Inder Ghagga Loses Debates To Panthic Singhs In Toronto

[sher-e-panjab]

Watch Debate Video Here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=17042058814450061

[International Akaali]

OK where do we start... hmm ok lets start from the article by panthic weekly i will go down the points which are stated in the articles which are total lies...

" Inder Ghagga loses debates to Panthic Singhs in Toronto "

Wow its pretty sad to say that these so called panthic singhs determine of who is a singh of the guru and who isnt! The Singh in Inder Singh Ghagga has either been mistakingly forgotten or it might be an error? Or perhaps these so called panthic singhs just didnt intend to put singh in his name so they are the ones who determine who is a singh and who isnt. Prof has taken khaday battai tha amrit as far as i know one who has becomes a singh... just would like to point out a few things

" Instead of utilizing sound logic and Gurbani as a basis of their arguments they often resort the ridicule and sarcasm in a sign of desperation and lack of confidence."

this is quite interesting because if you listen to his audios or read his book when he ever he writes on the basis of what is written in guru granth sahib ji... maybe that isnt considered gurbani to "panthic singhs" ... listen to the video he presents puts forward by gurbani on veechar with one another...

"When he spoke at Mayfield Gurdwara Sahib, in Brampton Ontario two weeks ago, a melee broke our between his supporters and members of Panthic organizations who charged that he was spreading anti-Sikh propaganda and was insulting respected Sikh personalities in his books and on stage. Ghagga in his book "Sada Berra Kio Garkia", he has harshly criticizes various Gursikhs and key Sikhi concepts."

may i please ask who are these so called poanthic orginizations??? are these the same panthic orginizations who consider tra charitars as bani or dont accept sikh reyat maryada??? and who are these so called respected personalities who follow hindu maat and are students of pandits, nirmalais... and first studied vedas, ramyan and other hindu granths before even starting to read guru granth sahib ji as stated in there book!"

"That there is no such thing as the power of Naam.

Naam simran that involves reciting of Gurmantar (as instructed in the Panthic Sikh Rahit Maryada) is Pakhand [hypocritical], he refers to is ‘Gorakh Dhandha.’"

There is two different types of naam which are debated by prof inder singh and kulbir singh.... Bhai kulbir singh says naam is waheguru jaap only... while prof says naam is gurbani itself..... There is two different sides as to what the power of naam is... Bhai Kulbir singh says by doing waheguru jaap you can do certain chamitkaars so on... he also says that totta raatan of the same word being repeated is not acceptable... now i would like to say is how much time would be considered totta rattan? 15 min,m 30 min, hour, 2 hour, 3 hour.... that is a question for him to answer... also in sikh reyat maryada it says to do waheguru jaap in the morning before nitnem... now it doesnt say how much time it just says do waheguru jaap... i would like to add that akal purkh says to remember him forever and always... doing waheguru the jaap is just a way to get you started for doing nitnem to remember akal purkh... we should akal purkh on are minds always... As for the Gorakh Dhanda as the title that in the next edition he will remove that.... He said everyones makes mistakes when they write he will correct that in the next edition of his book....

"Guru Nanak Sahib Ji ate Halal meat under pressure, when he visited Mecca."

This is a topic that gets a lot of people heated... My personal belief is that whatever he ate we dont know... i would like to say that what did guru hargobind sahib do... when you hear of "dhadis" say guru sahib went in the forest and played shakaar... what does that mean? that means he went and killed animals and ate them... he didnt just go there and kill them for fun... if we hear of other guru sahibs eating maas why does it hurt so much that guru nanak sahib ate maas they are all one jot...

"Siri Guru Arjun Dev Ji fainted when he was tortured because he could not withstand the pain. In other words, he views all of the ten Guru Sahibs as ordinary humans beings."

Guru sahib is shabad Guru... Guru sahib was a person in a human body... The thing that is so special about the guru is the shabad in which he says... That is why we are all his kids because we are learning from guru sahib and his shabad.... at this day we have the shabad with us in shri guru granth sahib ji.... I dont understand why it is so difficult for people to understand that guru sahib fainted... If guru sahib didnt faint then can someone tell me how he became shaheed? HOW DID GURU ARJUN SAHIB BECOME SHAHEED IF HE DIDNT FAINT! secondly people who say guru sahib was not in a regular human body.. Yes he did feel pain.. but the pain didnt effect him one bit because hwas one with god and he knew the time came... It was his mind that felt no pain.. Guru harkrishan sahib attained guruship for about 5 years... and his joti jot came at when he was just at the age of 7... guru harkrishan became ill and passed away... and the guru ship went to guru tegh bahadhur sahib... now if we say guru sahib was in a regular body how come guru harkrishan sahib left this world at the tender age of 7... could guru sahib not stop his illness??? he was guru we hear of people doing akhand paats and sukhmani sahib thai paat and we hear of cancer getting cured by akhand paat... but yet guru sahib couldnt not get cured himself... this is just a bhakhand which people have put in us... Guru sahibs shabad is mahan..

