I hate this guy:

[>Bikramjit Singh<]

Singh132

I think it's all about novelty. Our people will always chase after novelty. It's novel to have someone like Osho write a book on Sikhi and whether it is any good or not the Sikhs around the world will buy the book for the sheer novelty. I have seen the books of Osho in the Gurdwara libraries for which Premkranti is proud of, I doubt many get read. As for Premkranti's contention that calling the Gurus after Guru Nanak weren't Gurus just to jolt fanatic people, well that's bukwas and he knows it. It's funny how some Sikhs are so tied down and follow slavishly the teachings of such hypocrites as Osho that they cannot understand when he has insulted the Gurus. These sorts of people try and rationalise everything bringing up excuses such as the context and the need to 'talk' to the person and see what his intentions were. As Osho is as dead as a dodo at the moment i'm not sure how Pheena Veer will be doing the talking with him.

If you read the materials on cults on the net you'll see that Osho's cult is pretty much the architypal cult. His life story would pretty much be similar to the plot of the film 'The Guru' where some Indian guy goes from India to USA and talking a load of bukwas manages to impress some stupid americans into thinking he is a great religious teacher. Osho types are ten to a penny in India, the only difference is that Osho managed to get to the US at a time when the hippy types in the country were ripe to be ripped off of both their intellect as well as their money.

[simmal tree]

this man had a lot of spiritual and social wisdom, but not enlightenment. he was wise because he was a philosopher and a meditator. he had mental wisdom, and maybe some ridhia sidhia (occult powers). he also probably had a respectable understanding of various languages and various religious customs.

but he didn't have gurmat giaan, naam, sehaj, santokh, or nimarta. in the end this all caused him to be exposed as a complete fraud. he did not practice what he preached, he was not honest in his actions, he did ninda of satguru ji which is automatically fatal, and instead of gathering the masses to pray to the Creator God, he gathered the masses so that they could idolize him. in reality he was not a god (bhagwan), he was not great (shri), he did not have the depth of the ocean (osho), he was not a master of royalty (rajneesh). he was just a fraud.

some of his books are well-written and especially his viakhia on japji sahib and on "ikoankar" is interesting, but it doesn't compare to katha by sant kartar singh ji or sant jarnail singh ji. it doesn't compare to books by bhai sahib randhir singh ji.

and contrary to what "premkranti" said, it is not sikh consciousness that will fall, but the fraud that is osho which will be forgotten by the masses.

raaj karaegaa khaalsaa aakee rahae na koae

khoaar hoay sabh milaingay bachae sharan jo hoae

SAAAAT SRIIIIIII AAKKKKAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLL !!!!!!!!!!

vaaheguroojeekaakhaalsaa

vaaheguroojeekeefathehhhhhhhh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[premkranti]

Singh132: Osho burnt the book 'Rajneeshism' which was compiled by Sheela in his silence.He said he does not want anybody to create 'ism' or any religion under his name.He did not burn any other book.According to Ohso,organized religions have done only harm to humanity and created bloodshed.He wanted just meditation in the world and every body a authentic person without belonging to any religion.He said everybody has to find his/her own enlightenment.less than that will not work.He burnt a religion when he burnt 'Rajneeshism'.No enlightened person could do such a courageous act before.Osho never condemned anybody but according to Osho,Guru is one and always one.There can not be Guru A,Guru B,Guru C tc.Guru is a Guru is a Guru so Guru.It can be any “body”.Guru is Parmatama in human body.When we created a series to Gurus to strengthen a organized religion,we are making chains around ourselves. Organization becomes our prison.Osho never cared and did the courage to speak against all chains.So he never condemned Dashmesh Pita.In fact there are lot of people who saw Dashmesh Pita in the eyes of Osho.But only humble/non-fanatic and meditative people with deep experience of life could feel that.When Gobind Singh went to Madho Dass,he did not care what geography/caste or religion he belongs to.In fact he gave Madho Dass more arrows than even His close disciples. Dont condemn somebody if he does not belong to your geography or caste.Be open minded and when you will be fully open,God will descend upon you.Nindaks live a poisnous life.Ninda of Osho will burn you.

