Gays and Lesbians within Sikhism

[Jagmeet]

a very interesting and educating discuission,

keep it going, try to bring out gurbani quotes, such as Anand Karaj.

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[((((:-)]

isn't there some british gay sikh association or something? i've heard about it a few times... :T:

[smartsingh24]

I want to apologize if i start using caps or nething, but this is a rant, and i'll try to censor words and so forth, so i apologize in advance mod ji, and everyone reading this, because anger is not a good thing.

God, I can't believe this thread has gone on this long. To those Cowards that are too afraid to sign up, and have to post under the facade of being a guest, it's pretty clear ur just fueling the hate. I mean seriously? GAY HATER? God that is just INSANE. Not to mention wild accusatios of cutting out sex all together by making a generalization on this whole forum. Good god. God does not 'curse' his beings, god makes everyone single one unique, and it is nowhere near our place to judge others. Why am i saying this? Because as Sikhs we are judged ever damn day. Every single day we're judged, especially after the terror attacks. Further more, we shouldn't be blasting these people just because they're diffrent, we should be helping them, because they face the same, if not, even more hate then we do. How do you feel when ur called a terrorist? It put me off of hershey's choclate for a while (long story). If there's anybody that could relate to our people, it'd be people that have been discrimnated against, which would include the jews, the blacks, the irish, the gays, and basically NEONE THAT AIN"T WHITE. I'm sick and tired of being told not to judge, especially when people are doing it themselves u STUPID HYPOCRITES. God, you people just get me riled up everytime you go on this forum. I'm not as eloquent with words, like sikhforlife, or mkhalsa, but I drive my point in. Don't come to this forum if you don't have the gut

s to say who you are, saying your singhs or kaurs. A real singh would say his point, fearlessly. Yes, being gay is anti-sikhi, but i dont' see neone bashing people that aren't sikh for doing stuff, like eating meat, smoking, drinking, or cutting hair. No one on this forum has done that to other people like you idiots have. i look forward to the day when stupid s**** like this doesn't show up on our forum nemore.

[GuruJiDiPyari]

i can't stand it anymore sangat jee...

I really dont see the point of talking about something like this when it is not even an issue today. Sorry I don't mean to offend anyone or to say that anyones' views are wrong...but I feel I have wasted my time reading three pages of something that isn't even causing any trouble. IS IT?! I am not going against anything, people want to live their own way, who are we to stop them?

I feel the need to say this and for myself as well: we need to focus on our own life and how we carry it out and improve it instead of using half our brain to discuss something that's not getting us close to Vaheguru. I think we can manage our time well by improving ourselves first. Sorry I am not point any fingers to any particular person, so don't get offended. This is my opinion in general...

Each second of our life is worth something...let's make it of good use... :lol:

bhul chuk muaaf...Waheguru jee ka khalsa Waheguru jee ki fateh!

[Bijla Singh]

1) habhae saak koorraavae ddit(h)ae tho palai thaiddai laagee ||1|| 963

with gay marriage should it be changed to "laaga"?

2) gay marriage is non-procreative in all ways. God created a balance and for the creation to exist only man and woman can do it. two arguments are used against this.

a) after woman reaches menopause, sex is also non-procreative. this argument fails because gay marriage is non-procreative for all times and it is very dangerous for a woman to have a baby after 45 or 50. so this argument does not hold. any gay couple cannot have a baby unless they adopt a child but it is still non-procreative. menopause is a natural process whereas gay thing is totally unnatural.

b) marriage ppl use condoms or birth pills so it is non-procreative also. still this argument fails because gay sex is non-procreative with or without condoms or birth pills.

3) "Eaka Naari Jati Hoae" it does not say "eaka purakh" does it? it clearly refers to man to have only one wife not one husband.

4) "Until the day you take your last breath, you must take this in and never forget it. You must forever keep respect for your wife. You must never go onto another women’s bed, even in a dream." (Sri Dasam Granth Ang 842)

does not say "onto another man's bed". proves that union between only man and woman is acceptable in Sikhi.

