Inder Ghagga Loses Debates To Panthic Singhs In Toronto

[Surajsingh]

International Akali Ji,

I can assume that you have not read the lines where Shiromani Kavi Santokh Singh Ji clearly mentioned that if Sikh community finds inconsistency or few errors in his work then feel free to correct them and there is no copyright. In this age when we write one short article we want to highlight the fact that we own it and see the humility of Kavi Santokh Singh Ji who wrote this huge granth in his lifetime and still gave all copyrights to Sikh panth.

Also if these historians have made mistakes while compiling their work then what gives Sardar Inder Singh Ghagga a right to make mistakes and try to justify his mistakes by blaming others? Is making mistakes must for scholars of our panth even if they realize it? Also what’s the use of repeating and try to justify Sardar Inder Singh Ghagga when he accepted that it was his own imagination and he has no evidence to support it that Guru ji fainted?

Thanks for sharing that audio book and I will listen to it. I was going to order his book but its good you have it online.

[International Akaali]

First Read then Lets Talk :D

or listen

Bilja Singh you think i havent understood guru sahib and i think you havent... simple as that

I follow guru sahib as shabad guru and his shabad which is so beautiul to me.. you just do worship on the outside but dont see what is true shabad in my view..

Is guru sahib Jesus Christ just like he disappeared?

When guru nanak sahib gave gurghadee to guru angad sahib... guru nanak was still in his body but he bowed to guru angad sahib and said he is guru... He said to sangat dont come to me now i gave my messege but the same shabad of one guru is now comming from guru angad dev jithis proves that guru sahib is just not the body it is the shabad!!!!! He is shabad guru... i dont think we are even passed this stage

i dont have much time right now to post

fateh

[KH4L1$T4N1]

VJKK VJKF

i didnt realy understand the part of the debate about Bhagat Kabeer Ji, could someone explain it please?

thanx

[Bijla Singh]

Jesus never disappeared. According to Christians he stayed on earth for 40 days and then went up in front of everyone. How is this disappearance? According to history, body of Guru Nanak Dev Ji could not be found, body of Guru Harkrishan Ji could not be found and Guru Gobind Singh Ji took blue steed with Him to Sachkhand. All these miracles are probably hard for Ghagga to understand because he looks at everything being materialistic. Shabad is Guru, of course. The Jot that resides in Gurbani also resided in Guru Arjan Dev Ji. The body that had Jot of Nirankar could not withstand pain? Seems very unlikely. Read Dasmesh Chamatkar first and understand which animals were hunted and why. It explains everything. Your posts are not based on any historical evidence just assumptions and opinions. Also read Devi Poojan Partal in which Bhai Veer Singh Ji explains all the puratan granths that existed before Sooraj Parkash that explain Sikh history. I already gave you enough examples from Sikh history refuting your opinions. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all!

We do not realize God through debates.

Explanation of scriptures (Shaastraarth) used to take place in presence of all great masters and kings. The success of Shaastraarth depends on the personal growth and consciousness of each participant. True Shaastraarths are of different dimensions. It sounds like one singing a line of the hymn and another the next line of it.

I find it pity when two seek one another for such debates on topics that they claim to have understood intellectually.

In the above referred debate one party claimed that there is no such thing as the power of Naam. It is the totally different opinion than the Gurus Truth.

Another party claimed that by doing Waheguru Jaap one can do certain chamatkaars. I could not find Gurus suggesting once doing Simran of the word 'Waheguru'. Simran any way is not to do certain Chamatkaars.

Only true Simran has answers for all, not debating before knowing and experiencing it.

Balbir Singh

[(S Singh)]

Balbir SIngh, where did Kulbir Singh Jee say that we should do simran to do certain chamatkars? Just because one person is arguing to prove the power of Naam does not mean one is advocating the use of Chamatkars.

[ms514]

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

"I could not find Gurus suggesting once doing Simran of the word 'Waheguru'."

"vaemuhathaajaa vaeparavaahu ||

naanak dhaas kehahu gur vaahu"

Guru Arjan Dev Ji

Raag Aasaa

376

Of course, the Guru Roop in Panj Pyare have said this to all SIKHS (obviously of which YOU are NOT one of, as if you were, you would not have the nerve to question the Gurmantar).

