sidh goshat

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

Ah...so now I found out some info on the seminar that took place (sorry for naming the Gurudwara... ). I actually know the person who was probably presenting that viewpoint. Funny thing, if they had not found someone to present their topic for the day, I would have been it to present a speech on some material related to Sikhism. Tell me, was it a presentation on Kirtan or Sangat initially, or was it on sewa?

I had a LONG discussion (45 minutes to 1 hour) on this topic with the organizer of the event (whom I know pretty well). He is a very Chardi Kala Sikh whose view on the matter is different than mine (and I guess others here too). His angle is that the Guru Sahiban never did any miracles or karaamaats so all of that stuff is not correct, as Sikhism is a very practical religion. The counter-point to this viewpoint which was brought up was Abu-Ul-Turani in his account of Bisakhi 1699 and even Gurbani which states that Amrit has the power to animate the dead...which is exactly what Abu-Ul-Turani states. Questions on Baba Deep Singh lifting his head to continue on fighting is also questioned.

What are we to do with Bhai Gurdas Sahib's Vaaran, which detail how Guru Nanak Sahib took Pir Dastagir's son on a trip to the Universe? What are we to do with accounts of people like Bhai Sahib Bhai Randheer Singh, whose biography states that when he meditated upon the Almighty, he began to levitate? What are we to do with Sant Attar Singh Sahib, who lived on sand and water?

A difference o

f opinion...may Guru Sahib lead all of us to the truth. HOWEVER, if this organization plans to hold another seminar, please tell me. I'll be there. We will have some discussions and make a rukus... :e: . And don't be intimidated by raising your voice in opposition against the views presented. Just be ready to defend it.

[Guest SikhForLife]

veeerji i attended today's lectures.. they didnt talk abuot sidh goshat today.. since a lot of the kids really dont know what its abuot..

but i had a discussion with the [Edited] [those people] and they kept saying how sikhi doesnt belive in miracles.. that panja sahib is fake.. and the sarovar has no power..

they said Guruji would never contradict himself.. first do miracles and then denounce the use of miracles..

then they said Guru granth shuold be our Guru and not sakhiiis (which i agree with)

.. they said it doesnt say anywhere in sggs about miracles.. and theres no such power.. sikhi is practical.. and if these powers exist how come we dont have em etc etc etc.

and the major thing is that they are influencing the kids.. cuz they control the khalsa school.. and top of that.. they teach those kids to go against akal thakat and the SGPC

..

its a growing problem here at the GW.. just last sunday they almost had physical fights when one of [those ppl] did katha.. and said obsene things.. some ladies got up and told the guy to not say those things.. and the secretary made them sit down.. head granthi jee got up and told the secretary to stop.. and told the [those ppl] to stop this.. then our secretary started talking about head granthi sahab..

o brother.. our GW used to be soo good.. now all this

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

Hmmm...this a weekly thing? Cause if it is, it might not be the person I thought it was...

When will the next one be?

[moorakh mugadh]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

yes gurujee was against miracle showing ,but saying miracles are not there its WRONG .they say why we dont have miracles tell them do bhagti itll come but when itll come ull think its just maya ur avastha will be like that, so miracles do there but using them to showoff is game over in bhagti and having and staying in hukam is SACHKHAND

guru sahib did this miracles but very less oh he kisinu sabak te ya taarne vaste not to show off.

u all know im moorkah mugadh a FOOL MY 0 PERCENT

[Sher Khalsa]

About the Baba Deep Singh sakhi, someone told me that it IS POSSIBLE. This is because our soul can live without our body so when Baba Deep Singhs head was cut off he had so much power inside him from all the BANI and paat he had done and the ardas he did, that he was able to still control his body with his soul even thoh his body should have been dead... Baba Deep Singh Ji had reached such a state of spiritualness that he was able to do what is so unthinkable to us nowadays.

I dont know if im sayin this right, but hope it helps

Forgive me if im wrong

:e:

[Singh Khalsa]

There's only one reason Kala Afghana supporters along with people who think like Kala Afghana have for their positions:

A lack of faith.

And their obsessive desire to spread their lack of faith across the panth was the reason why Kala Afghana was excommunicated.

I don't mean to sound arrogant,

But these people at your GW who are against the possibility of miracles know little or nothing about spirituality.

Kala Afghana has large bases of support on the east coast United States.

Beware SikhForLife.

These people doubt the power of Naam Simran, they doubt the logic that Gurbaanee when read repeatedly can cleanse our sins.

Basically I really don't know what they see as "Gurmat"

They don't really believe in Gurbaanee and Naam,

They lack any real spiritual structure in their lives.

Ask them how many of them get up at Amrit Vela?

Not one.

Do you know why? Because they made up some new theories about how Amrit Vela isn't really Amrit Vela.

And who agrees with them?

Sikhs who consider themselves to be "scholarly"

No traditional, true Gursikhs agree with these Kala Afghana views.

Not one.

Go back into this past century,

Take a look at all the prominent Gursikhs,

Taksali Sants, Nanaksariya Sants, AKJ Gursikhs,

They all had utmost faith in Naam and Baanee,

They all believed in these miracles.

Who's right?

The people who experienced god and went to Sachkhand?

Orrr.......

These people?

[Shinda]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

I really do not, know much about the event, but intelects such as those who presented plague, Sikhi.

sqgur kI syvw gwKVI isru dIjY Awpu gvwie ]

The same group claim Guru Sahib to be a liar, because Guru Sahib in their opinion cut goats and not the heads of the beloved five. In their opinion it would be impossible to cut of an individuals head and replace it onto another body.

gurmuiK roim roim hir iDAwvY ]

The same intelects would find it difficult to believe that Gursikh Jeevans such as those of Bhai Mati Daas Ji who even when being cut in half continued the recitation of Sri Jap Ji Sahib. Who's every cell was doing Jaap and singing praises of the all mighty Akaal Purkh.

hir nwmu hmwrw Bojnu CqIh prkwr ijqu KwieAY hm kau iqRpiq BeI ]

They would find it next to impossible to believe in recent Gursikhs such as Sant Baba Harnaam Singh Ji, or Sant Baba Nand Singh Ji, who would spend countless days without food or drink, who’s hungers and thirsts where all quenched by Guru Di Bani.

Such individuals can never be taken seriously, bani ta pardayy nei tey sulaa d

en dey ren day eh.

sMqn kI mihmw kvn vKwnau ] AgwiD boiD ikCu imiq nhI jwnau ]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[Jyot]

qY swihb kI bwq ij AwKY khu nwnk ikAw dIjY ]

thai saahib kee baath j aakhai kahu naanak kiaa dheejai ||

One who brings me a message from my Lord and Master - says Nanak, what shall I give to Him?

sIsu vFy kir bYsxu dIjY ivxu isr syv krIjY ]

sees vadtae kar baisan dheejai vin sir saev kareejai ||

Cutting off my head, I give it to Him to sit upon;

without my head, I shall still serve Him.

-- (Siri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Raag Vadhans, Ang 558 )

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

And there it is...Thanks HarJaap Ji!!!!!!!!!!!!