Dont see internet/newspapers or American or other govenrment and orthodox people's propoganda.Be yourself and experience yourself.Dont be too quick to condemn Osho.Drink Him and you will be blessed.You will be a better Sikh and a possible enlightenement.Dont practice any religion/belief because nothing will satisfy you until enlightenment.Mediatate and experince depth of life.You will meet Nanak,GobindSingh there.

Sher_Panjab: Osho's body died from slow poison given to him in American jails by fundamentalist christians of Ronald Reegan's group.Osho fought with all the governments of the world.He was deported from almost all countries and sent to various jails all over the world.In my view,never such a rebellious and

courageous perosn ever happened in humanity.It needs utmost courage to fight the world establishmnets WITHOUT A SWORD AND with just logic.I salute Osho thousand times and still it is far less ..what can i do.All AIDS propganda is orthodox fundamentalists' propoganda so that common people can not listen to Osho and should remain in the clutches of priests and politicians.Dont be a victim of this propoganda.Come out of it.There is nothing wrong in sex.Respect it.Never repress sex.Repressed sex becomes ugly and becomes dangerous and created ugly psychological expression to come out.Never fight with sex.It is important problem of humanity and Osho spoke about it boldly.

Bikramjit Singh:As long as somebdody can be insulted,He is not a Guru.Guru is beyond appreciation or Condemnations.Also as long as we can be insulted,jolted,praised,it means we are egoistic.The real message of all awakened ones is DIE.Die while alive.then no praise or condemnation can touch you.Ego never wants to accept that somebody is enlightened except me or My religious idols.Come on!..come out of this little world.See the reality and be open for new.How long can you go on ignoring the Sun.Do you think God writes on net about Osho.These are the people who are as much disturbed as you.Almost everybody is disturbed by Osho.Osho has not started any cult.It is insult to Osho.It is egoistic attitute to call something cult and yours as religion.In fact all religions started with few persons and then became organized.Where is the boundary line.You refer to some movies. I think you dont have your own vision or experience.You are refering to this or that and specially third class resources(net,movies..).It is below my dignity to discuss with you further if you are not expressing your own authentic views but just borrowed view.America was lucky and blessed to have a short time presence of Osho in this desert land.

This is a rare happening.It takes time to settle the dust and see transparently the reality. Koor Nikhate Nanka.Orak Sach Rahi.

Simmal Tree:presently Osho name is just covered by propaganda of politicians and your so called priests/orthodox people who want you to be just a believer and remain belonging to their fold.With the time, clouds of dust will settle down and full moon will be visible clearly.Nanank,Budha,Gobind Singh,Socrates were all condemned or crucufied not only by the administration of their time but even they

were not very respectable in common masses of their time.They never cared.With time reality comes up and managed propaganda dies.Dont like any katha which looks good/sweet to your mind but you should like only that which wakes you up,jolts you and disturbs you.When you are jolted/disturbed only then you move and progress.Otheriwise all good kathas are lolly-pop and opium and keep you sleeping.Invite all the people who can insult you,jolt you and only then you will be doing justice with your life.Avoid opium! Invite new skies.Get beyond the boundaries of religions and be global and son of earth.When you will get purified from all these identifications/attachments and egos,then you will know what it means to be Khalsa.

A Khalsa is neither a Hindu,nor Muslim,nor Christian nor a Sikh,nor a Indian nor a American.

With love and seeking forgetness and forgiveness

PremKranti Singh Khalsa

[Jai Tegang!]

premkranti: dress it up, dress it down....there's no way of defending your beloved osho....we are Sikhs of our Guru, and osho doesn't figure anywhere in this equation.

he could have had a respectable place, but that all evaporated the minute he slandered our Guru.

so my advice to you premkranti is stop wasting your time writing these long winded replys...you dug yourself a deeper hole in your very first reply....Sikhi won't disintegrate because we don't have the mighty osho to do us tranlations....lol

bikramjit singh: spot on veera!

pheena: dude, open your eyes...some things aren't as complicated as you make them out. There's no way you can put a positive spin on what osho said.

[jss]

to Premkranti...if doing sangat of osho gives you peace and solace and spiritual upliftment...than i am nothing but happy for you... may you keep experiencing spiritual growth in your chosen path...

to all the singhs...

i don't know much about osho...nor do i really care to know...trying to just follow Guru ji takes enough of my time to try to figure out the ins and outs of some other person...

i do know this...us HATING anyone...isn't going to help our spiritual growth...

we should just concentrate on doing simran, seva, sangat...if osho didn't think our gurus were gurus...then so be it...it's not an insult...i'm not insulted..i feel bad for the guy...cuz he could have probably gained immensely had he been blessed to recognize the True gurus...but he didn't and that's his path... let him have his opinion...

him believing in guru ji or not doesn't affect us in anyway...and if we are to take his trivial comments and internalize them and start hating others..then it's really only our spiritual detriment...so if you don't agree with osho..ignore him and his chelay...you do what Guru ji has told you to do...and i guarantee that if we even start becoming one tenth of the sikhs that guru ji wants us to become...the world will be inspired by gursikhi...and forget about the likes of osho and others...

when i listen to a tape of a gurmukh who used to do katha...i always remember hearing his words..."others can do what they please....but we are sikhs of guru sahib..and we have hukam from guru sahib on how to live our lives..we need to listen to guru sahib"....

[Jai Tegang!]

jss: at the same time (btw, i resonate with your no-hate message) we need to make other sikhs aware of information like this.

i've seen osho eulogised in Punjabi papers so often, and his books being advertised as if he was a Panthic gem or something...clearly we have to discriminate between truth and falsehood.

osho might have been a spiritual fellow, but in no way can we describe him intune with gurmat. clearly all sikhs should be made aware of his position regarding our Ten Gurus. if we choose to ignore that part of his character, we are fooling ourselves for the "novelty" purpose that Bikramjit SIngh alluded to earlier.

let sikhs know what EXACTLY osho's position on the Gurus was. Not selective passages about him praising Guru Granth sahib ji. after that a sikh can decide if he wishes to read oshos tranlations of Gurbani or his other works.

i repeat, there is clear difference between highlighting a crucial truth about someone's character and hating.

[jss]

jai tegang veerji...

let me ask you something...

what has this thread done?

has it made anyone more aware of osho?? all you guys have succeeded to do is give osho's chelay a forum to spread their message...and they seem to have a come back for every accusation you guys make...i personally haven't seen anything positive come from this thread...

i think the best way to make peole aware of osho's stance...is to just say..here are his books...if anyone cares enough..go read them...

i personally don't care at all...hence i'd never go read them...

anothe thing...i've heard osho's name ever since i was young...but everytime i heard about him...it was "oh..he's some spiritual guy who did his own thing"...never heard him being made out to be a great gurmukh...that's why i've never had any problems with him or his followers...because ot me..they're just following their own path...and if it hels them that's great...me complaining about their path isn't going to make me progress on the my path laid out by guru ji...

while i applaud the intentions..i whole heartedly disagree with the way it is going about...people think oh we need to expose such and such....no!

we don't need to expose anyone...we just have to start practicing gursikhi ourselves and PREACH GURSIKHI... and no matter what anyone else is preaching....when see gursikhi being lived by those preaching it..they will be inspired!!...

[Jai Tegang!]

have to disagree with you jss bro,

i thought osho was a very spiritual guy who loved sikhi ( and this is the propaganda his followers spread via Punjabi newspapers)

but reading oshos views on Guruji (and his views on free sex) i have changed my opinion of him...

i for one think this kind of information is very important for Sikhs to have. clearly there are sikhs who read his Gurbani translations and books not knowing some of his beliefs.

if by this thread some of us have come to know some of these startling details on osho, i think it's very worthwhile.

and the "come backs" made by premkranti were very pitifull...i don't think even he can put a positive spin (as he tried very hard to do) on what osho said about him being the "eleventhGuru"

i have to wholeheartedly disagree with you that such people don't need to be exposed...truth can stand on its own.

alot of youths visit these forums and this ois the right place to tell them about such potential harmful elements.

imagine a sikh who got inspired by his Gurbani translations, and then also started believing in his principle of free sex, all the while believing osho to be some divine soul.

i don't mean any offence to osho's followers, all are on their choice journeys, but as this being a sikh forum, i think it's our moral duty to talk about such issues that have a direct impact on us. i have seen so many sikhs sing praises of osho (mostly due to the novelty of having a non-sikh interested in sikhi) and some even on the fringes of being "oshos-followers", i think they atleast deserve to know what osho thinks about Guruji. After they know, it's up to them to either continue in their lifestyle or change, that's not in our hands.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Usho was not a good man. Yes he did make some good bold statements but his way is very very wrong. Ashutosh is following his steps when he does krishan leela and maps the women according to usho's standards. These guys do more damage than good. So those who think he was an enlightened man, need to get their heds corrected.

Raaj Karega Khalsa Aaki Rhai Naa Koe.

This world doesn't need Usho. This world needs Gurmat Gian.

[>Bikramjit Singh<]

Still think your our 11th Guru??

Found this on another site

"Rajneesh/Osho is the worst thing that ever happened to spirituality in the west. He rode herd over a mob of naive, idealistic spiritual seekers, but definitely lacked the traits of an enlightened master.

"Enlightened masters are not drug addicts. They do not turn Dharma on its head -- like calling "sannyasins" those who adopt a path exactly opposite of Indian sannyas. They generally don't get arrested and have their mug shots taken, and ignomiously deported -- especially the Indian saints. (Christ was one notable historical exception to this rule.) A true saint, by his spiritual power, is never humiliated or bested. He has sufficient merit to receive protection and his honored in his lifetime.

"More to the core, an enlightened master does not encourage his disciples to abandon time-honored moral norms -- especially the dharma concerning sex restraint. Osho was basically a kind of pimp who used the base desires of average people, along with their beautiful hunger for real spirituality, to build a financial empire and a following of worshippers who would do whatever he asked.

"When I think back about that 'baby boomer generation' of sincere spiritual seekers -- all those intelligent, skilled young men and women of European descent like me -- it makes me so sad. What a harvest of potential saints that was! How much good might have arisen if all those young, idealistic westerners could have fallen in with a legitimate spiritual master -- say, a Vivekananda or a Ramakrishna. We will never know! I look at them today, and their condition, and they have missed the boat.

"Thousands of sincere western seekers were misled and harmed by the novel teachings of Osho. I have seen many of them in the aftermath. They always lack the satvic glow that comes from yogic sex restraint; they look like spent rakes aged well beyond their actual years. Even in their age -- when they might show some spiritual attainment -- many still crave sex, and all the ordinary base things. Despite Osho's "indulgence technique," they never got over sex addiction and lust.

"This was one of the Big Lies that Osho told: That by indulging your sex desire you would transcend it. The great sages of Yoga spoke the real and opposite truth: You get over sexual lust not by feeding it, but by restraining it until you encounter the higher thrill of meditative bliss. Meanwhile, it is only that renunciation -- the storing of the sexual energy -- that enables one to contact the transcendental bliss. This has been the message of the sages through all time, including Lord Buddha, who was frequently ripped off by "the Bhagwan." Osho's teachings, though sprinkled here and there with mystical truths, were dead wrong in the most basic ways, and ultimately spiritually destructive.

"The proof is in the pudding. Christ said that one can know a true Master by the "fruit" that emerges from him. Through his disciples Osho gave us moral and family breakdown, drug addiction, a disturbed childhood for many, and crime -- even terrorism. Osho set Yoga back in the west perhaps hundreds of years.

"The saddest thing is what happened to all those children of Osho followers. Osho wanted them to grow up not knowing who their Fathers were; raised by a mob, with no particular person as Parent. I can't think of anything much more ignorant, or more cruel. Krishnamurti was right:

Osho was a criminal."

-- Julian Lee