52 Hukams

[Niranjana]

u guys dont get it.. this analogy is used in bani as well that recognize this or that as poison.

It doesnt mean its bad it means that you should not go near it, shouldnt take it, for you, the father, it is poison, do not steal your daughters belongings etc..

You have to read it a few times to get it. took me awhile.

Gur Fateh!

MKhalsa Ji, thanks for your explanation, however this <banned word filter activated> (ME) still doesn't get it!

Please could you expand a little further, since if it really does mean that "you should not go near it, shouldnt take it, for you, the father, it is poison, do not steal your daughters belongings etc.." then why only the daughter?

Is it by default fine for the father to 'steal' from his son? I think not...sorry if this seems picky, but I really can't my head around this one...

: : :

Also, could someone pro

vide a reference for these Hukams? There appears to be none on the sites which display them...

Forgive my foolishness,

-forever at the feet of the Sadh Sangat-

: : :

[Mkhalsa]

I dont have any references, i heard it was taken out of a newspaper or something which reprinted it.

Think about hte times. fathers and husbands would pillage 'their' womens' assets. Dowry, sati all such things were commonplace.

So this is just an analogy that fathers should not be taking their daughters things, as for a father it is like poison, they shouldnt touch it. same thing for husband wife, etc.. i think its just common sense that it applies to all such situations.

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

I typed this up quite a while ago. My source is an article in "Sikh Virsa" (Volume 6, Number 61, December 2000). In the article, it is stated that these were from Nander (Nanded, Maharastra).

[Niranjana]

I dont have any references, i heard it was taken out of a newspaper or something which reprinted it.

Think about hte times. fathers and husbands would pillage 'their' womens' assets. Dowry, sati all such things were commonplace.

So this is just an analogy that fathers should not be taking their daughters things, as for a father it is like poison, they shouldnt touch it. same thing for husband wife, etc.. i think its just common sense that it applies to all such situations.

Sardar Mkhalsa Jeeo,

Thanks again for getting back to me –I do see where you’re coming from, however common sense is not so common for this moorakh (!) so I appreciate your patience in this matter. The remaining thoughts I have on this matter is that much of what you allude to is in many ways covered by the following hukams, especially (48) and (51) which cover theft and misappropriation explicitly and the others the respect of Women and following Gurmat.

1) Dharam di Kirat karni - Earn by honest means.

8) Shabad da abhihas karna - Practice Shabad Gurbani in life.

15)Par-Istri, Ma-Bhain, Dhi-Bhain, kar jaanani. Par Istri da sang nahi karna - Recognize all other women other than your wife as mothers and sisters. Do not engage in marital behavior with them.

16)Istri da mooh nahi fitkaarnaa - Do not silence your wife?

23

)Mat uchi tae suchi rakhni - Keep the religious discipline high and pure.

24)Shubh karman tao kadae naa ttarnaa - Do not refrain from doing Righteous deeds.

32)Gurupdaesaa noo dhaaran karna - Follow the teachings of the Guru.

38)Sir munae noo kanaiaa nahi daeni. Uos ghar daevni jithae Akal Purukh di sikhi ha, jo karzaai naa hovae, bhalae subhaa da hovae, bibaeki atae gyanvaan hovae - Do not given a daughter's hand to a clean shaven. Give her hand in a house where God's Sikhi exists, where the household is not in debt, is of a good nature, is disciplined and knowledgable.

39)Subh kaaraj Gurbani anusaar karnae - Do all work in accordance with Gurbani.

48)Chori, yaari, tthugi, dhokaa, dagaa bahi karnaa - Do not engage in theft, gangs?, fraud, and falisity?

51)Dhroh nahi karnaa - Do not cheat.

That said, I don’t negate the reasoning for this hukam as clearly there were such horrendous malpractice in common occurrence with regard to Women –the only place I’d differ from you is that they wasn’t simply the case then, it still is the case now –hence the explicit mentions against Kurimar/Narimar (female infanticide) in all puratan and modern rehit namas.

