Hawara Speaks Of Being Tortured

[Raju]

I trust my knowledge that thousands of innocent Sikhs have been brutually tortured and killed by ur Govt of india and i need no proof to prove this to u.....u r irrelevant to me

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I am also willing to believe you provided you give me the right kind of arguments, else I would not be spending my time on this forum. But you seem to be on the track that it is safer to attack the individual rather than attack the argument.

In the resulting climate, I might have to conclude that you seem to be irrelevant to me as well. Safe in that knowledge let us proceed to ignore each other from hereon.

Added ltr: Forums such as this give us the opportunity of viewing both sides of the coin. If the requirement is just that everyone should erupt in collective hurray's then why do you need a forum for debate ??

[Sony]

Raju Veerji,

What are you looking for clarification on? is it that one picture? or in general?

Are u looking for clarification or proof of Sikhs that were tortured?

If you could clarify this then maybe we can have a better conversation or debate on this topic.

Thanks

[Raju]

I know that a lot of sikhs were tortured by punjab police. I just want to know how credible is the torture claim on that particular pic because the individual could also have been killed by a bullet wound and the post-mortem conducted have left the resultant scar on the body which is indicative of the opening the sternum for biopsy. Also if that is a recent incident or something from 2 decades back.

If indeed the person has been killed due to police torture then I bow my head in respect before a shaheed.

[Sony]

veerji, i wouldnt know about that particular picture

but here is a website that you can look at:

http://www.panthkhalsa.org/raj/raj_khalsa.php

where the names of the victims and the method of torture that they recieved are written there. I dont see why such a debate has to be made over one picture..... but if it must then .... well.. there are hundreds of other pictures that can be looked at

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

[nanosecond]

I know that a lot of sikhs were tortured by punjab police. I just want to know how credible is the torture claim on that particular pic because the individual could also have been killed by a bullet wound and the post-mortem conducted have left the resultant scar on the body which is indicative of the opening the sternum for biopsy. Also if that is a recent incident or something from 2 decades back.

If indeed the person has been killed due to police torture then I bow my head in respect before a shaheed.

That u can only know if u email the author of the story

Even if this person hasnt been 'tortured and killed by indian police, there are countless number of such shaheeds and i am able to see such shaheeds in this pic

And if u need proof on sikh genocide, u can get unbiased info from amnesty and humanrightswatch and loads of panthic sites like saintsoldiers.net

[Balwinder Singh]

Does anybdy has some proof that alcohol and tabacco wasstuffed into hwara ji mouth?

As far as I heard, indian gov didn't allow him to wear patka while questioning was goin on. There was no mention of alcohol and tabacco.

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

"As far as I heard, indian gov didn't allow him to wear patka while questioning was goin on. There was no mention of alcohol and tabacco. "

Uh that's because the GOI is not going to say yeah we stuffed tobacco in his mouth to hurt his religious sentiments.

The Punjab Times and Amritsar times have both said that Bhai Jagtar Singh has told his lawyers that he had Paan stuffed in his mouth and he was forced to spit on the pictures of the sikh gurus. His lawyer is going to file a case with human rights group.

[Balwinder Singh]

This is really bad. Well somehow its hard to beleive....that GOI will go that far in these days when media is so strong and there is no media blackout.

Anyways...thanks for the sources.

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

Raju Ji, if you have any doubt about the tortures inflicted on Sikhs during police custody, please do visit this site for some graphic examples. The picture in the article is very clean and non-graphic.

http://www.panthkhalsa.org/raj/raj_khalsa.php

Warning, the pictures are disturbing.

[Raju]

Although I ain't the biggest fan of GoI around; fact is that my father has worked for GoI as a bureaucrat and from my experience I can tell you that torture is not something that is condoned.

Of all the Indian state police forces, I believe that it is possibly only the punjab police that takes the most liberal view of torture...could be a case of 'old habits die hard'. Then comes kashmir where the intelligence agencies might use torture because they have been given a free hand much like how punjab police was given a free hand during the 80s.

I want to confirm torture pics, preferably with solid evidence, before I believe in them because I have a need to know if they are recent and if punjab police is still taking the liberties they are in the 80s because AFAIK the liberties that punjab police enjoyed in the 80s are no longer available to them and they have to behave normally. This can also be proved when Capt Amarinder Singh pre-empted punjab police from going overboard with the 'human bomb angle' that arose after the cinema blast threats and he had then remarked that

"The Police must not run around finding 'human bombs' from every village"

which clearly was proof that the 'human bomb' connection should not be used as a blanket to wrap up all cases of petty rivalry and frame innocent people with imaginary charges either for settling family rivalry or for gaining 'out of turn' promotions.

And as far as Jagtar Singh Hawara's testimony to the press goes that tobacco was stuffed into his mouth then indeed if tobacco was stuffed into his mouth then why would the police allow him access to his lawyers ?? If it is proved that indeed he was tortured then criminal cases can be proceeded against the officials concerned. GoI does not condone torture and that is not its mindset, but probably it is wary of antagonising punjab police because it wants the punjab police on its side rather than on the side of the extremists.