People Please See This!

[Ambrosia]

sorry - double posted

[Ambrosia]

Tav-Prasad Savaiye by Guru Gobind Singh Ji (taken from sikhs.org)

Scrupulous Jains and hosts of Siddhs, ascetic yogis - I have seen them all.

Warriors and demons, gods who drink amrit, devout believers in a multitude of doctrines.

All these have I witnessed as I traveled the world, yet never a true follower of the Lord.

Without the love and grace of God their devotion is trivial, worthless, lost. (1)

Mighty elephants in gorgeous array, magnificently decked with gold;

Thousands of horses nimbler than deer, their speed even swifter than the wind;

Though their masters be powerful emperors, potentates before whom countless bow.

In the end such greatness crumbles to nothing as barefoot they go on their way. (2)

They march victorious across the world, beating their drums in triumph.

Their splendid elephants vibrantly trumpeting, their legion of thoroughbreds proudly neighing.

Kings of the past, of the present, the future, their numbers beyond comprehending,

Neglectful of worship, unmindful of God, they go to their ultimate home. (3)

Pious bathing and acts of charity, disciplined lives and endless rites;

Searching the scriptures, Hindu and Muslim; scanning the earth and the heavens above;

Men who abstain from all food or from sex - ascetics unnumbered I have seen and I know.

That though they be kings all their deeds are in vain if their lives have no place for the praises of God. (4)

Seasoned troops in coats of mail, fearsome warriors with the strength to kill;

Fiercely proud they stand their ground, steadfast in courage though mountains take flight;

Assailing their enemies, crushing their foes, humbling the pride of their elephant hosts;

They too must finally rise and depart, deprived of the grace of the Lord. (5)

Boundless in courage and matchless in strength, men who unflinching will parry a sword;

Despoiling a country, slaying its people, its elephant armies brought down to the dust;

Forts destroyed by the might of their arms, the world subdued by the fear of their threats;

Yet all are humbled by the Creator's power, beggars all in the presence of the Lord. (6 )

Deities and demons, the divine, the uncouth, repeating God's Name in the future as the past.

All the creatures of the earth and sea resigned to his will in instant obedience;

Praise for their virtue resounds afar, their evil deeds erased.

The devout go forth with joy in the world as their enemies cry in helpless rage. (7)

Masters of men, commanders of elephants, powerful rulers who bestride the world;

Endlessly bathing, prodigious in charity, sitting bedecked as their marriages are made.

All is futile, for even the gods, however exalted, must end in death.

Only the humble who touch God's feet shall finally sunder the cycle of rebirth. (8)

What benefit comes from endless meditation, from sitting like cranes with both eyes closed?

One may piously bathe in all seven oceans and yet lose everything here and hereafter.

Some spend their lives deep in the jungle, wasting their years in useless endeavor.

Let all pay heed for I speak the truth: only they who love God can find him. (9)

Some worship stones, borne on their heads; some hang lingams from their necks.

Some claim that God dwells in the south, whilst other bow to the West.

Some worship idols, foolishly ignorant; others put trust in the tombs of the dead.

All are astray, seduced by false ritual; none knows the secret of God. (10)

[naam_jap]

[Bijla Singh]

See no difference between your enemy, your friends, your support, your slanderers, and God. Recognize that All is God... there is no exception. If you can love even your enemies, then indeed you are a true sant soldier.

Reading your words gursikhs like Guru Gobind Singh Ji, Baba Deep Singh Ji, Nawab Kapoor Singh Ji, Hari Singh Nalwa, Bhai Fauja Singh Ji, Sant Jarnail Singh Ji and many others come to my mind. Thanks for reminding me of them.

SSM: the guilty are going to die, they are not going to live forever. When they die they will be judged.

**So we should get rid of the judicial system and abolish all the courts. Let's release all the criminals and love them which will ensure them that nothing will stop them while carrying criminal activities.** and no one should've stopped Hitler. right? Loving someone based on humanity is different than loving someone for his/her actions.

Arent you happy enough? or you want more blood, because they killed us back?

Criminals and guilty ones must be punished. It is not about happiness but about justice. remember how Guru Ji punished masands or should I remind you?

IF you love someone, will they kill you ?

Guru Ji loved the whole humanity yet hill kings and pathans attacked Him. So yeah people do betray. this world is very complex.

Without the love and grace of God their devotion is trivial, worthless, lost. (1)

Sikhs take Sword in their hand and fight injustice and oppression while their minds are attached to the feet of Waheguru. So the above will only apply to Sikhs if they forget the name of Waheguru.

Only the humble who touch God's feet shall finally sunder the cycle of rebirth. (8)

Guru Ji and His Sikhs are strong warriors and very humble at the same time. They fight with Hosh not with anger.

Please understand the concept of Miri and Piri. It is not too hard. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[buddasingh]

woa... slow down here. Naam jap, ssm & ambroisa amongst others I hope you are not operating on the assumption that sikhs had anything at all to do with AI.

The initial post references a clip and then asks if it (actions suggested in the clip as fact) are right or wrong. The most important point in this post is to denounce the story as garbage. You can denounce terrorism all you want. BUT PLEASE REALIZE THE INSULT TO SIKHI HERE AND DON'T WILLINGLY ACCEPT IT.

How do we stick up for ourselves when people lie and say sikhs are terrorists and we as sikhs start to debate things based on this premise. We should be able to say that you cannot wrongly slander a single member of our panth without our objection. I am not a fan of the men accused, nor do I know them. However, we must wake up and smell the b.s.