"He wrote very harshly against Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Bhindranwalay and other respected Panthic personalities, often ridiculing them in a offensive manner. "

This is a tottly different subject we will make an another thread and discuss... this topic was not even debated on.. everyone became panthic no taksali could be found! no one wanted to discuss the issue..

"He is a also a ferocious supporter of meat eating."

This so called panthic weekly website promoted sikh reyat maryada half the time and doesnt promote it the other half... they put in brackets (sikh reyat maryada) beside the waheguru jaap complaint but forgot to put sikh reyat maryada in the the meat eating issue... panthic weekly= hypocrites

"According to witnesses present there, "He came with about 10-15 of his supporters. The Singhs went in the debate as underdogs and he was full of haumai. Within minutes [of debating], he realized that he was stuck."

The meeting at tapoban prof came with 10-15 people???? thats ridiculas.....it was 5 or 6 people i dont know where the number of 10-15 came from i think it was quite the oppisite... either the witness was blind or panthic weekly is just telling a lie to boost there article.. within minutes of debating he relized he was stuck? i dont understand how he was stuck... those guys said he didnt faint while prof said guru sahib had to have fainted with the explonation above... what kind of debate is that.. how was he stuck i dont understand...

"According to several eyewitnesses interviewed by Panthic Weekly, Ghagga became so uneasy that he asked for drinking water three times. Witnesses stated that his hands were trembling and he was perspiring heavily throughout the debate. It was clear that the fierce 'debater' Ghagga had lost his bearing"

He asked for drinking water three times??? how old is he 70-80 years old what does having a drink of water have anything to do with a debate... his hands were probably trembling because one fo the guys had a gandasa in his hand and two karas which were 2 kilos each hahahahahaha... shameful...

"Ghagga lost the entire debate on all subjects and now the some neutral Singhs insisted that another debate be set at a public venue. The date was set for October 1, 2006 at 9am, but Ghagga never showed up. Via third parties, and with great difficulty, he was persuaded to debate and finally the debate was set up for about 4 hours later at 1pm. "

Who pulled the outcome of the debate the "panthic singhs" or "panthic weekly" hahahahaha... the next debate was set for 9 am... how many people do you need to debate at most 4-6 from each side... at 9 oclock 100 people were standing outside to doorstep reading to debate hahaha... until everyone was gona and the people who were supposed to debate were left then the debate happened... and still there were peopleleft over there were supposed to be 4-5 from prof inder singhs sid ena d4-5 of other... prof inder singh brang 4-5 and kulbir singh had 14-17....

"It is interesting to note that the Panthic Singhs led by Kulbir Singh did not have any prior public debating experience, yet they were successful in defeating someone such as Ghagga who has spent his entire life in such controversies. Instead of debating on the contentious issues, Ghagga kept digressing and changing subject. This further proved that he could no longer defend himself or his philosophy. "

We will see when the video comes on the internet these guys are making the decision already shows you what news reporting skills they have...

"Most importantly, Ghagga publicly accepted that Naam Simran is a principal of Gurmat. He accepted that his sakhi about Guru Nanak Dev Ji eating meat in Mecca was his imagination as was Guru Arjun Dev Ji’s fainting incident. "

As for the naam simran he said whatever is present in akal takht maryada he accepts... As for the other two subjects he did not accept anything and that is a lie.. we shall see who is telling the truth when the movie comes out... Bhai Kulbir Singh accepted that Kavi Santhok Singh writeer of suraj parkash and raatan singh bhanguu writer of panth parkash are both wrong in the sakhis they have wrote to make guru sahib look bad? now what mission will these "panthic singh start against him?" What base is history written? everyone talks about base of prof.... Whatever is the philosphy of gurmat and makes sense according to gurmat is the only base !!!!!!! Guru granth sahib is our base!!!

Isnt lying against the principals of sikhi??? how much can you lie it unbelieveable...... this article should be on lie.com

[akjforever]

The Singhs involved did an amazing job. The cool thing was that the Singh who was proving ghagga wrong was so cool, ghaaga was left quiet.

Great job Guru Kay Singho!!!

[akjforever]

Where is the rest of the video?

