What's Up Canadian Sikhs?

[Prem]

Alright, I don't want this to sound controversial, it is a serious question.

Over the last few years I have slowly got to know about the crime, drug dealing and thuggery that is a phenomenon in the Canadian Punjabi community in Vancouver. In particular, the issues that strike me as most shocking and depressing is that Punjabis there are massive gangsters and drug dealers, not just marijuana, cocaine and heroine. Look at this article:

It’s estimated there are between 30 and 40 South Asian (Indo-Canadian) gangs in the Lower Mainland.

Most of their members come from middle and upper class families.

In remarks posted on the B.C. Sikh Youth web site (http://www.bcsikhyouth.com), Harbans Singh Kandola, president of VIRSA, the Sikh Alliance Against Violence, relates recent conversations with parents struggling to keep their sons on the straight and narrow.

“A respectable senior member of our community told me that he asked a young man why many of our boys are involved in drug trafficking. His answer was that he only makes $75,000 during the year working as a truck driver while he can make $100,000 in one (drug smuggling) trip,” Kandola says.

“Another father told me that his 18-year-old son believes that the people who own big businesses and houses have made the money through drug trafficking.

“This is the scary mentality of our youth that should concern us most.”

Now I am not saying that Sikhs in the UK are perfect. But there is nothing like this happening amongst Sikhs in the UK. What is going on? What is the matter with Canadian Sikhs? Why have so many of them turned into criminals? In the UK blacks and Pakistanis have reputations for being the biggest drug dealers, pimps, gangsters and thugs, in Canada it seems Sikhs have that reputation.

What has gone wrong?

[Nama Singh]

Hmm... i realised a month or two ago, that the drugs culture amongst Punjabis and Sikhs is not as unpopular as i thought it was here. And i realised that after experiencing something at a Gurdwara, of all places.

The thing is though, the drug culture here seems to be covered up well. It exists underground, rather than on ground.

I remember when i visited Canada a little while back, that i was walking down a very popular asian territory in Surrey, ... and I saw some Punjabis with nok paggs and trimmed turbans, wearing more gold than Mr. T doing some dodgy dealings in cars which were blasting some bhangra tracks. There were blatently exchanges going on. It reminded me of scenes I had only really seen in black movies like Boyz N The Hood or something. I had never even seen this on Soho Rd and i have been there so many times where theres loads of Punjabis. But as i said... the "gang" culture doesnt seem to exist as much in the UK... but the drug culture certainly does.

Bhul chuk maaf

[Prem]

Hmm... i realised a month or two ago, that the drugs culture amongst Punjabis and Sikhs is not as unpopular as i thought it was here. And i realised that after experiencing something at a Gurdwara, of all places.

I would say that drug culture affects Sikhs in the UK as much as anyone else.

But what you don't see is Sikh/Punjabi gangs running drug smuggling rings, heroin, cocaine, pimping, kidnapping, shooting people dead in drive by shootings. It's more like something out of gangsta rap! What has happened to Sikhs in Vancouver that there is this problem with criminality and thuggery?

[Nama Singh]

Wow. Drive by shootings? Has it reached them levels? :wub:

[kurtas]

They even got these punjabi gangsters now appearing in Punjabi music videos flaunting his cars and a certain well known punjabi singer openly giving shouts out to a well known BC gangster at music awards. The drug peddler even turned up with the singer to a music award event in Punjab.

These wannabe Canadian gangsters really need to get a reality check.

[kurtas]

Hmm... i realised a month or two ago, that the drugs culture amongst Punjabis and Sikhs is not as unpopular as i thought it was here. And i realised that after experiencing something at a Gurdwara, of all places.

I would say that drug culture affects Sikhs in the UK as much as anyone else.

But what you don't see is Sikh/Punjabi gangs running drug smuggling rings, heroin, cocaine, pimping, kidnapping, shooting people dead in drive by shootings. It's more like something out of gangsta rap! What has happened to Sikhs in Vancouver that there is this problem with criminality and thuggery?