If there was a conspiracy the size of a planet with the strength of an eggshell the AI trial is it. There is still one man sitting in jail. Start asking some questions and the circumstances under which he is being detained should put us all to shame. His name is of course Inderjit S. Reyat. He is the one who plead guilty. Does anyone have a copy of greenspan newspaper article on his circumstances the the 5 year guilty plea? Start investigating that article, see if you can get some sensible answers. In Canada there have been numerous proven instances of lies leading to innocent people accused of horrendous crimes. Reyat is another one that cries out to be investigated.

[naam_jap]

**So we should get rid of the judicial system and abolish all the courts. Let's release all the criminals and love them which will ensure them that nothing will stop them while carrying criminal activities.** and no one should've stopped Hitler. right? Loving someone based on humanity is different than loving someone for his/her actions.

Why are you presuming ? Also, I never said I love criminals for their actions. Again you are presuming.

We are still sikh brothers. If there is some oppression, I will fight it with you together. I understand the concept of miri-piri. But please understand I dont support Khalistan. They are **TWO** different things, If you look closely. The corruption is not going to end if we get a khalistan. In the end all that is going to matter is how much love you have for everyone.

It is very disgracing to the sikh community, due to the activities of few sikhs, we are termed extremists/terrorists. Im not saying its only the few sikhs, ofcourse the GOI is involved too.

Guru ji kirpa karay

[Bijla Singh]

I understand the concept of miri-piri. But please understand I dont support Khalistan.

If you understand Miri Piri then understand that there CANNOT be two governments working in one country. Punjab belongs to Sikhs therefore only Sikhs must rule it.

The corruption is not going to end if we get a khalistan. In the end all that is going to matter is how much love you have for everyone.

Purpose of Khalistan is not to end corruption though the government will work on it but tell me which country was established just to end corruption? there are more than 200 different countries in the world does it mean they all hate each other? If no then how would Khalistan stop you or anyone else from loving humanity?

It is sad and unfortunate that today's Sikhs rather live like beggars at the doors of others rather than have self-rule and live free way of life. Just to avoid the label of "terrorists" we will not stop fighting injustice and oppression. Guru Rakha.

[naam_jap]

If you understand Miri Piri then understand that there CANNOT be two governments working in one country. Punjab belongs to Sikhs therefore only Sikhs must rule it.

It worked during the time of Guru Nanak Dev ji. Let me remind India is a country of diverse religions. The primer minister is a SIKH, they didnt say NO, they gave respect to him. Sikhs listen to the Akal Takht. You talk about khalistan rule? what type of rule, a rule in whcih a simple issue of women's seva cannot be solved?

Purpose of Khalistan is not to end corruption though the government will work on it but tell me which country was established just to end corruption? there are more than 200 different countries in the world does it mean they all hate each other? If no then how would Khalistan stop you or anyone else from loving humanity?

OK, if the purpose is not end corruption in SIKH community, THEN WHY DO U EVEN WANT KHALISTAN?

[Prem]

Bijla Singh

I think I asked you this question on another thread and I dont think I got a response.

What exact and precise actions are going to have to be taken in terms of the use of violence to bring about Khalistan in your opinion?

Note, I am not against the concept of Khalistan, nor the idea of working towards it peacefully - and I am pro active in activism for human rights in Punjab through membership of Amnesty International and wherever I can, supporting the efforts of human rights organisations like Ensaaf in holding the guilty to account in India for the crimes against humanity commited against Sikhs.

But I will never and can never support the use of indiscriminate violence against innocent people in the name of Khalistan.

Now you can call me names for this - thats fine - they are meaningless and wrong. But until you can persuade me that you mean otherwise I presume that you endorse the use of violence against innocent people to facilitate a climate of terror conducive to the chaos you would need to constitute your plan - and that is downright evil and wrong.

Now, maybe I am mistaken and you would not support such actions. Then I apologise, and ask again for you to clarify exactly what you envisage are the forceful means that you expect to see being used to bring about your dream - does it involve the use of bombs, shootings?

Who, and what, are the targets?

Specifics please, not just generalities. Who would the violence be targetted against?

Also, would you welcome an exodus of Hindus from Punjab and the reciprocal influx of Sikhs from across India in return? Is that part of the strategy you envisage as a way of bringing about Khalistan? If so, do you not care for the misery and horror and violence and displacement this would bring about, effectively another partition?

Thanks for considering my questions, I look forward to reading your clear answers.

Guru Fateh

[Prem]

This is important news and a step in the right direction, I feel.

Separatist Sikh group wants to shun violence

Chandigarh: Dal Khalsa, a Sikh group that spearheaded a movement for a separate Sikh homeland for 25 years, announced yesterday that it wanted to shed its hardline image to involve more people.

Dal Khalsa would strive to change its image and work for social causes like female foeticide, drug abuse and education in rural Punjab, its newly elected president Satnam Singh said.

He invited people, also from other faiths including Hinduism, to join the movement.

In yesterday's election held here, Satnam Singh, the man who hijacked an Indian Airlines flight to Pakistan in 1981, replaced another hijacker — Gajinder Singh — who had been hiding in Pakistan for several years.

Though the radical organisation would not give up its call for a separate "Khalistan", Satnam Singh said the goal should be achieved through peaceful and democratic means and not by armed movement of the kind it led in Punjab during the 1980s and 1990s.