[The Khalsa Fauj]

I understand what Kulbir Singh is saying!

Ghugga has agreed to make the changes in future so that is great news too. The debate was handled very good. Neither side got into thug style activities. Good stuff.

I also have to say that Panthic weekly put too much spice on the issue.

[Bijla Singh]

and first studied vedas, ramyan and other hindu granths before even starting to read guru granth sahib ji as stated in there book!"

There is nothing wrong with studying other religious books. Please provide any reference from Gurbani that proves me wrong.

i would like to say that what did guru hargobind sahib do... when you hear of "dhadis" say guru sahib went in the forest and played shakaar... what does that mean? that means he went and killed animals and ate them... he didnt just go there and kill them for fun... if we hear of other guru sahibs eating maas why does it hurt so much that guru nanak sahib ate maas they are all one jot...

This is only your personal belief and has no basis from Gurbani. As Bhai Kulbir Singh said: two wrongs don’t make it right. Just because dhadhis say it doesn’t make it right. As Sikhs we must evaluate every sakhi on the basis of Gurbani. Guru Sahib did not hunt just any animal. Only those were hunted who Guru Sahib wanted to bless with Muktee. One example is, the snake who was blessed. It was the same snake who used to be a dehdhari guru. Surely, Guru Sahib wouldn’t have eaten the snake afterwards. Guru Gobind Singh Ji hunted a rabbit who turned his back on Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Then Guru Sahib became Joti Jot. Historical books explain the events that took place afterwards i.e. passing Guruship to Guru Granth Sahib Ji. No historic book say that Guru Sahib ate the rabbit. Every animal that was hunted had some link with Guru Sahib and it was their time to get muktee.

I dont understand why it is so difficult for people to understand that guru sahib fainted... If guru sahib didnt faint then can someone tell me how he became shaheed?

Faint doesn’t mean to become Shaheed. If Guru Sahib fainted on the hot iron plate then was he carried to river by Gursikhs and then thrown into it? Just think about it. Defend Ghugga on some rational arguments not by insulting Guru Sahib. Bhai Taru Singh Ji’s scalp was cut off yet he stayed alive for 20 days. Bhai Mati Das Ji was cut into half yet sound of JapJi Sahib was heard from the two pieces. Bhai Anokh Singh Babbar’s eyes were taken out, tongue was cut off, every joint in the body was broken yet he did not faint. Three gursikhs were tied to a tree and wolves were let free to eat Sikhs by taking bite after bite. Sound of “Waheguru” was heard by everyone until they passed away. Yet no one fainted. Guru Sahib-giver of life, who controls death, could never have fainted. If he fainted then you are implying that He could no longer bear the pain of torture which is false because if His Sikhs can undergo so much pain and never faint then it was not a problem for Guru Sahib either. Ghugga has admitted that these statements are his own assumptions, not backed by any source.

Yes he did feel pain

Those who say “Tera Keeya Meetha Laagay” never feel any pain. Gurbani considers “Jatthar Aag” to be the greatest of all pains which is staying in a womb for nine months. Try to study the true character of Guru Sahib and only then you will understand that One who runs this entire creation is not susceptible to any worldly pain.

could guru sahib not stop his illness???

He could but Guru Sahib tells us in His bani that nothing is permanent. It was not like He was dying. He changed His body because the time was coming to save a religion that w s on the edge of annihilation.

he was guru we hear of people doing akhand paats and sukhmani sahib thai paat and we hear of cancer getting cured by akhand paat... but yet guru sahib couldnt not get cured himself... this is just a bhakhand which people have put in us... Guru sahibs shabad is mahan..

This shows how low of an opinion one can have of His Guru just to defend a human being. Vasu Bharadwaj is just one example (his video is available online and so is his contact. Ask him for his illness reports) who was cured by Gurbani. Another police officer from Maharashtra was cured from blindness. A Radha Soami family had leprosy and was cured the day after they took Amrit. These miracles happen so people like us can learn something and never forget our Guru Sahib. Panthic Weekly has no right to question if Ghugga is a Sikh but you have the right to ask why Guru Sahib did not do such and such? What was the dire need of Guru Sahib to “cure” himself? What benefit could that have brought? He never fell in love with physical body or any materialistic things. Only us humans do that.

his hands were probably trembling because one fo the guys had a gandasa in his hand and two karas which were 2 kilos each hahahahahaha... shameful...

These insulting comments of yours about Guru Sahib’s Kakkars show what kind of a Sikh you are. A true Sikh would never even think about insulting Kakkars.

