A Little Debate

[DhadiMania]

i was at school aaj and met a singh, we were there chatting and then we see a brahmin teacher (personally i respect the guy because when he used to teach me he was a very very funny person and also very kind)

anyhoo, the singh asked me to ask him "what do you think of indira gandhi" and of course he didnt want to comment, from this i sensed he respected her (i saw nothing wrong in that)

the singh however started by sayin "how can you like a person who tried to kill of sikhs" and of course this lit the debate of indira gandhi

the teacher asked "why were weapons found" in which the singh replied with "they were planted by the indian government" (i believed that to a point, why would singhs have bombs, maybe ak-47's, but why bombs?)

the teacher went on saying it was not an attack on sikhs, why else did she employ two singhs as her bodyguards, in which the singh replied "she wanted to show to the world..she wanted to show off"

the teacher went on by saying "well because of them they caused the delhi riots"

the debate went off into a tangeant to some extent, because the singh (saddha inderpal ss wale) talked about how she shot SGGS "the eternal throne". here the teacher backed off. but coming from it, i was thinking, indira never shot sggs, and i thought she tried not to shoot sggs instead some soldier did (so by right isnt this KS Brah di galti as the soldier was under his command)?

just want opinions and answers from what the teacher said...and what does sangat make of inderpals debating skills? good or what?

note: inderpal requested me to mention his name

gustaphi maaf

[rKr]

im sorry i accidentaly posted as rkr

[Mehtab Singh]

The Indian media has done a wonderful to make Indian people, both Sikhs and non-Sikhs believe that operation bluestar was right. To know the truth, read the following account by Ram Narayan Kumar (a south Indian Tamil Brahmin), an eminent social activist and journalist who (I heard this) is banned from entering India because he exposed the truth behind operation bluestar.

Anyways, here is the page: http://www.sikhreview.org/june2000/chronicle.htm

[gupt_paapi]

The Indian media has done a wonderful to make Indian people, both Sikhs and non-Sikhs believe that operation bluestar was right. To know the truth, read the following account by Ram Narayan Kumar (a south Indian Tamil Brahmin), an eminent social activist and journalist who (I heard this) is banned from entering India because he exposed the truth behind operation bluestar.

Anyways, here is the page: http://www.sikhreview.org/june2000/chronicle.htm

131071[/snapback]

pure democracy :lol: freedom of speech eh

[DhadiMania]

i bet inderpal will be the first to show that to the teacher lol.

[SSM]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh

well one thing that is obvious is if u gonna attack then the date was a little strange to choose hunna? most sikhs expected to come celebrate and its India so u cant say govt didnt know there gonna be celebrations taking place, thats like the biggest joke on the planet.

well how did they cause the sikh riots if all they were doing were getting revenge for being attacked. Would he say the same if a Jew killed Hitler and Hitler's mates went and killed thousands of random Jews. OK Germany situation was much worse but killing Indira not just abt revenge but also to kill a woman who was not gonna stop.

well if u gonna let them attack Gurdwara with tanks and all then I don't think its hard to accept the fact that u gonna show loads of disrespect to Guru Ji.

Just cos Brar gave the orders it dont change what that aurat did. Its like A wants to kill D and goes to hitman B who tells his employee hitman C to kill D, so does it make a difference whether there was a B involved, A knew what was involved.

Think I complicated things lol.

Yep Inderpal good debater, well done

[Harmeet Singh]

While Discussing Op Bluestar one must remain mindful about the role of SGPC and Tohra in Op Bluestar. Both SGPC and Tohra are under legal jurisdictions of Indian Government. SGPC and its presidents and all the workers have to remain under the boundaries given by GOI. The funds of SGPC remain under the scrutiny of GOI including its elections. One wonders why GOI never allowed elections for the 25 years when Tohra remianed President.

1st Part

President rule was declared on Punjab on OCt 7, 1983. According to this all the powers of state get transffered to center and that includes SGPC and that of Mr Tohra too. Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale was not in the Akal Takht at this time.

2nd Part (After the President's rule)

Tohra told Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale that lets do ardas at the akaal takht and protest from there to get Ananadpur sahib resolution passed. Sant Bhindrawale and Tohra agreed as it was good idea. Tohra allowed the Morcha to protest from Akal takht in december,1983 with a prayer.

Now how did Sant Bhindrawale entered Akal Takht without the permission of Indian Government. when SGPC was under GOI? He obviously didn't take it over.

3rd Part

Tohra knew army would come in as Sant Bhindrawale won't deter from the Prayer he would make at the Akal takht. The army would come and show that Sant Bhindrawale has "taken over" Akal Takht.

So President rule was laid on punjab full six months before the GOI unleashed terror at the Darbar Sahib.

Weapons at Darbar Sahib:

Punjab Police IG Mr Bhinder caught Army trucks and SGPC car sewa trucks smuggling arms into the Darbar Sahib.

WOW that too under President's rule? Well they were aloowed to go on the orders from above.

Hey Bush also said there are weapons of Mass destruction in Iraq?

No person worth a pich of truth in him can believe what GOI says it found at the Darbar Sahib as it was done under compelte information black out. why was blackout done? That even raises more question os type of lies and fabricated stories circulated after the aftermath of operation.

Questions:

1 Why did GOI allow a person whom it called a "terrorist" to enter a place which under close scrutiny of GOI and that too during the President's rule?

2. If SGPC President is sovereign than his decision to allow Sant Bhindrawale into Akal Takht can't be challenged.

3. If Sant Bhindrawale was a terrorist was why person who allowed him to do prayer akal takht not arrested..Tohra?

[Hot Sausage]

Admin Edit: First Warning Given !

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

if the singhs really had all those weapons at darbar sahib, no indian soldier would have made it out alive...the right army would have won. The indian gov't had to say that they found all those weapons because otherwise the world would have laughed at how the indian army couldn't defeat a couple hundred singhs and singhnees for a week.

also, it is amazing how no cameras were allowed. no press, what were they hiding? i mean if your army is saving the sanctity of a religious temple from "terrorists" then why not have cameras and press to show off to the indian public and the world?...because they knew they were going to kill off as many sikhs as possible, terrorost or non-terrorist...sick man, really sick, i don't know how the likes of brar sleep at night, i really don't....

why was press allowed when muslim extremists attacked a hindu temple and were caught in a shootout with indian paramilitary forces, why no media blackout then?

PS and that link that mehtab singh posted is very correct when it says that sikhs have very long memories, oh boy do we...

[palamrinder]

Of what i heard is tht russian intelligence KGB provided GOI with information that the bridge on beas, which was the only connecting route to the western punjab, was to be blown off and independce declared for khalistan on gurpurab... indian forces have been training days (months prolly) before the actual operation bluestar... so no i dont think it was not preplanned.... also it explains why not just goldent temple but other gurdwaras were also attcked throughout the state......

As for tohra and badal, they were the first ones to be evacuated from the complex premesis before the opertaion, even when there were scores of devotees in.

For the indian forces, they were staunchly anti-sikh. I was in amritsar and remember sneaking out to a gali to see CRPF jawans, only to be chased by them with guns pointed at me (3 yr old child)..... i didnt knew wat was happening then but now i understand wat it was......

Having said that.... i think things have changed a bit now..... its not GOI who is harming panth more than the so called akalis and out own corrupt leaders, not to mention ever increasing no. of misguided youth..... They were cutting the branches of the panth back in 80s, now they have reached to the roots.............. All we need is strong media presence to make our voice heard around......

But then again i feel that everything is happening by Guruji's hukum.... we cant comprehend why it happened but only time will tell.......

Fateh