Sikh Beliefs About The Soul & Moksha?

[Guest _Seeker_]

Hi, I am very interested to learn more about Sikh beliefs on moksha. Do Sikhs believe jivas are eternal? When we reunite with God will we retain our individuality? like in the Vaishnava belief of returning to Vaikuntha to be individual souls with Vishnu/Krishna, is there a Sikh equivalent of Vaikuntha? Thank you for answering my questions. I want to know if Sikhism teaches that souls are eternal.

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

no, the drop of water(soul) when merged back with the ocean(parmaatma) does not retain any individuality.

yes, sikhi teaches that the soul is eternal because God is eternal. The soul is the embodiment of God and in Sikhi the first line of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji says that God is beyond birth and death and is eternal.

peace.

[Guest Guest]

no, the drop of water(soul) when merged back with the ocean(parmaatma) does not retain any individuality.

yes, sikhi teaches that the soul is eternal because God is eternal. The soul is the embodiment of God and in Sikhi the first line of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji says that God is beyond birth and death and is eternal.

peace.

So Sikhs believe moksha means extinction? if we cease to Be after moksha, why would anyone desire liberation then? I've heard it said this idea of "merging" is the equivalent of spiritual suidice. Why do you desire to cease to exist? Please explain. :D

[Revolutionary]

Cease to exist?! No! We will still exist, our individuality wont exist as we will be one with The One. Moskha doesnt mean extinction i dont know where you got that from.

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

yeah in worldy terms you would be "extinct", meaning no bondage to the cycle of birth an death. No bondage to worldy relationships...spiritually as i stated, the soul in sikhi never dies because it is part of the supreme lord God, who is eternal, or Akaal.

anyways, in sikhi the goal is not Mukhti, or Mokhsha, the goal is to accept God's will, to live according to God's will. Unlike other religions, wher people make deals with God that hey i do this and this and get heaven, Mokhsha etc, Sikhs don't ask for anything in return. True love of God in Sikhi is to just have the opportunity to praise Gods greatness and accept His divine Will.

We don't have a pre-nuptual agreement in our religion, that God, I will love you and in return you liberate me. IN sikhi, we only want God's love.

peace.

dyvgMDwrI 5 ] (534-3)

dayvganDhaaree 5.

Dayv-Gandhaaree, Fifth Mehl:

AMimRqw ipRA bcn quhwry ] (534-3, dyvgMDwrI mÚ 5)

amritaa pari-a bachan tuhaaray.

O Beloved, Your Words are Ambrosial Nectar.

Aiq suMdr mnmohn ipAwry sBhU miD inrwry ]1] rhwau ] (534-3, dyvgMDwrI mÚ 5)

at sundar manmohan pi-aaray sabhhoo maDh niraaray. ||1|| rahaa-o.

O supremely beautiful Enticer, O Beloved, You are among all, and yet distinct from all. ||1||Pause||

rwju n cwhau mukiq n cwhau min pRIiq crn kmlwry ] (534-4, dyvgMDwrI mÚ 5)

raaj na chaaha-o mukat na chaaha-o man pareet charan kamlaaray.

I do not seek power, and I do not seek liberation. My mind is in love with Your Lotus Feet.

bRhm mhys isD muin ieMdRw moih Twkur hI drswry ]1] (534-4, dyvgMDwrI mÚ 5)

barahm mahays siDh mun indraa mohi thaakur hee darsaaray. ||1||

Brahma, Shiva, the Siddhas, the silent sages and Indra - I seek only the Blessed Vision of my Lord and Master's Darshan. ||1||

dInu duAwrY AwieE Twkur srin pirE sMq hwry ] (534-5, dyvgMDwrI mÚ 5)

deen du-aarai aa-i-o thaakur saran pari-o sant haaray.

I have come, helpless, to Your Door, O Lord Master; I am exhausted - I seek the Sanctuary of the Saints.

khu nwnk pRB imly mnohr mnu sIql ibgswry ]2]3]29] (534-5, dyvgMDwrI mÚ 5)

kaho naanak parabh milay manohar man seetal bigsaaray. ||2||3||29||

Says Nanak, I have met my Enticing Lord God; my mind is cooled and soothed - it blossoms forth in joy. ||2||3||29||

[Guest _Seeker_]

My confusion is over the term "merging" and the statement that we lose our "individuality". These analogies sound to me like the jiva ceases to exist as an individual eternal soul (spark of God).

I thought God wanted a relationship with us. For there to be a relationship, there must be 2 even if we are One in Essence. When we get married we become One, but we also are a "couple" (two), so Oneness does not negate individuality or "relation-ship." in this case.

When Sri Krishna comes and dances with the Gopis, it is said this is the loving interaction between the jiva (individual soul) and the Paramatma (Supreme Self). If we cease to exist as an individuals, how can there be this loving interaction?

Please show me where I am misunderstanding. I thank you very much for addressing my questions.

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

i think you are trying to make your belief and the sikh belief, be the same, when they are not. In your belief the concept of "merging" does not exist, whereas in sikhi it does. Your not trying to understand, your trying to fit the sikh belief into your current belief.

peace.

[rimmel]

.