As for the naam simran he said whatever is present in akal takht maryada he accepts...

Did he ask you to represent him? Everyone can watch the video and make their own decisions. He doesn’t even accept his own school’s teachings. It is not about what he believes but about insulting comments you have written just to defend one human being.

Bhai Kulbir Singh accepted that Kavi Santhok Singh writeer of suraj parkash and raatan singh bhanguu writer of panth parkash are both wrong in the sakhis they have wrote to make guru sahib look bad?

He rejected one particular sakhi not all of them. Gur Partap was written off of five old granths such as Prem Sumarag and GurSobha. Like I said, every sakhi must be evaluated on Gurbani basis.

everyone talks about base of prof.... Whatever is the philosphy of gurmat and makes sense according to gurmat is the only base !!!!!!! Guru granth sahib is our base!!!

“our base”? Who is “our”? You and Ghugga? Prof. Ghugga has clearly stated that many statements which were argued were his own assumptions and not based on Gurbani.

At least show some respect for Guru Sahib. You claim to be a Sikh yet don’t understand the true power of your Guru. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Hardeep__singh]

Showed the video clip to my dad, he said that this is "badh mabadh" Would the GHUGGU GHAGGA sit on the the "tatiyah tavyiah" NO, would he sit in boiling water, NO. I think he shud be a muslim, came near me aI would slice his head off complete.

Inform to come here in UK, we will roast him like a chicken and make him embarrassed. Doesnt know anything, I actually heard GHUGGU amd nothing he said was true all baseless, he make me laugh, what a comedian.

Look at the story of Khalsa Bhai Gurdev Singh Debu, he didnt faint! this is the example they should have given this PAKHAND professor.

[Pakandi baba]

Lessons to be learned Khalsa. This is the WAY to debate. If we do it in this manner, then we can make people see the error of their ways. - Gaggu said he based most of his claims on his OWN opinions.

So ''International Akaali'' his remark about 'Guru Arjan Dev was not based on any historical or GURBANI evidence (as YOU claim) but his own opinion. I'm sure you're only on the bandwagon because you recieve royalites from every book sold.

Khalsa ji, it's great to prove the cretins against Sikhi wrong. This is just the beginning though....

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh.

[Hardeep__singh]

Where is part 4?

[International Akaali]

If i offended anyone i apologize... first off like i said before on the guru nanak dev ji issue on meat i dont agree with him on everything... but firstly we talk about gurbani being past science... science is on the ground and gurbasni is way up at the ceiling.....

"There is nothing wrong with studying other religious books. Please provide any reference from Gurbani that proves me wrong."

Yes there is nothign wrong with studying other relgious books but they havent even studied guru granth sahib.. so the hindyu maat is obviously going to creep in.. Baba gurbachan singh is a student of pandits and nirmalais.... After they were done studying hiundu granth they started on farid koot wala teeka which is also made my nirmalais...

"This is only your personal belief and has no basis from Gurbani. As Bhai Kulbir Singh said: two wrongs don’t make it right. Just because dhadhis say it doesn’t make it right. As Sikhs we must evaluate every sakhi on the basis of Gurbani. Guru Sahib did not hunt just any animal. Only those were hunted who Guru Sahib wanted to bless with Muktee. One example is, the snake who was blessed. It was the same snake who used to be a dehdhari guru. Surely, Guru Sahib wouldn’t have eaten the snake afterwards. Guru Gobind Singh Ji hunted a rabbit who turned his back on Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Then Guru Sahib became Joti Jot. Historical books explain the events that took place afterwards i.e. passing Guruship to Guru Granth Sahib Ji. No historic book say that Guru Sahib ate the rabbit. Every animal that was hunted had some link with Guru Sahib and it was their time to get muktee. "

bilja singh you say two wrongs dont make a right... so what basis is history on???? now should we find the basis every history point? people are believeing whatever is being said may it be true or may it be false... what is basis? secondly where does it say when guru hargobind sahib play shakar he gave mukhtee??? this is your asumption as well??? we talk about people making up there own opionions when it comes down to themselves they forget about theres... there is nothing wrong with opionions as long as they fit the philosphy of guru granth sahib.... What basis do you haver about the snake sakhi oir the rabbit sakhi... that is a just a load of lies... guru sahib was sent on thisearth to deliuever the messege of akal purkh.. go around to places and give there messege not go and punish rabits and snakes for doing bad things to guru shaib.. What basis did you write this sakhi on please explain in more detail?