I say this, as one would have thought that Gurmat would essentially be against Kurimar, however it was and still is a big issue in Punjab (part of the darker side of Punjabi ‘culture’) as I have made mention of in my other posts on abortion, that explicit mention was warranted –I guess the same is the case here.

The main reason for me raising this issue originally is not entirely that my lack of common sense didn’t allow me to consider the line of thought that Sardar Mkhalsa Sahib has clarified, but actually to illustrate the problems of interpreting this line –by this I refer to the common placed thought that one shouldn’t take anything from females (as mentioned by Bhai/Bibi Brave Khalsa Sahib/Sahiba –sorry, don’t wish to make any assumptions!), even if its yo

ur own Daughter giving you a present....etc etc...

This discussion simply shows to me, that one should keep in mind historical impacts and cultural impacts surrounding the hukams, teachings and other guidance provided by our Gurus and Gursikhs thereafter...otherwise, as we all too often see, it becomes very easy to misunderstand with our present day cultural and social bias. Following through, it also highlights the need to keep things relevant and updated as per the equivalent present day versions of these cultural, historical and social aspects –as per the abortion debate, clearly this is the present day version of Kurimar, as per the Masands, we have seen plenty of recent evidence and Hukamnamas indicative of their present day equivalent in the past year alone...the list is endless, and generally boils down to using one’s common sense and seeking guidance from Guru Ji over and above anyone or anything else...

[NOTE: I’m not against culture or history, simply that we must take these into account as they are part of our everyday life and since Sikhi is a lifestyle, Gurmat works to guide us through everyday life and not just the time we spend in the Gurdwara]

-forgive my sheer foolishness...

-forever at the feet of the Sadh Sangat-

[Summeet Kaur]

[NOTE: I’m not against culture or history, simply that we must take these into account as they are part of our everyday life and since Sikhi is a lifestyle, Gurmat works to guide us through everyday life and not just the time we spend in the Gurdwara]

Waheguroo...

Sounds like something I would say

Gurmat is indeed the way of the light..and it would be nothing if it were just time spent in Gurdwara Sahib, while that is one of the important aspects of Gursikhi Jeevan it is much beyond that as you stated Jeeio!

In my humble (and small budhee) opinion these 52 Hukams were set for this purpose, to further guide Sikhs in a more 'wordly manner'. Guru Jee tells us how to conduct business, what to study, how to treat others, what sort of families we should get married into, etc... It is beyond the Spiritual Guidance..it guides us through our lifestyle..our Gursikhi jeevan.

Perhaps some of these don't make sense to us at the present time, but I'm quite sure they had some higher meaning at the time period they were written in.

16)Istri da mooh nahi fitkaarnaa - Do not silence your wife?

Personally I think it means give equality (and rights) to your w

ife..let her speak her opinion, let her share her feelings, and don't silence her while she is doing the speaking! Women in Guru Jee's times were given great equality and I think this is a reminder of that, they are the Guardians of our Faith, they keep their Sangat (Husband) anchored, and instill good qualities, and of course Sikhi into their children. The condition at present is quite sad though, most women who have such qualities are much older and of course wiser.

Just a side note : The present women (18-35) most of them are so wrapped up with dating especially non-Sikhs, fashion, money, and 'getting places' they could care less for such great values, no wonder equality is not as high as it used to be, women are giving themselves a bad name!

39)Subh kaaraj Gurbani anusaar karnae - Do all work in accordance with Gurbani.

Another guiding hukam of our Gursikhi Jeevan. In Guru jee all the answers are found, how to study, how to work, how to serve, how to be happy and successful in life, relationships, work anything! With each and every breath we remember the Divine, so it is inevitable that all our work will be done in accordance with Bani. My point is that if you understand and follow Guru Jee with an honest, devotional heart..these hukams will already be a part of you! These hukams are there to further show you that in bani it is written that with every breath you remember and praise the divine so with that do all your work in accordance with bani How beautiful is that??

15)Par-Istri, Ma-Bhain, Dhi-Bhain, kar jaanani. Par Istri da sang nahi karna - Recognize all other women other than your wife as mothers and sisters. Do

not engage in marital behavior with them.