5) Khanda----a symbol that represents so many things. but look at the double edged sword in the middle. it has three edges. one on the top represents one Waheguru who is above all. two edges on the sides represent balance of God i.e. man woman, hell heaven, good bad etc. gay marriage goes against th

at balance.

This is speaking from Sikhi point of view. as said in earlier posts by other ppl that one cannot be gay and sikh at the same time. there can be difference between what Sikhs do and what Sikhi teaches. Look at what Sikhi teaches not what Sikhs do and how they do it. I am done. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[S1ngh]

I really dont see the point of talking about something like this when it is not even an issue today.

Well said..

[sikhlionz]

let's not judge the gay community as nobody here has the right to do so

nobody is saying the gay community should be prevented from being active in sikhi as sikhi is in its nature always going to be open to the whole of mankind to learn from

the question is will being gay and being a sikh work coherently or will this represent a fundamental duality in their life?

as i see it everyone's just arguing from 2 different perspectives:

1) nature argument- gays are born that way and thus cannot help being who they and so were created by akal purakh ji in the gay roop and so they can make do with their lot when they were born and so sikhi is fully open to them

2) nurture argument- people become gay due to something in their environment as they are brought up, etc. and so this is about a kaam effect on their mun and so they need to tackle this to develop further in sikhi

in terms of their nature of being born transgender people fall under the nature argument and sikhi is open to them

as far as i know there has not been a gay gene found to prove the nature argument. anyhow this is not about the science- it is an issue of sikhi:

if it is barely an issue now hen it was not an issue in Guruji's time as it is not directly referred to in sikhi in SGGS ji. However what we do know is that grehsth jeevan is promoted and the union ibetween man and woman is promoted regularly as well as saying they should be true to each other

if they want to be sikh and gay then thats fine but the question is do they together form a duality

answering this question is not judging anybody

i'm not taking sides :lol: until i'm better informed

[P_Singh]

sorry to bring up an old post, and not to start any controversies, but I was searching the archives on sikhe.com and came across this...

http://www.sikhe.com/gsdno/articles/essay/...yandsikhism.htm

I was surprised to say the least, having read some of the comments, i.e. "a number of prominent Indian figures who are believed to have had gay relationships. They include Maharaja Ranjit Singh, who was known to have male and female concubines alongside his numerous wives"....

I don't know much about Maharaja Ranjit Singh, but I was like reading this and other material here....

what do you guys think?

[Guest rsingh]

this is a load of bull, sorry but i dont agree. thiis thing comes up over and over again,

Quote "Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself said "manas ki jat sabhe ekhi pechanbo" - " " End Quote

When the pardan of a Gurudwara weds his daughter to a non sikh in an illegal Anand Karag people say, look how good he is he recognisess Guroo ji's words. That is complete bull. Guru ji never said that, we interpret Bani as we want to hear it, not the way Guru ji said it.

Oh and the fact mahraja ranjit singh. if the person is so sure he dont he give proof. I'll tell yuo y cause hes speakin <admin-profanity filter activated>. I dont belive Mahraja Ranjit singh had more then 1 wife who he was marriedd to, may be im wrong. I belive the others where in seperate tents and wanted to accompy him.

Now people are gone say i got my head in the sand, well see.

[Guest rsingh]

I just needed to confirm some thing before i posted it but here it goes.

People also say Guru ji had more than 1 wife, which is wrong, people say 3 or so., that is untrue

Guru Gobind Singh ji married once, Mata Jito ji and Mata Sundarui ji was 1 person, she was called 1 name by her family before marriage and another after marriage by her inlaws. History has recorded the same person in 2 different names.

After mata Sahib kaur went to Guru ji and wanted to marry him but guru ji would not as he all ready was married. Guru sahib Ji let her travel with him, and she lived in seperate quaters. Guru ji then made her Mother of the Khalsa, as she added the patasa on Vasakhi during the first Amrit Sanchar, where we became her children. like that I belive there are misconceptions about Mahraja Ranjit Singh.

well thats wat I think about that

oh and id be vary of that site in future.

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ADMIN NOTE: This topic is now closed as the discussion has been exhausted enough. Please search the forum topics for past threads on this issue if you have any further questions or concerns. -8