After Khalistan

[ParwinderSingh]

WAHE GURU JI KA KHALSA

WAHE GURU JI KI FATEH

IM IN MY LAST YEAR OF MY ECONOMICS DEGREE,

so after graduation , we cud all pop over to india , get our Khalistan and then ill help all u guys on how to run the placelol ........ but on a serious note ppl shudnt doubt sikhs , everthing will be fair and just. As Bhai Rama Ji ses in his book, Guru Gobind wont give us Khalistan till we are ready , till ppl become true Sikhs ..... The Guru Grath Sahib Ji will lead us.

JO BOLE SO NIHAL SAT SIRI AKAAL!!

[LostSoul]

LOL I was thinking is it THE Bilja Singh who wrote this or someone with the same name? No worries I never think you try attacking me, questions are meant to be answered! Maybe Im somewhere in between Bilja? Maybe I want to find a sturdy foundation before I lay the bricks of choice? I would never think that, since someone may not agree with me I shouldnt explain my views to them. If someone wants to know about the movement shouldnt you help them understand? If someone wasnt Sikh and asked questions about Sikhi, with no intent of converting, would we blow them off and tell them "Ill only explain my religion if your thinking of converting"? Another question (If your willing to answer) is do you still stand by what you wrote four years ago, or has your stance differed? Im really interested in what would happen if a Khalistan did come into exsistence since that is my home there as well, I have family in Punjab just like you, so I would be greately affected by a new Government, and I would like to know how it plans to run, I think thats reason enough for someone to take the time to explain it, right?

"Now, if I don't know what it takes to run a country then shouldn't I study how other countries run? Shouldn't I study their policies, constitutions etc? Hopefully, you understand my point."

Lets pick a country and study it then? Who is worthy enough for us to model our Government after? This post I made is serious to, and no worry say what you want Brother, when a topic is heated enough it makes it worth debating, and during heated debated, heated words are exchanged. but at the end of the day I have love for you just like I got love for everyone else :lol:

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

"Lets wait and see what happens and how many promises are actually kept/fulfilled . Remember at the end of the day a politician is a politician, no matter what religion he/she follows . "

that's the thing mehtab singh, sikhs are not good politicians because sikhs are simple at heart and very sidhe...look at sant sipahi jarnail singh ji khalsa, he was a great leader but had no qualities of a "politician" politicians care about kursi but sikhs' don't even care about their own heads let alone a kursi. Mehtab singh, these are the same sikhs who fight at the border even though their religion has been defiled, these are the same sikhs jinnah de bara waje si, let's not treat them like we don't know their history. If there is one thing that people know about sikhs, it is that the friendship of a sikh is unbreakable and the anger of a sikh is unbearable.

[Mehtab Singh]

the friendship of a sikh is unbreakable and the anger of a sikh is unbearable.

Which is what makes us even more deadlier and not to be messed with :nihungsmile:

[Bijla Singh]

If someone wants to know about the movement shouldnt you help them understand? If someone wasnt Sikh and asked questions about Sikhi, with no intent of converting, would we blow them off and tell them "Ill only explain my religion if your thinking of converting"?

Sure, share your views, I don’t mind. Your questions are not related to the movement but to something that will happen after the movement wins independence. Asking questions on religion is different than asking questions on Khalistan. It is not that I don’t like your questions or anything but I personally have talked to sooooo many people about this that I do not know who is an open minded person and who is wasting my time. At LA Smagam (Nov. 26) many people discussed this matter with me and my friend. Some asked questions very humbly acting like they knew nothing but as we presented more and more facts they turned more and more against the movement. They had no interests in seeking answers but just looking for a debate and waste our time. At the end, majority of the people agreed with us and those who didn’t left in between the conversation giving us the “evil” looks. So I really don’t know your position. Even if you are an innocent person asking for answers with an open mind, I have no way to tell that. This is why I am asking you to clarify your position and stance. You are either against us or with us. You cannot be neutral because you know enough about Khalistan, its need, and what it means for Sikhs. If you were neutral you would be asking something like “Why fight for Khalistan, why do we need it, what happened etc.” Neutral people I have met do not care about the movement. But maybe I misunderstood you. So tell me where do you stand? What kind of neutral person are you? It is a simple question: Do you support Khalistan? Simple yes or no.

Another question (If your willing to answer) is do you still stand by what you wrote four years ago, or has your stance differed? Im really interested in what would happen if a Khalistan did come into exsistence since that is my home there as well, I have family in Punjab just like you, so I would be greately affected by a new Government, and I would like to know how it plans to run, I think thats reason enough for someone to take the time to explain it, right?

My stance? I support Khalistan even more strongly than I used to. I rather starve to death in Khalistan than live a rich life in a foreign country.

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਬਾਰਿ ਪਰਾਇਐ ਬੈਸਣਾ ਸਾਂਈ ਮੁਝੈ ਨ ਦੇਹਿ ॥

Fareed begs, O Lord, do not make me sit at another's door.

ਜੇ ਤੂ ਏਵੈ ਰਖਸੀ ਜੀਉ ਸਰੀਰਹੁ ਲੇਹਿ ॥42॥

If this is the way you are going to keep me, then go ahead and take the life out of my body. ||42||

What will happen in Khalistan? Very hard to explain but I can tell you what will not happen: Oppression, injustice, rapes, attacks on other religions and basically whatever happened to us in 1984.

Lets pick a country and study it then? Who is worthy enough for us to model our Government after?

Other countries are examples not role models. For me, kingdom of Baba Banda Singh and rule of Bhai Shabegh Singh Ji are more than perfect. You seriously undermine the power of Sikhs and their moral character. You cannot understand the true power of Khalsa Raj unless you know Sikhi and Khalsa.

First tell me your position and I will discuss (not debate) it with you otherwise you can wait for 6-7 months. Guru Rakha.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[LostSoul]

Actually the questions are related to the movement. How can the movement quit right after Independence? It needs to follow through to ensure the stability of the new nation. The movement will always need to continue for some reason or the other. My stance? My neutrailty may be swayed if I can see actual thought is being put fourth on not only achieving Khalistan, but maintaining it as well.

"I rather starve to death in Khalistan than live a rich life in a foreign country."

But along with you brother thousands of women and children might starve as well. What I meant when I asked if you still felt the same was, do you still hold all the same ideaologys? Such as invading Pakistan after achievement, and banning any non gurmukhs, I wrote the questions in my second post.

"For me, kingdom of Baba Banda Singh and rule of Bhai Shabegh Singh Ji are more than perfect."

They ruled the land more in a style of Kingdomship, which I hardly think will sway the masses today. I hope you do take some time to answer the questions, since Im genuinely asking out of curiosity for myself, my family, and my land. BTW what did you mean by waiting 6-7 months?

[Bijla Singh]

Actually Indias economy is one of the fastest growing economies in the world.

Is this not from foreign companies going there and starting business? Do sea ports play a significant role in this? What about improving lives of the people. 85% people don’t even have toilets. In UP many villages do not have electricity. India is still a third world country. According to a survey taken about 4 years ago India ranked 97 out of hundred. 100 was the worst. Kuwait has only oil but not a single drop of water. India on the other hand has almost no oil. So not every country has to have everything in order to survive.

Punjabi is a food producing country, not enough grain could be produced to feed the people and financially benefit the government

Much of the food comes from Punjab which means there won’t be many people starving. Besides, the government purposely did not want to develop any industry in Punjab. Six major projects were setup in Haryana but not a single one in Punjab. On the top of that Badal is making it extra hard for foreign companies to stay there. One time I went to Mervyns and picked up a t-shirt that was made in India and it cost about $40. Guess what? These t-shirts came from Punjab and the guy who ships ‘em out gets $3 a piece. Indonesia is a third world country but Nike costs $15 a pair. Countries may start out poor but with better educated leaders and with the help of people anything is possible.

plus massive army that would be needed

Army is needed for sure but that doesn’t prove anything. Every Sikh is a saint soldier. There are about 600,000 retired generals in Punjab who can give training.

Where will our oil piplines run through? Enemy India?

Explain more? Pipelines for what purpose?

No alot of them dont. How will Khalistan control the seaports? I thought we only wanted Punjab? Where will the money for planes come from?

1. Afghanistan 7. Central Africa 13. Slovakia

2. Austria 8. Czech Republic 14. Switzerland

3. Belarus 9. Hungary 15. Uganda

4. Bolivia 10. Mongolia 16. Zaire

5. Bhutan 11. Nepal 17. Zambia

6. Chad 12. Niger 18. Zimbabwe

The above 18 countries are landlocked and yet surviving. The question is of survival. If these countries can survive then so can we. Just look at them and tell me how many are first world countries? We may not have any control over sea ports but if you know how to do business you can negotiate and use sea ports. And btw, How much money did India have in 1947? And how much do you think we need in order to survive? Be realistic here. Money comes later.