Guru jee says:

inmK kwm suAwd kwrix koit idns duKu pwvih ] GrI muhq rMg mwxih iPir bhuir bhuir pCuqwvih ]1]

nimakh kaam suaadh kaaran kott dhinas dhukh paavehi || gharee muhath ra(n)g maanehi fir bahur bahur pashhuthaavehi ||1||

For a moment of <admin-profanity filter activated> pleasure, you shall suffer in pain for millions of days. For an instant, you may savor pleasure, but afterwards, you shall regret it, again and again. ||1||

Again Guru Jee, Gurdev Pita Jee are guiding us with these bachaans to instill a sense of divinity inside of us, purity, high morals/virtues..it is beyond the spiritual..they thought of us in every sense..waheguroo..perhaps I look at things in too much of an 'optimistic light', but I become so full of Bliss when I read these Hukams and bachans from Guru Jee, they're truly looking out for US!! This is all part of that Gursikhi Jeevan lifestyle..to bring light to these dark ages..

Regarding this hukam, I think it is quite obvious that it it saying one should NEVER cheat on their spouse in any way (this includes dreaming/thinking of other males/females even!). We all realise that Khalsa means we are all the siblings of Gurdev Pita, hence everyone is our sibling of destiny. The problem I see at present though is that it is merely NOT ENOUGH to call some Veerji or Bhenji/Didi..your mind set has to be 100% fixed that this person is my brother..my sister..nothing more..

There are so many more I wish to speak about..but I have very limited knowledge inside of me, so I'd like to hear the Sangat's thoughts first before I even try to do some vichaar (if you can even call it that!)

Great discussions by the way...

p.s./Sangat Jeeio..be HAPPY find Bliss in the smallest of things...

[DeSingh]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

I just want to say that i'ts really great to read those hukams and your thoughts, they are so inspiring. It is kind of difficult to find people like you around here, you all seem to be very commited with sikhi. There has been times when I think that meeting people like you it's only a dream, then I got here and realized that it is not.

Please forgive my ignorance, can anyone tell me the meaning of this words?

- Veer

- BHULL CHUKK MAFF

- Vichaar

Thanks a lot!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!!

[Niranjana]

Just a side note : The present women (18-35) most of them are so wrapped up with dating especially non-Sikhs, fashion, money, and 'getting places' they could care less for such great values, no wonder equality is not as high as it used to be, women are giving themselves a bad name!

Gur Fateh!

Summet Kaur Jeeo, thanks for the uplifting words. Just a quick point on the comment below with regard to "present women (18-35)", I hear where you're coming from, however, this is a complex topic.

By that I mean, with this approach, we are saying that the 'problem' is essentially 'young women' wanting to enjoy "fashion, money, and getting ahead"...

...now, firstly, these traits are not limited to young women alone, however my main issue is, is this really 'the' problem or is it rather a result of an issue futher down the line, by which I mean to ask, why do 'young women', for want of a better term, feel the need to indulge 'excessively' in these matters?

There is always a cause to an action -w

e can blame it on "modern" or "western" influences, but guys, let's get real...the fault rarely lies outside...personally, I feel that the Sikh community and Sikh Men in particular need to take a look at themselves and then wonder why this type of 'reaction' occurs from 'young women' rather than use them as continual target to blame for our negative issues.

I realise that my views may be offensive to some, for which I apologise, for the record, I am not condoning these actions as acceptable, simply that we should look to the root cause, rather than an easy target -which sadly, women always seem to be...

-forever at the feet of the Sadh Sangat-

[S1ngh]

Please forgive my ignorance, can anyone tell me the meaning of this words?

- Veer

- BHULL CHUKK MAFF

- Vichaar

Sure with no problem at all

veer = brother

Bhull Chukk Maff = Forgive me if i said something wrong or offend anyone here

Vichaar = Spread the word of guru (ex: gurbani vicchar)

[DeSingh]

Thank you so much S1ngh!!

I thougth none wanted to answer