"Faint doesn’t mean to become Shaheed. If Guru Sahib fainted on the hot iron plate then was he carried to river by Gursikhs and then thrown into it? Just think about it. Defend Ghugga on some rational arguments not by insulting Guru Sahib. Bhai Taru Singh Ji’s scalp was cut off yet he stayed alive for 20 days. Bhai Mati Das Ji was cut into half yet sound of JapJi Sahib was heard from the two pieces. Bhai Anokh Singh Babbar’s eyes were taken out, tongue was cut off, every joint in the body was broken yet he did not faint. Three gursikhs were tied to a tree and wolves were let free to eat Sikhs by taking bite after bite. Sound of “Waheguru” was heard by everyone until they passed away. Yet no one fainted. Guru Sahib-giver of life, who controls death, could never have fainted. If he fainted then you are implying that He could no longer bear the pain of torture which is false because if His Sikhs can undergo so much pain and never faint then it was not a problem for Guru Sahib either. Ghugga has admitted that these statements are his own assumptions, not backed by any source. "

there is no doubt guru sahib was great.. he was no ordinary person.. he could withstand more pain the the average person beccause he was one with god... that is why gursikhs like bhai mani singh, bhai mati das bhai sati das and other great gursikhs attained shaheedi because they are one with god... We talk about guru arjun sahib giving shaheedi... can you tell me at one point did he become shaheed??? 1-10 days later.. 20-days.. as far as my understanding goes he attained shaheedi right after when he was placed on tatti tavee... i may be wrong please correct me if i am... so now how does one attain shaheedi? either guru sahib had fainted or i dont know what happened please tell me... ok singh you knwo more then me... what happened to guru sahibs body... what did they do to it after he joti jot??? where were his last minutes and how did he become shaheed??

"This shows how low of an opinion one can have of His Guru just to defend a human being. Vasu Bharadwaj is just one example (his video is available online and so is his contact. Ask him for his illness reports) who was cured by Gurbani. Another police officer from Maharashtra was cured from blindness. A Radha Soami family had leprosy and was cured the day after they took Amrit. These miracles happen so people like us can learn something and never forget our Guru Sahib. Panthic Weekly has no right to question if Ghugga is a Sikh but you have the right to ask why Guru Sahib did not do such and such? What was the dire need of Guru Sahib to “cure” himself? What benefit could that have brought? He never fell in love with physical body or any materialistic things. Only us humans do that."

i would like to say one thing... We call guru granth sahib ji shabad guru... When guru sahib talks about illneses he talks about the ilness of kaam khroad loh moh hankar... We hear of so many akhand paats around the world happening and sukhamani sahib thai paat to stop illneses such as cancer... Imagine how many akhand paats happen in the world today... almost 100,000 or more happen daily.... shouldnt illneses such as cancer leprosy bird flu all dissapear... can you tell how many akhand paats do we need to do to stop all theses desises im sure the united states and England and various other countries will do something so they can find a cure for cancer.. they will have a million akhand paats done if it can all cure cancers... someone should givbe the president a shout out...I am kind of surprised only non sikhs are on those lists? shouldnt there be millions of people being cured because of how many akhand paats per year... this is the bhakhand and joke we have made of gurbani... When guru sahib made shabad he made it so we can live a gursikhi jeevan and make a jeevan which will better are life and make us one toward god...

"These insulting comments of yours about Guru Sahib’s Kakkars show what kind of a Sikh you are. A true Sikh would never even think about insulting Kakkars."

I didnt intend on insulting anything i had never seen karas that big ever in my life.. and is gandasa a new kakar that tapoban made up?

"Did he ask you to represent him? Everyone can watch the video and make their own decisions. He doesn’t even accept his own school’s teachings. It is not about what he believes but about insulting comments you have written just to defend one human being."

i wrote that comment before the video was up i didnt see the video up and i was posting my thread..

You talk about basis people like yourself say akal takht reyat maryada isnt panthic maryada... who is against the panth now and who isnt.. why use sikh reyat maryada when you like to use it... why not use it on the meat issue as well...

I am no way trying to say everything ghagga says is right.. Everyone makes mistakes...

Hardeep singh you need anger managment classes... if you wanna slice someones head off go slice KPS gill or Bhinraywala.. you people talk all the <admin-profanity filter activated> behind your computer screen about im gonna do this im gonna do that. Get out of your outhouse and do somethign if you are claiming to slice of profs head...

"So ''International Akaali'' his remark about 'Guru Arjan Dev was not based on any historical or GURBANI evidence (as YOU claim) but his own opinion. I'm sure you're only on the bandwagon because you recieve royalites from every book sold. "

no sorry i dont recieve any commsion for every book sold...