Abortion/unprotected Sex

[Taran]

And just to add.. my personal belief is that sex should only be done when trying to have children.. and for the argument that you only will have sex a few times in life.. firstly.. were not here/ we haven't been given this life to have fun and sex.. were here to do paat and simran and secondly you can't guarantee that everytime you have sex you will make a child.. some ppl try their whole lives but never have children.. end of the day.. everything is not in our control.. gods will..

pul chuck maaf

Gurfateh.

[Ishna]

Uh oh.. where does it say you can't use contraception?

And if we're here only to do paat and simran, then why are we encouraged to be householders and live a "normal" functioning life? Why not head for the hills and become a recluse so no one can interrupt your simran and you can do simran until you die -- if God wants you to live then berries will appear in your mouth and you will never need to go out and find water.

In moderation, sex with your husband or wife should be a nurturing, healthy activity that helps to foster strength in the relationship.

I would like to see some evidence that forbids the use of contraception within Sikhi, thank you.

With respect,

Ishna.

[LostSoul]

"Everything is in the will of god.. if a baby was meant to be born, then it should, if the woman carrying the baby was not meant to make it, then thats gods will"

What if it was in Gods will to have the abortion?

[randip singh]

i think people are too embaressed to answer this question!

Il give you the answer i think, Sikhi does not permit abortion as children are a gift from God but abortion is only allowed in the extremest of extreme cases (ie: either mother or child will die etc.)

146418[/snapback]

Where does it say that?

[gupt_paapi]

its lyk saying "where dus it say not 2 cut ur arm off"

[randip singh]

Yup I agree..

Sex is ment to be a way to show your love as well as procreation. If u jsut use sex for its pleasure, its kaam, lust

Guru Ji warns us form lust. If we try to combat lust, dont haf sex for fun, then the quesotin of contraception cant even pop up!!!

..simple

146431[/snapback]

Kaam = Lust = Obsession with Sex = an unnatural Obsession.

We've been through this debate about Kaam and thats the conclussion everyone has come to.

Kaam is not sex, or the natural act of having sex, but an unatural obsesion with it. An example being an alcoholic who is obsessed with alcohol.

There is nothing wrong with a married couple choosing to have sex as a means of expression of love, even out of procreation. I would get ideas and guilt trips like that out of the head.

Ever seen the film the "Silent Flute" written by Bruce Lee? Crap film but some profound philosophical messages. In there is a man who tries to combat the natural act of sex by trying to dissolve his genetals in oil. He too is confused between Kaam and Sex!!!

[randip singh]

its lyk saying "where dus it say not 2 cut ur arm off"

146577[/snapback]

Thats not a very clever argument, and its not the same as that, just to clarify.

[gupt_paapi]

lol im jsut saying, u failed to understand that its not black and white in sikhi.. Guru Sahib Ji isnt a book of rules..

challo koina apne apne vichaar hunde ah

[randip singh]

lol im jsut saying, u failed to understand that its not black and white in sikhi.. Guru Sahib Ji isnt a book of rules..

challo koina apne apne vichaar hunde ah

146582[/snapback]

Thanks for that response .

In this same way Sikhi is not Black and White about the abortion issue!

[Manchester_Sikhi]

Ishna's viewpoint is what I was asking for in the first place and I havent missed the point. I know too much sex is bad...but please re-read what you are saying....only have sex for when we want babes...are you REALLY telling me that the majority of Sikhi people only have sex between 1 and 10 times over a 50 year period?

If thats the case as Ishna said..why not just become a recluse...that is in effect what we are doing..We all know too much sex is bad...but where does it say sex should only be carried out when we want babies. Secondly, with regards to Taran...please show me where you get the idea that contraception is banned in Sikhi.

I understand this would be difficult, but is it written anywhere or is it explicitly forbidden?

Now, for those who have said we should only have sex when we want kids...

Please show me some quotes to backup your "view-point" or "statement".

I'm fairly open-minded so dont think I'm disagreeing with you, I just prefer to have the evidence for somethings, espicially when it is clearly said we mustnt lead the life of an ascetic....

randip singh has it said it perfectly...KAAM is NOT Sex on its own...KAAM is a over-obsession with SEX. To those who link Kaam with any form of SEX...please explain how this is the case.

LostSoul has another good fact...coming down to karma and Gurus Kirpa...there are those who say we shouldnt have abortions and such...basically shouldnt do anything bad.

But then what if it was Gurus Kirpa that we were meant to do those bad things?

Its all right and good saying Gurus Kirpa for most things..which is fine...but there seems to be some free-will...its a complex mix and debate of karma/gurus kirpa and free will and I doubt there is an answer. But for those who says its Gurus Kirpa regarding sex and contraception and babies...Please tell me why can't it also be Gurus Kirpa that we USE contraception? It works both ways doesnt it...which comes back to the idea of Karma...so we have some free will. Wouldnt it be better if we are in a loving relation, and if we have a occasional sex-life, isnt it morrally right to use a method of contraception if we do not wish to become pregnant? Or would we rather bring an unwanted child into this world?

Also, if you use that argument...then its also Gurus Kirpa that some of us kill people some of us rape people some of us commit acts of evil towards one another.

The idea situation would be this, a good, honest and hardworking Sikhi couple...having love for the Guru and each other (which is the essence of Sikhi..love Guru and one another). They have no problems with sexual relations with one another, they are SENSIBLE and use contraception to avoid having an unwanted pregnancy. What is wrong there? If you lead a good honest married life, are a devout Sikh, love the Sangat and all mankind....where is the wrong in all that.

Looks like this will be a never ending thread! But thanks (so far) to all who have given me their input!!