Politicians with morals?? haha! So this is actually a theocratic State?

Clearly you do not know anything about Sikh politics. Did Guru Gobind Singh Ji not have morals? Did other gursikhs not have moral? Do you really believe that there is not a single politician in the world who has no moral character whatsoever? You really need to put some rational thoughts in your comments.

So basically anyone who isnt Sikh/amrit dhari will be kicked out? Thats not religious freedom!

Never implied anywhere in the article.

What if a Muslim wants to eat his chicken? Deport him to Pakistan?

Show me where in Quran it is written that Muslims are obligated to eat meat? Muslims mostly eat beef but look at what happens to those who kill cows in India. Is that religious freedom? Do muslims not eat vegetarian food in Pakistan?

What about the Christian who wants a sip of his wine?

Again, does bible require Christians to drink wine?

sounds more and more like a religious police state, another mass migration with more refugees! Doesnt sound like a pleasent, open, welcoming land of love!

It won’t be perfect for everyone. As far as I know only Sikhs are fighting for their homeland and I am sure they will not compromise their religious beliefs just to show some “love”. If people could live under rule of Sikhs in the past then surely they can do the same in the present. Our country will be based on Miri Piri.

So after a war with India, its on to Pakistan? Create a hostile Border all around? What about the Muslims there? Would Pakistan let its Capital fall so easily?

Though East Punjab belongs to us but I do not think attacking and forceful take over is the right way. When people in Delhi asked Bhai Jassa Singh Ji to leave they left because Sikhs did not want to rule the area by force. But the Gurdwaras will certainly be ours. We can negotiate with Pakistani government and have control over our Gurdwaras and they can have control over their mosques. Pakistani government already helps us way more than GOI. Their capital is not in East Punjab.

Sikhs have beaten Pakistan twice? I didnt know that, I thought the Indian army gave a little help to, with all the tanks, guns, and fighter planes!

No doubt weapons are necessary to fight the war but at the end weapons do not make you victorious. What if there are no people who can pick up arms and fight? Why doesn’t the government hand the same weapons to hindus and asks them to fight in Kasmir? See what happens. Ukraine has major stockpile of nuclear weapons but as we know they are not powerful at all.

Economy, business and politics are not my areas so I cannot give you exact answers as to how we will run everything. My area is electrical and I know what to do when Khalistan is created. Also, I do not think anyone would draft up all the policies and present them to you because all of the countries that exist today did not have constitution and policies before they achieved independence. USA got it after 13 years. India and Pakistan after 3 years. So we don’t have to have everything ready to go. If you want to live a free life you must be willing to fight for you rights and look for solutions. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Mehtab Singh]

Is this not from foreign companies going there and starting business?

Yes foreign companies started opening branches in India after they saw the academic calibre of Indian students in USA.

Do sea ports play a significant role in this?

Ofcourse.

There are about 600,000 retired generals in Punjab who can give training.

Thats if they are all Khalistan supporters. Since they are retired army generals, they gonna be dead patriotic. So no point considering those 600,000.

How much money did India have in 1947?

Around 200 crores I believe, out of which a chunk was given to Pakistan probably.

And how much do you think we need in order to survive?

Less than that.

Do you really believe that there is not a single politician in the world who has no moral character whatsoever?

Politics (in Greek) = poli (many) + tics (blood sucking termites)

Show me where in Quran it is written that Muslims are obligated to eat meat?

They celebrate Bakreed when they slaughter goats and then eat them. So yes they are supposed to eat meat.

Muslims mostly eat beef but look at what happens to those who kill cows in India.

What happens?

Again, does bible require Christians to drink wine?

But Jesus drank it.

As far as I know only Sikhs are fighting for their homeland

Looks like you will need to do more research on insurgencies in India. There are separatists on all corners wanting to separate.

Our country will be based on Miri Piri.

Hope so too.

Though East Punjab belongs to us

How do you decide that? Are other communities like cattle thay they have no rights?

We can negotiate with Pakistani government and have control over our Gurdwaras

Lets see if they listen to us.

and they can have control over their mosques.

obviously!