Never mind that a contemporary of the Gurus, the very scribe of the Guru Granth Sahib, Bahi Gurdas Sahib wrote:

"Waheguru Gurmantar Hai Jap Haumai Khoae".

But of course, if Balbir "Singh" says its true, it must be...of course, what was I thinking... :D

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear ms514 Ji!

Hearing from you is pleasant. You raise points that need a clarification among Sikhs, in my view.

Thanks for referring the wonderful Vaak from Gurdev.

"vaemuhathaajaa vaeparavaahu ||

naanak dhaas kehahu gur vaahu"

Guru Arjan Dev Ji

Raag Aasaa

376

May I ask why Sikhs have changed Guru's Shabad 'gur vaahu' to 'waheguroo'? I hope we remember the result when we invert the sequence of Guru's holy words.

All the translations available are anyway interpreting something else.

Quote "Of course, the Guru Roop in Panj Pyare have said this to all SIKHS (obviously of which YOU are NOT one of, as if you were, you would not have the nerve to question the Gurmantar)."

Strange that some people can have the nerve being mislead since when by pujaarees. Is this the way to convince the generations by restricting them asking questions?

Quote "Never mind that a contemporary of the Gurus, the very scribe of the Guru Granth Sahib, Bahi Gurdas Sahib wrote: 'Waheguru Gurmantar Hai Jap Haumai Khoae'."

The Guru's food stills all hungers. Satisfied Sikhs need not to beg somewhere else.

Quote "But of course, if Balbir "Singh" says its true, it must be...of course, what was I thinking..."

Watch it carefully. Balbir Singh is nothing nor he is saying anything.

Love.

[ms514]

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

"May I ask why Sikhs have changed Guru's Shabad 'gur vaahu' to 'waheguroo'?"

Go ask Bhatt Gayandh Sahib that, whose Bani Guru Sahib included into the Guru Granth Sahib:

"Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vahejio" - Ang 1402.

Sikhs did not change anything...the word Vaheguru is clearly spelled out and Bhatt Sahib is actually reciting the Gurmantar in that Shabad.

"Strange that some people can have the nerve being mislead since when by pujaarees. Is this the way to convince the generations by restricting them asking questions?"

Restricting questioning? Restrict questioning?!?! If the Panj Pyare are the recognized form of the Guru, who are YOU or I to question their instructions? You want to question someone? Question the Guru Roop Panj Pyare, not a forum. In either way, the Guru Granth Sahib is replete with quotes of reciting Guru Guru or Vah Vah over and over. Guru Sahib's Gurmantar is recited by Bhatt Sahib in the Guru Granth Sahib. Bhai Gurdas Sahib goes more in depth to delineate that the Gurmantar is Vaheguru and that it should be recited.

"The Guru's food stills all hungers. Satisfied Sikhs need not to beg somewhere else."

The Gurbani quote referring to Gur Vah was enough for Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji...but you just use it for raising petty debates. When you can demonstrate that you have done as much sewa as Bhai Sahib, I'll listen to your questioning. And when you can do as much sewa as Bhai Gurdas Sahib Ji, you can go question him.

"Watch it carefully. Balbir Singh is nothing nor he is saying anything."

Oooohh...threats...look at me, I am shaking. Since when does a Sikh of the Guru have to fear stating the truth? Balbir Sahib, it is you who should "watch it carefully" when you raise stupid controversies. Guru Sahib will take care of my affairs...who will take care of yours?

Tell me, how is the cult enrollment going these days? Must be dropping...you are back on these forums again...what's the matter...people beginning to see through your fakeness?

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear ms514 Ji!

Quote "the word Vaheguru is clearly spelled out"

Is this also clearly spelled out by the Gurus that word 'vaheguru' is Gurmantar and Sikhs should repeat it in many different ways as it has become popular these days?

Quote "Bhatt Sahib is actually reciting the Gurmantar in that Shabad."

Do the living and understanding of a true Sikh depend on the word 'actually'?

Quote "If the Panj Pyare are the recognized form of the Guru, who are YOU or I to question their instructions?"

Guru Gobind Singh Ji lived many years after the day of 'Vaisaakhee' and wrote many great Hymns during this time too. Did He write about Panj Pyare and their ceremony? Perhaps someone can provide the first available writings on Panj Pyare and information about its authors? I will be grateful.

I do not feel the need of writing about the person Balbir Singh. He is not a topic.