Sikh Or Khalsa

[Guest s133k_s1kh]

FATEH!!

I was talkin to one of my friends. We were discussing about keeping a dastaar and not cutting hair. She goes " who was the founder of sikhism?". i said Guru Nanank Dev Ji. and she said there you go Guru Nanak Dev Ji gave us SIKHI but it was Guru Gobind Singh Ji who instituted Khalsa, the 5 K's.

Her argument was Khalsa has to keep rehit maryada. Sikh is not Khalsa . Sikh can practice Sikhi without being a Khalsa

I am not good at explaining things and am no where close to be able to clarify these issues the SIKH way. Could the SANGAT help me on this with some SUBSTANTIAL REFRENCES. Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!

GURU ANG SANG!!!

[Hardeep__singh]

I am afraid she is right veera, when you become khalsa you become "amer". However with a khalsa and the right things you do in your life would take you sachkhand, otherwise as a normal sikh you may be given another birth or second to sachkand.

Becoming a khalsa and doing wrong deeds, will not earn you anything too, remember this.

[Harmeet_Singh]

WO WO HOLD ON THERE!!

This friend of yours obviously has issues with keeping her hair and wearing a Daastar. Every Guru's teachings are important as the rest. It dosent matter if Guru Nanak Dev Ji didnt start the Khalsa, but we still must follow there teachings, what is the point in picking and choosing teh teachings that best suit you, tell your friend to follow the teachings of all the Guru's as best as he/she can.

All the Guru's were at 1 with Waheguru, so they know what they are talking about. Why do we always question the Guru's Teachings?? When we watch the news or a documentry we never once question it but we cant stop questioning the Guru's teachings.

[Guest Singh_jee]

not every one who takes amrit is khalsa, khalsa iss a litttle number of people! you mite think yehhh im khalsaa but theres a chance that your not, remember guru gobind singh jeeee choooses who rolls with him! not uss!

[Sarbloh Warrior]

their is no difference between a Khalsa and Guru Gobind Singh Ji which means a true khalsa is a brahmgyani -

the whole sikh to khalsa is a journey not 2 diferent things .. a sikh is a learner on the path to become a khalsa (pure) (one with waheguru)

[Guest s133k_s1kh]

FATEH!!

I am afraid she is right veera, when you become khalsa you become "amer". However with a khalsa and the right things you do in your life would take you sachkhand, otherwise as a normal sikh you may be given another birth or second to sachkand.

Becoming a khalsa and doing wrong deeds, will not earn you anything too, remember this.

Veer the question i asked wasn't as straightforward as it seemed. Think if this notion "a SIKH can practice SIKHI and cut his/her hair (Playing around with SIKHI) because the founder of our religion Guru Nanak Dev Ji didn't introduce the concept of 5 K's" is housed in the brains of our SIKH YOUTH the results would be catastrophic. Keeping in mind that the anti-SIKH forces are recklessly determined to entice our youth( who is regrettably already astray ), the above mentioned concept ( misconcept :D ) would act as a catalyst in obliterating SIKHI.

The youth already has a preconceived opinion that external appearance doesn't matter and its all about internal cleanness. As Harmeet veer said they are just looking for excuses and the above mentioned idea could be fatal to the already crumbling sikh faith.

THE QUESTION -- " IS THERE ANYTHING WRITTEN IN GURBANI THAT REFUTES MY FRIENDS CLAIMS AND NEGATES HER THEORY"

Bhul Chuk Maaf

GUR FATEH!!

[Hardeep__singh]

FATEH!!

I am afraid she is right veera, when you become khalsa you become "amer". However with a khalsa and the right things you do in your life would take you sachkhand, otherwise as a normal sikh you may be given another birth or second to sachkand.

Becoming a khalsa and doing wrong deeds, will not earn you anything too, remember this.

Veer the question i asked wasn't as straightforward as it seemed. Think if this notion "a SIKH can practice SIKHI and cut his/her hair (Playing around with SIKHI) because the founder of our religion Guru Nanak Dev Ji didn't introduce the concept of 5 K's" is housed in the brains of our SIKH YOUTH the results would be catastrophic. Keeping in mind that the anti-SIKH forces are recklessly determined to entice our youth( who is regrettably already astray ), the above mentioned concept ( misconcept :D ) would act as a catalyst in obliterating SIKHI.

The youth already has a preconceived opinion that external appearance doesn't matter and its all about internal cleanness. As Harmeet veer said they are just looking for excuses and the above mentioned idea could be fatal to the already crumbling sikh faith.

THE QUESTION -- " IS THERE ANYTHING WRITTEN IN GURBANI THAT REFUTES MY FRIENDS CLAIMS AND NEGATES HER THEORY"

Bhul Chuk Maaf

GUR FATEH!!

Guru Gobind Singh ji, the tenth master, the tenth Nanak introduced the 5 K's, and believing all Guru jis "Joth" is one. Guru Gobind Singh Ji's teaching are a must and he conveyed the message, so she should adhere to it if shes a sikh.

I see where she comes from, if you have clean heart and not bothered about the appearance, probably you will get re-birth or some sukh, but in order to attain the khalsa and not just the appearance of khalsa, within yourself you do have the key to sachkhand, but you must do more than tieing a dhumalla and looking like a khalsa.

[Guest PRITAM SINGH KHALSA]

not every one who takes amrit is khalsa, khalsa iss a litttle number of people! you mite think yehhh im khalsaa but theres a chance that your not, remember guru gobind singh jeeee choooses who rolls with him! not uss!

:TH:

their is no difference between a Khalsa and Guru Gobind Singh Ji which means a true khalsa is a brahmgyani -

the whole sikh to khalsa is a journey not 2 diferent things .. a sikh is a learner on the path to become a khalsa (pure) (one with waheguru)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

sicAwr isK bih siqgur pwis Gwlin kUiVAwr n lBnI ikqY Qwie Bwly ]

sachiaar sikh behi sathigur paas ghaalan koorriaar n labhanee kithai thhaae bhaalae ||

The truthful Sikhs sit by the True Guru's side and serve Him. The false ones search, but find no place of rest.

1 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

ijnw siqgur kw AwiKAw suKwvY nwhI iqnw muh Blyry iPrih diX gwly ]

jinaa sathigur kaa aakhiaa sukhaavai naahee thinaa muh bhalaerae firehi dhay gaalae ||

Those who are not pleased with the Words of the True Guru - their faces are cursed, and they wander around, condemned by God.

1 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

ijn AMdir pRIiq nhI hir kyrI sy ikcrku vyrweIAin mnmuK byqwly ]

jin andhar preeth nehee har kaeree sae kicharak vaeraaeean manamukh baethaalae ||

Those who do not have the Love of the Lord within their hearts - how long can those demonic, self-willed manmukhs be consoled?

2 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

siqgur no imlY su Awpxw mnu Qwie rKY Ehu Awip vrqY AwpxI vQu nwly ]

sathigur no milai s aapanaa man thhaae rakhai ouhu aap varathai aapanee vathh naalae ||

One who meets the True Guru, keeps his mind in its own place; he spends only his own assets.

3 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

jn nwnk ieknw guru myil suKu dyvY ieik Awpy viK kFY Tgvwly ]1]

jan naanak eikanaa gur mael sukh dhaevai eik aapae vakh kadtai thagavaalae ||1||

O servant Nanak, some are united with the Guru; to some, the Lord grants peace, while others - deceitful cheats - suffer in isolation. ||1||

4 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

mÚ 4 ]

ma 4 ||

Fourth Mehl:

4 NULL NULL

ijnw AMdir nwmu inDwnu hir iqn ky kwj diX Awdy rwis ]

jinaa andhar naam nidhhaan har thin kae kaaj dhay aadhae raas ||

Those who have the treasure of the Lord's Name deep within their hearts - the Lord resolves their affairs.

4 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

iqn cUkI muhqwjI lokn kI hir pRBu AMgu kir bYTw pwis ]

thin chookee muhathaajee lokan kee har prabh ang kar baithaa paas ||

They are no longer subservient to other people; the Lord God sits by them, at their side.

5 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

jW krqw vil qw sBu ko vil siB drsnu dyiK krih swbwis ]

jaan karathaa val thaa sabh ko val sabh dharasan dhaekh karehi saabaas ||

When the Creator is on their side, then everyone is on their side. Beholding their vision, everyone applauds them.

6 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

swhu pwiqswhu sBu hir kw kIAw siB jn kau Awie krih rhrwis ]

saahu paathisaahu sabh har kaa keeaa sabh jan ko aae karehi reharaas ||

Kings and emperors are all created by the Lord; they all come and bow in reverence to the Lord's humble servant.

6 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

gur pUry kI vfI vifAweI hir vfw syiv Aqulu suKu pwieAw ]

gur poorae kee vaddee vaddiaaee har vaddaa saev athul sukh paaeiaa ||

Great is the greatness of the Perfect Guru. Serving the Great Lord, I have obtained immeasurable peace.

7 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

guir pUrY dwnu dIAw hir inhclu inq bKsy cVY svwieAw ]

gur poorai dhaan dheeaa har nihachal nith bakhasae charrai savaaeiaa ||

The Lord has bestowed this eternal gift upon the Perfect Guru; His blessings increase day by day.

8 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

koeI inMdku vifAweI dyiK n skY so krqY Awip pcwieAw ]

koee nindhak vaddiaaee dhaekh n sakai so karathai aap pachaaeiaa ||

The slanderer, who cannot endure His greatness, is destroyed by the Creator Himself.

8 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

jnu nwnku gux bolY krqy ky Bgqw no sdw rKdw AwieAw ]2]

jan naanak gun bolai karathae kae bhagathaa no sadhaa rakhadhaa aaeiaa ||2||

Servant Nanak chants the Glorious Praises of the Creator, who protects His devotees forever. ||2||

9 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

pauVI ]

pourree ||

Pauree:

10 NULL NULL

qU swihbu Agm dieAwlu hY vf dwqw dwxw ]

thoo saahib agam dhaeiaal hai vadd dhaathaa dhaanaa ||

You, O Lord and Master, are inaccessible and merciful; You are the Great Giver, All-knowing.

10 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

quDu jyvfu mY horu ko idis nw AwveI qUhYN suGVu myrY min Bwxw ]

thudhh jaevadd mai hor ko dhis naa aavee thoohain sugharr maerai man bhaanaa ||

I can see no other as great as You; O Lord of Wisdom, You are pleasing to my mind.

10 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

mohu kutMbu idis Awvdw sBu clxhwrw Awvx jwxw ]

mohu kuttanb dhis aavadhaa sabh chalanehaaraa aavan jaanaa ||

Emotional attachment to your family and everything you see is temporary, coming and going.

11 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

jo ibnu scy horqu icqu lwiedy sy kUiVAwr kUVw iqn mwxw ]

jo bin sachae horath chith laaeidhae sae koorriaar koorraa thin maanaa ||

Those who attach their consciousness to anything except the True Lord are false, and false is their pride.

11 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

nwnk scu iDAwie qU ibnu scy pic pic muey Ajwxw ]10]

naanak sach dhhiaae thoo bin sachae pach pach mueae ajaanaa ||10||

O Nanak, meditate on the True Lord; without the True Lord, the ignorant rot away and putrefy to death. ||10||

12 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

slok mÚ 4 ]

salok ma 4 ||

Shalok, Fourth Mehl:

13 NULL NULL

Ago dy sq Bwau n idcY ipCo dy AwiKAw kMim n AwvY ]

ago dhae sath bhaao n dhichai pishho dhae aakhiaa kanm n aavai ||

At first, he did not show respect to the Guru; later, he offered excuses, but it is no use.

13 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

AD ivic iPrY mnmuKu vycwrw glI ikau suKu pwvY ]

adhh vich firai manamukh vaechaaraa galee kio sukh paavai ||

The wretched, self-willed manmukhs wander around and are stuck mid-way; how can they find peace by mere words?

13 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

ijsu AMdir pRIiq nhI siqgur kI su kUVI AwvY kUVI jwvY ]

jis andhar preeth nehee sathigur kee s koorree aavai koorree jaavai ||

Those who have no love for the True Guru within their hearts come with falsehood, and leave with falsehood.

14 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

jy ik®pw kry myrw hir pRBu krqw qW siqguru pwrbRhmu ndrI AwvY ]

jae kirapaa karae maeraa har prabh karathaa thaan sathigur paarabreham nadharee aavai ||

When my Lord God, the Creator, grants His Grace, then they come to see the True Guru as the Supreme Lord God.

14 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

qw Aipau pIvY sbdu gur kyrw sBu kwVw AMdysw Brmu cukwvY ]

thaa apio peevai sabadh gur kaeraa sabh kaarraa andhaesaa bharam chukaavai ||

Then , they drink in the Nectar, the Word of the Guru's Shabad; all burning, anxiety, and doubts are eliminated.

15 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

sdw Anµid rhY idnu rwqI jn nwnk Anidnu hir gux gwvY ]1]

sadhaa anandh rehai dhin raathee jan naanak anadhin har gun gaavai ||1||

They remain in ecstasy forever, day and night; O servant Nanak, they sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, night and day. ||1||

16 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

mÚ 4 ]

ma 4 ||

Fourth Mehl:

16 NULL NULL

gur siqgur kw jo isKu AKwey su Blky auiT hir nwmu iDAwvY ]

gur sathigur kaa jo sikh akhaaeae s bhalakae outh har naam dhhiaavai ||

One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru the True Guru shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name.

16 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

audmu kry Blky prBwqI iesnwnu kry AMimRq sir nwvY ]

oudham karae bhalakae parabhaathee eisanaan karae anmrith sar naavai ||

Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar.

17 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

aupdyis gurU hir hir jpu jwpY siB iklivK pwp doK lih jwvY ]

oupadhaes guroo har har jap jaapai sabh kilavikh paap dhokh lehi jaavai ||

Following the Instructions of the Guru, he is to chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. All sins, misdeeds and negativity shall be erased.

18 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

iPir cVY idvsu gurbwxI gwvY bhidAw auTidAw hir nwmu iDAwvY ]

fir charrai dhivas gurabaanee gaavai behadhiaa outhadhiaa har naam dhhiaavai ||

Then, at the rising of the sun, he is to sing Gurbani; whether sitting down or standing up, he is to meditate on the Lord's Name.

18 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

jo swis igrwis iDAwey myrw hir hir so gurisKu gurU min BwvY ]

jo saas giraas dhhiaaeae maeraa har har so gurasikh guroo man bhaavai ||

One who meditates on my Lord, Har, Har, with every breath and every morsel of food - that GurSikh becomes pleasing to the Guru's Mind.

19 Gaurhee Guru Ram Das

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

All these "Guru Nanak" sikhs need to read Guru nanak Dev Ji's baani. You will notice that people who talk about the difference between Guru nanak Dev ji and Guru Gobind singh ji do not read gurbaani.

Guru nanak dev ji talked about the importance of giving your head to guru sahib. and guru gobind singh ji asked for it. You gotta know why you are giving your head to guru sahib. the first 9 nanaks prepared sikh to give their heada nd 10th master said ok, it's time to give me your head, let's roll. :D

it all comes down to gurbaani. I'm not amritdhaari but I'm not going to try to rationalize my incpmpletness as a sikh as many people with agendas do in our community.

Here is a perfect example of guru nanak dev ji's perparation of the sikh panth for the first amrit ceremony at kesgarh sahib:

Jao Tau prem khelan ka chau

If you desire to play the game of love

sir dhar talee galee meri auo

Come with your head on your palm

it marag pair dhareejai

plant your feet on this path

sir deejai kaan na keejai

and Give your head without delay

peace.

[Bijla Singh]

There is no difference between a Sikh and a Khalsa. Two words but meanings are the same.