[japmans]

those who merge usually hold the answer to that question... and truth be told, we'd be very lucky to find someone on this forum who's part of that big ocean

[Guest T.O.Singh]

Taken from Tapoban.org

http://www.tapoban.org/phorum/read.php?f=1...00#reply_32960; also refer to

http://www.tapoban.org/phorum/read.php?f=1...270&t=30270

Translated from page 71-72 or Sach Khand Darshan by Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee:

Bhagat Ravidaas jee in love (Shabad: Beghampura Shehar ko nayo on ang 345 of Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee) gives Sach Khand the name of Beghumpura i.e. the place where there is no sorrow (Be-Gham-pura) because in Beghampura there is no sorrow, worry, anxiety and nor is there any tax as in this mortal world. There is no worldly riches and wealth there. There is no fear of sin and nor there is regression and degeneration of mind there.

Bhagat jee is saying that they have attained a very great dwelling-place where there is always happiness. Governments or kings in this land don’t change like worldly governments and kings. Kingdom of Vaheguru always stays eternal. This city of Beghampura is very densely populated and very prosperous too. Since Beghampura is the place where Vaheguru resides (in his pure form) this dwelling is just as famous as Vaheguru himself. In this city, Bhagats loaded with the wealth of Naam and accepted by Vaheguru reside and they are fully knowledgeable of the secrets of the palace of Vaheguru. They can enjoy the bliss of this palace as they please i.e. there is no stopping to them. If they will, they can come back to this world (Earth) at their will as per the Gurbani hukam “Gurmukh aaye jaaye nisungâ€. In this dwelling of Sach Khand one realises what real freedom is. Bhagat jee declares that only those ones who reside in Sach Khand are his friends. Only their friendship can last in the mortal world and the Sach Khand world.

*********Translation over**********

Above Bhai Sahib jee has clearly stated that Bhagats are very much alive and not decimated in Sach Khand. They are not only alive but at will they can come to this world or go anywhere they want. There is total freedom to them. They can go anywhere unhindered.

If we read the article, “Akal Purakh dee Dargaah†in Andithee Duniya, we get clear understanding that Bhagats do in fact reside in the next world and they don’t lose their identity. I will herein give few quotations from Bhai Sahib’s books to prove this point:

Andithee Duniya quotations are from Edition 6, 1990.

1) Page 96 of Andithee Duniya:

In the dargaah of Vaheguru (Har Dargaah andar), reside millions and billions of servants or bhagats of Vaheguru, who reside with Vaheguru in such manner that they don’t lose sight of him even for one moment. This unseen and unreachable (for mortal beings) world exists totally away from the sight of the worldly people of this world (our world – Earth). This world of Nirankaar or Vaheguru is much more densely and prosperously populated than the mortal world. Exact Punjabi quote is: Ih duniya (Sach Khand) aisee hee ghugg vasdee hai jaise ke drishtmaan duniya (physical world i.e. mortal world); sagon uh vadere ghugg vasdee hai.

Yatha Gurvaak (refer to the Gurbani Hukam below).

KOT MEHAL JA KAE DARBARE ||

NIMAKH NIMAKH VASAI TIN NAALAY ||

2) Page 96 of Andithee Duniya

SOOKH MEHAL JA KE OOCH DUYAARAY ||

TAA MEH VAASEH BHAGAT PYAARAY || (Ang 739)

Billions and Billions of khoohaniyaan i.e. regiments of Bhagats reside in the eternal and true Sachkhandee Darbaar of Vaheguru. By the kirpa of Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee Maharaaj ones who have collected the true wealth of Naam took this wealth with them to Sach Khand.

Khoohani means a regiment that contains x number of soldiers, infantry, elephants, horses etc. Bhai Sahib used the world khoohani to describe the colonies of Bhagats there.

3) Page 88 of Andithee Duniya

The existence of the dargaah (darbaar) of Vaheguru is such a notion that a gursikh must have faith in and it is pure Gurmat to do so. According to Gurmat there is Nirankaar’s Khand i.e. Sach Khand and there is the Darbaar of Vaheguru too. Yathaa Gurvaak:

NIRANKAAR KAI DESH JAAHE, TAAN SUKH LAHEH MAHAL ||

The happiness-giving palace and the land of Vaheguru Nirankaar is surely there in the next world. O Gursikho, believe this truth without any doubt.

There are many more examples I can give from Bhai Sahib’s books that will prove beyond doubt that the Bhagats don’t die in the next world or don't cease to exist; and not only do they exist but they stay in full bliss. The bhagats have full freedom and at their will can come to this mortal world of ours as well. "Gurmukh aaye jaaye nisung" is the pankiti that Bhai Sahib has quoted to prove this.

I personally was having hard time swallowing some of the assertions by my veers and bhains that stated that Singhs like Baba Deep Singh jee and Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee had decimated into Vaheguru. Verily, they are still alive and at their will can come to this world.

Bhai Sahib also writes that since there is no maaiya in Sach Khand, Bhagats don’t have to do any effort to do bhagtee there because their surtee just does not go out of Naam and Sifat Salaah. What a great world this is. Oh! May we become citizens of this world.