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Where is all this happening ?

Yes we had the holy smokes and the other breakaway lot but they are not big time anymore.

[anjaan]

Yes we had the holy smokes and the other breakaway lot but they are not big time anymore.

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just general - i thought holy smokes were 'good' like a break away from SP and their members included poeple of different races and religion?

[Prem]

Where is all this happening ?

Over in Vancouver - here are some more stats from that article I linked to

Lately, police have been noticing an increase in the number of “exotic” weapons being seized, in particular AK-47 assault rifles, MAC-10 and Uzi submachine guns or “clones” that mimic their look and function.

RCMP Staff Sgt. John Ward estimates 90 to 95 per cent of the guns are obtained in the United States, stolen or legally purchased south of the border, then smuggled into Canada, often as payment by American importers for “B.C. Bud.”

“Marijuana goes south and cocaine, guns and money comes north,” Ward says.

In its most recent report, Criminal Intelligence Service Canada reports that most gun smuggling efforts involve between two and five firearms, though a few shipments of between 10 and 40 firearms have been discovered.

Figures provided by the Canada Border Services Agency show the number of handguns seized at B.C. crossings is up about 20 per cent last year, based on figures showing 130 working handguns seized during the first 10 months, compared to 130 for all of 2004.

Most police believe only a small percentage of smuggled weapons are intercepted at the border and that thousands are actually in circulation.

Vancouver Police estimate the smuggled guns sell for between $500 to $3,000, depending on the quality.

Ward says the number of handgun seizures in the Lower Mainland is up, but getting the courts to convict owners of illicit guns can be complicated.

“We’re seizing lots of guns where we can’t lay any charges because we can’t prove ownership,” Ward said.

Often, he says a gun will be found under a car seat or tossed in the bushes, with no one willing to admit ownership.

Last December, for example, three handguns were seized by Delta Police outside an all-night restaurant in the 8400 block of Scott Road early on a Sunday morning.

The first two guns were picked up about 1:30 a.m. when police checked a group of young men in the parking lot, finding one pistol had been tossed into the bushes while the other was located in a vehicle.

Later the same morning, there was a fight in the same parking lot that ended when police arrived.

Officers found a third gun concealed behind a newspaper box at the front of the restaurant.

That is just the tip of the iceberg. There are many examples of Sikh boys shooting each other dead in the last ten years, dozens of them, over such things as drug deals and girls. It is a total breakdown of morality and a descent into criminality - totally shocking. The parents have to take some responsibility. They have to ask themselves why this is happening too.

Because in the UK Sikhs have a good reputation for being law abiding, it shocks you to see how much gang culture, drug dealing and crime there is associated with Sikhs in Canada.

[Prem]

just general - i thought holy smokes were 'good' like a break away from SP and their members included poeple of different races and religion? 

They are all thugs and hooligans. There are no good gangs. All are involved in crime and illegal activity - and the way they treat women too. I have heard stories about Holy Smoke and Shere Punjab that are not worth repeating in a family website.

[japmans]

let me take the distinguished honour of bing the first canadian to reply:

Surrey is a wicked wicked place to be. There's amazing parchaar and tons of gursikhs. the downside? there's the underworld of punjabi gangs there too.

I think we have to be fair....the gangs do exist.. they used to be very bad (i don't know bout the more recent activities, but a couple years ago, a large-scale article in Macleans magazine, the canadian equivlaent to Time, was discueed on this very website. Since then we haven't had a discussion on the matter). But i went to surrey last may for a week, and it was an amazing amazing experience.

The problem is, look what happens in our own punjabi circles... one person is always out to shoot the next person down.. if one person is more successeful, someone under him will strive to bring him down. That same mentality has been transferred into the punjabi gang society.. i don't live in surrey, so my commentary might be worthless, but for the week i spent there, witht he exception of one person that i met, i foudn it to be a mini paradise for me... it was a great great experience.

And if anyone wants to buy me a ticket back to surrey, pm me, i'll see what i can do :wub: