Inder Ghagga Loses Debates To Panthic Singhs In Toronto

[(S Singh)]

This video is just 16 minutes of the entire debate. The total debate lasted 2 ½ to 3 hours. I think that the debate was a very Gurmat oriented debate and can set a precedent for future debates. If our community can have such intellectual debates, there would be no need for physical fights in Gurdwaras.

I attended the last half hour of the second debate. It felt great just being there in the company of such intellectuals. The reason why there was no video recording of the first debate was because Ghagha Sahibs party refused to allow any recording. But they agreed to have the second debate recorded.

The meeting at tapoban prof came with 10-15 people???? thats ridiculas.....it was 5 or 6 people i dont know where the number of 10-15 came from i think it was quite the oppisite... either the witness was blind or panthic weekly is just telling a lie to boost there article.. within minutes of debating he relized he was stuck? i dont understand how he was stuck... those guys said he didnt faint while prof said guru sahib had to have fainted with the explonation above... what kind of debate is that.. how was he stuck i dont understand...

At the tapoban meeting many people came with Ghagha Sahib. Maybe they were not all part of Ghagha Sahib's group, but just neutral people who just arrived there to watch the debate. In any case, Ghagha Shahib was not mistreated by anyone at Tapoban sahib. \

He asked for drinking water three times??? how old is he 70-80 years old what does having a drink of water have anything to do with a debate... his hands were probably trembling because one fo the guys had a gandasa in his hand and two karas which were 2 kilos each hahahahahaha... shameful...

I wont name names, but it seems that certain people from Ghagha Sahib's group have a problem with Singhs wearing Shastars. By making fun of these Shastars, and resorting to sarcastic remarks like dho phutay gandasay, dho dho kilo dhay kaRay, you are just showing your frustration because Ghagha Sahib could not win in a debate as he usually does, so certain people out of frustration have resorted to making fun of the appearances of people from the opposing side. This is childish behaviour, which I think is even giving Ghagha Sahib a bad name.

Who pulled the outcome of the debate the "panthic singhs" or "panthic weekly" hahahahaha... the next debate was set for 9 am... how many people do you need to debate at most 4-6 from each side... at 9 oclock 100 people were standing outside to doorstep reading to debate hahaha... until everyone was gona and the people who were supposed to debate were left then the debate happened... and still there were peopleleft over there were supposed to be 4-5 from prof inder singhs sid ena d4-5 of other... prof inder singh brang 4-5 and kulbir singh had 14-17....”

Ghagha Sahibs party changed the meeting place atleast 4 times because did were trying to avoid debating. Singhs waited 9 am as that was the time set for the debate. But Ghagha Jees party did not show up or even have the courtesy to phone. Finally when the Singhs phoned, after waiting for 2 hours, Ghagha Jees group was making all sorts of excuses for not debating. Then Kulbir Singh Jee and Ghagha Sahib talked directly with each other on the phone without any of the middle men, and both agreed to meet at a nearby neutral singhs house.

And your claim that 100 people arrived is such an over exaggeration. Barely 10 extra people arrived and not one person laid a finger on Ghagha Sahib or any of his men.

There is two different types of naam which are debated by prof inder singh and kulbir singh.... Bhai kulbir singh says naam is waheguru jaap only... while prof says naam is gurbani itself..... There is two different sides as to what the power of naam is... Bhai Kulbir singh says by doing waheguru jaap you can do certain chamitkaars so on... he also says that totta raatan of the same word being repeated is not acceptable... now i would like to say is how much time would be considered totta rattan?

Ghagha Sahib claims that simply living a good life is Naam. He derogatorily saying that people who naam Jap as doing "Ghorakh Danda". Furthermore, he even says that Sikhs doing banis every day is no different from brahmans doing their Jantar mantar. This is insulting. This is against Akal Takht Maryadha which tells us to naam jap and to do nitnemi banis every day. Now this would be considered Ghorakh Danda and Totta Rattna to Ghagha Jee.

International Akali, were you their at the second debate? if you were then we must have met each other.

[Bored]

part 2

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=17042058814450061

part 3

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1198512483395154748

[International Akaali]

S Singh thank you for your reply

"At the tapoban meeting many people came with Ghagha Sahib. Maybe they were not all part of Ghagha Sahib's group, but just neutral people who just arrived there to watch the debate. In any case, Ghagha Shahib was not mistreated by anyone at Tapoban sahib. "

I tottally agree no one was miss treated it was a great atmosphere. Kulbir singh and Prof Inder singh where the only two to speak. Mainly.

"Ghagha Sahibs party changed the meeting place atleast 4 times because did were trying to avoid debating. Singhs waited 9 am as that was the time set for the debate. But Ghagha Jees party did not show up or even have the courtesy to phone. Finally when the Singhs phoned, after waiting for 2 hours, Ghagha Jees group was making all sorts of excuses for not debating. Then Kulbir Singh Jee and Ghagha Sahib talked directly with each other on the phone without any of the middle men, and both agreed to meet at a nearby neutral singhs house.

And your claim that 100 people arrived is such an over exaggeration. Barely 10 extra people arrived and not one person laid a finger on Ghagha Sahib or any of his men."

The meeting place was set for 9 am... Then Ghagga sahib got a call and said theyre were approx 100 people at 9 am.. so prof went to somebodys house and waited when it quieted down so the people who are debateing can debate what are 100 people gonna do? This place changed 3 times... on Saturday night the meeting was set for the singhs house which the meeting was at... and then in the morning the meeting changed to someone elses house... and then the meeting changed again to the same persons house where the meeting was supposed to happen... Prof Inder singh wanted to know where the meeting was held and we should know the person... so it ended up in the same place where it was supposed to happen.

i am not talkin about 100 people during the debate i am talking about the setting at 9 am...