Pakistani government already helps us way more than GOI.

Yes but only to suit their own needs, i.e de-stabilize India. They helped Kharkoo Singhs but when Benazir Bhutto came to power, then they showed their real colors. She disclosed everything and thats how immediately a number of Kharkoo Singhs were Shaheeds. You support Khalistan is perfectly fine, but trusting someone like Pakistan is a grave mistake.

Economy, business and politics are not my areas so I cannot give you exact answers as to how we will run everything.

Well too bad then, coz thats what runs a country's infrastructure.

[Bijla Singh]

Yes foreign companies started opening branches in India after they saw the academic calibre of Indian students in USA.

and cheap labor. also, they can do business in Khalistan. Nothing is stopping them.

Thats if they are all Khalistan supporters. Since they are retired army generals, they gonna be dead patriotic. So no point considering those 600,000.

We don't know if they are anti-Khalistani. there are still Sikhs in the army. all hindus knew was how to spin the wheel when they got their country.

Politics (in Greek) = poli (many) + tics (blood sucking termites)

My question was about politicians not the meaning of the word. btw, thanks for the definition.

They celebrate Bakreed when they slaughter goats and then eat them. So yes they are supposed to eat meat.

If they are required then I guess we can work it out. but it will be prohibited at some places. There are restrictions on other religions in UAE and other countries so expect some restrictions.

But Jesus drank it.

Any reference will be great. are Christians required to drink wine on special holy days?

Looks like you will need to do more research on insurgencies in India. There are separatists on all corners wanting to separate.

You misunderstood me. I meant that only Sikhs are fighting for their homeland. In other words, other communities did not join our movement.

How do you decide that? Are other communities like cattle thay they have no rights?

I never said anything about other communities. Am I claiming our rights over Kerela or Bihar? No. we died for Punjab, we ruled Punjab. Our history is in Punjab. Our first Gurdwara is in Punjab. Just because it belongs to us doesn't mean others can't live there. Even Mohammad Shah called Sikhs "Soul of Punjab".

Lets see if they listen to us.

Time will tell. You will be surprised. Hindus have betrayed and opposed us more than muslims.

Yes but only to suit their own needs, i.e de-stabilize India. They helped Kharkoo Singhs but when Benazir Bhutto came to power, then they showed their real colors. She disclosed everything and thats how immediately a number of Kharkoo Singhs were Shaheeds. You support Khalistan is perfectly fine, but trusting someone like Pakistan is a grave mistake.

I know but they still help us more. Just look at our Gurdwaras in Pakistan. The government spent lot of money on recosntruction. There was no blue star in Pakistan. They are willing to allow more Sikhs to visit Gurdwaras but GOI doesn't want it to happen. All Gurdwaras in Pakistan are unique but in India most of them look the same. thanks to GOI for destroying our heritage through SGPC. trusting pakistan would be a mistake but trusting GOI would be even worse.

Well too bad then, coz thats what runs a country's infrastructure.

is everyone in UAE an economist and a politician? I support Khalistan but do I have to know everything and every business policy? how many hindus know Indian constitution? There are many Sikhs who are professional in these areas who can contribute. Like I said, my area is different and I will be more than happy to make my contribution. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Mehtab Singh]

other communities did not join our movement.

Then why do you say that Pakistan supplied the Kharkoo Singhs with ammunition? Why do we hear stories of Hindus who took Amrit and became Singhs and joined the Babbars, some even attained shaheedi?

Hindus have betrayed and opposed us more than muslims.

A bunch of hill rajas vs mughals is no way to brand all Hindus as traitors and all Muslims as your buddies.

Just look at our Gurdwaras in Pakistan.

I have seen the pictures...very sad state...

The government spent lot of money on recosntruction.

Yes...very recently they woke up...

There was no blue star in Pakistan.

Sri Darbar Sahib is not in Pakistan.

All Gurdwaras in Pakistan are unique but in India most of them look the same.

So? whats wrong in that? and if there is something wrong who can we blame?

is everyone in UAE an economist and a politician?

They are all with a vision, which is why the economy as well as the GDP has grown by 8% just this year.

how many hindus know Indian constitution?

Why you wanna be like Hindus now? Whats the point of comparing Sikhs with Hindus if we are so dead bent on being different in everything we do?

There are many Sikhs who are professional in these areas who can contribute.

Again, depends how many are on your side.