of the actions of a few. its not the examples of others that we (or attempt to) follow but Sat Guru Maharaj..

bhul chuk maaf karni

[GurSa Singh]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

There seems to be a growing trend in the punjabi community of replacing the term "practicing Sikh" or "orthadox Sikh" with "Fanitical Sikhs" or "Extremist Sikh".

Living in a different society doesn't give anyone the right to re-write

Religious Maryada. Its easy to brand people fanatics. It's even easier to justify our lifestyles by tarnishing Guruji's roop as fanatic & Guruji's thinking as backwards.

GurFateh!

[singh_comradz]

true veer ji

how can you define 'fanatic'?????????

just because a person strongly believes in something or shows allegiance

to a religion or something doesn't brand them a 'fanatic'

EXAMPLE: if you wear a fair bit of designer gear i.e. versace, gucci

doesn't that make you a fanatic?

ANSWER: No!

it just shows you got good taste. lol

just because someone is into sikhi, anti justice for 84 or even pro taksal

doesn't necessarily brand them a fanatic. if you think it does then in some sense

WE'RE ALL FANATICS.

BHUL CHUK MAAF KARNI