"Ghagha Sahib claims that simply living a good life is Naam. He derogatorily saying that people who naam Jap as doing "Ghorakh Danda". Furthermore, he even says that Sikhs doing banis every day is no different from brahmans doing their Jantar mantar. This is insulting. This is against Akal Takht Maryadha which tells us to naam jap and to do nitnemi banis every day. Now this would be considered Ghorakh Danda and Totta Rattna to Ghagha Jee.

International Akali, were you their at the second debate? if you were then we must have met each other."

If you listen to him carefully S singh he says that Reading Gurbani , Listening , Understanding it and applying it to your jeevan is naam.... he says two simple words arent naam... Waheguru jap is a way he says to remeber akaal purkh but if one has the desire to read gurbani and study it instead, what is wrong with that i dont understand? If he rather read guru granth sahib instead of repeating two words the entire day i certainly dont see anything wrong with that... Sikhs who do bani everyday and dont understand a word in there and just read it because they are told to then it is totta rattan no difference... there has to be something in guru granth sahib ji which so special... during guru sahibs times look how many sikhs there were.. but now no one is living a gursikhi jeevan and everyone is going towards kaam, khroad, loh, moh hankar... Not saying that i am not trapped in those illneses but trying to read gurbani more and more dunerstand it and try to get away from those vices...

Yes i was at both debates

[akjforever]

Part 5 of discussion:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=29...36&q=ghagga

Part 6 of discussion:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=90...12&q=ghagga

[Manjot_13]

The debate was a very clean one. No brawls like what happeneed at the Mayfield Gurudwara, it was more of a debate to prove Ghugga wrong. I hope he gets what he deserves

:D :D :s :s

[Surajsingh]

International Akaali Ji

I have not read all your points so forgive me but if Bhagat Prahlad Ji can come out from the fire with Almighty's grace then why do you think Guru Ji was not able to resist the pain? If we make an assumptions that he may have fainted due to pain then there could be 1000 of shouda/wouda can be put under our imagination.

1. Guru Sahib asked for forgiveness?

2. Guru Sahib tried to run off when it felt warmed.

3. Guru Sahib shouted because of pain

There could be so many imaginations but is there any evidence or historical writing or eye witness that it really happened? This is the main concept of wrong assertions and imagination S. Inder Singh Ghagga Ji has written which is considered personal opinion without any objective historical evidence.

[harwinder84]

wats up with the title shahib?

[Hardeep__singh]

part 5 and 6 kool, but where is part 4?

[International Akaali]

International Akaali Ji

I have not read all your points so forgive me but if Bhagat Prahlad Ji can come out from the fire with Almighty's grace then why do you think Guru Ji was not able to resist the pain? If we make an assumptions that he may have fainted due to pain then there could be 1000 of shouda/wouda can be put under our imagination.

1. Guru Sahib asked for forgiveness?

2. Guru Sahib tried to run off when it felt warmed.

3. Guru Sahib shouted because of pain

There could be so many imaginations but is there any evidence or historical writing or eye witness that it really happened? This is the main concept of wrong assertions and imagination S. Inder Singh Ghagga Ji has written which is considered personal opinion without any objective historical evidence.

Again like i said before what proof did anyone have? Where did Rattan Singh Bhangu, Santokh Singh get there proof??? Please answer this question? On our stages at this momment people are doing katha of these "ethasic granths" but where did these people get there base.. The truth of the matter is whatever makes sense and whatever fits the philosphy of guru granth sahib ji is the only base we have...

Like i said again how does one get shaheed if they dont faint?

please tell us what happened to guru sahib after he was on tatee tavee.... did the tavee go cold? or is it something else i am not aware of? I sense a like of knowledge on my part then..

these are just 2-3 pages off the entire book who is gonna talk about the 400 points which have been raised???

if no one likes to read here they can at least listen the book is on audio now

Sada Bera Aiyo Garkiya Audio: http://singhsabhacanada.com/audio.php?Topic=14

Fateh

[Bijla Singh]

please tell us what happened to guru sahib after he was on tatee tavee.... did the tavee go cold? or is it something else i am not aware of? I sense a like of knowledge on my part then..

I have already addressed this point. Guru Sahib sat on hot plate, hot sand was poured in his head. Then he was told to sit in hot bowling water. This continued for five days. Do you or Ghagga think Guru Sahib fainted on the first day and then they continued to torture him for four more days? Historical accounts also mention that after five days of torture Guru Sahib went to do ishnann at Ravi and that's where He disappeared (became Shaheed). It is a well known fact that Guru Sahib sent back His Sikhs giving Guruship to Guru Hargobind Sahib and instructed to raise arms. In the torture chamber no Sikh was allowed to see Guru Sahib and have conversation with him. If Guru Sahib fainted during tortures then how did He send the message? What happened to His body? Sooraj Parkash, Prem Sumarag, Gursobha, Gurbilas all point out the same account. Differences are not too significant. I have already given you some examples of Shaheeds who never fainted during torture. Yet you seem to ignore all of this just so you could defend your old scholar. What is the motive behind this? Which makes more sense to you? Guru Sahib could not bear the pain and died or He tolerated everything and left this earth when He wanted? Bhai Taru Singh also stayed alive for 20 days after His tortures. Comparing Guru Sahib to mere humans means that you have not understood who your Guru really is. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh