Law Issues In Uk

[Guest Glasgow Singh]

Does anybody actually know the official "maximum" length you are allowed for a kirpan in uk?

someone told me it was 15"?

i dno much bout the law soo any little helps

[Khalsa Fauji]

Does anybody actually know the official "maximum" length you are allowed for a kirpan in uk?

someone told me it was 15"?

Gurfateh!!

There is no limit, just as long as you can justify why you have IT with you. Most police forces tell their officers that Sikhs were ceremonial swords that are normally no longer than 5". So wearing one which is 15" may come to a shock to them and they will ask you why is it so big when its only meant to be ceremonial???

However this shouldnt stop you :D

Bhul Chuk Maaf!

Gurfateh!!

[god is great]

9"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I THINK (LEGAL LENGTH)!!

[One Man Army]

as far as i know, its actualy only 3". but if you do wear a bigger one, i dont think the police realy kik up a fuss, as long as theres no problem caused. they sometimes have the fear that they may be liable if you reply with, you hurt religious sentiments.

[Tarrandeep Kaur]

hmm dnt think its matters too much. i seen two police officers today, they seen my kirpan which is 12inches, and they both jus smiled at me, so i was well chuffed lol

[Akali Nihang]

The police force do not really make a fuss about it anymore they are usualy told about these things. i wear a 12- 15 inch kirpan to college without having problems. I've been asked about it once but a little explanation solves it. Another thing is people know not to mess with you.

African carribein are funniest though, some are like " noooowayyy manz get to carry swords n shizzile , man i'm coverting to sikhism "

[Bir_Ras]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ke fateh

Here are the exact requirements set out by the law in UK. THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE ACT 1988 and 1996

THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE ACT 1988

Offence of having article with blade or point in public place.

139.—(1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5) below, any person who has an article to which this section applies with him in a public place shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) Subject to subsection (3) below, this section applies to any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except a folding pocketknife.

(3) This section applies to a folding pocketknife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 3 inches.

(4) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.

(5) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (4) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had the article with him—

(a) for use at work;

(b) for religious reasons; or

© as part of any national costume.

(6) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) above shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

(7) In this section "public place" includes any place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted access, whether on payment or otherwise.

(8) This section shall not have effect in relation to anything done before it comes into force

THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE ACT 1996

Increased penalty for offence of having article with blade or point in public place. 3. - (1) In section 139 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988, in subsection (6), for the words following "shall be liable" there is substituted-

"(a) on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum, or both;

(b) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years, or a fine, or both."

(2) Subsection (1) above does not apply to an offence committed before this Act comes into force.

Offence of having article with blade or point (or offensive weapon) on school premises etc. 4. - (1) After section 139 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (offence of having article with blade or point in public place) there is inserted-

"Offence of having article with blade or point (or offensive weapon) on school premises. 139A. - (1) Any person who has an article to which section 139 of this Act applies with him on school premises shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) Any person who has an offensive weapon within the meaning of section 1 of the Prevention of Crime Act 1953 with him on school premises shall be guilty of an offence.

(3) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) or (2) above to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article or weapon with him on the premises in question.

(4) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (3) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) or (2) above to prove that he had the article or weapon in question with him-

(a) for use at work,

(b) for educational purposes,

© for religious reasons, or

(d) as part of any national costume.

(5) A person guilty of an offence-

(a) under subsection (1) above shall be liable-

(i) on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum, or both;

(ii) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years, or a fine, or both;

(b) under subsection (2) above shall be liable-

(i) on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum, or both;

(ii) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding four years, or a fine, or both.

(6) In this section and section 139B, "school premises" means land used for the purposes of a school excluding any land occupied solely as a dwelling by a person employed at the school; and "school" has the meaning given by section 14(5) of the Further and Higher Education Act 1992.

(7) In the application of this section to Northern Ireland-

(a) the reference in subsection (2) above to section 1 of the Prevention of Crime Act 1953 is to be construed as a reference to Article 22 of the Public Order (Northern Ireland) Order 1987; and

(b) the reference in subsection (6) above to section 14(5) of the Further and Higher Education Act 1992 is to be construed as a reference to Article 2(2) of the Education and Libraries (Northern Ireland) Order 1986.

Power of entry to search for articles with a blade or point and offensive weapons. 139B. - (1) A constable may enter school premises and search those premises and any person on those premises for-

(a) any article to which section 139 of this Act applies, or

(b) any offensive weapon within the meaning of section 1 of the Prevention of Crime Act 1953,

if he has reasonable grounds for believing that an offence under section 139A of this Act is being, or has been, committed.

(2) If in the course of a search under this section a constable discovers an article or weapon which he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be an article or weapon of a kind described in subsection (1) above, he may seize and retain it.

(3) The constable may use reasonable force, if necessary, in the exercise of the power of entry conferred by this section.

(4) In the application of this section to Northern Ireland the reference in subsection (1)(b) above to section 1 of the Prevention of Crime Act 1953 is to be construed as a reference to Article 22 of the Public Order (Northern Ireland) Order 1987."

(2) In section 172 of that Act (extent), in subsection (3), for "section 139" there is substituted "sections 139 to 139B".

(3) After section 49 of the Criminal Law (Consolidation) (Scotland) Act 1995 (offence of having in public place article with blade or point) there is inserted-

"Offence of having article with blade or point (or offensive weapon) on school premises. 49A. - (1) Any person who has an article to which section 49 of this Act applies with him on school premises shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) Any person who has an offensive weapon within the meaning of section 47 of this Act with him on school premises shall be guilty of an offence.

(3) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) or (2) above to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article or weapon with him on the premises in question.

(4) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (3) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) or (2) above to prove that he had the article or weapon in question with him-

(a) for use at work,

(b) for educational purposes,

© for religious reasons, or

(d) as part of any national costume.

(5) A person guilty of an offence-

(a) under subsection (1) above shall be liable-

(i) on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum, or both;

(ii) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years, or a fine, or both;

(b) under subsection (2) above shall be liable-

(i) on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum, or both;

(ii) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding four years, or a fine, or both.

(6) In this section and section 49B of this Act, "school premises" means land used for the purposes of a school excluding any land occupied solely as a dwelling by a person employed at the school; and "school" has the meaning given by section 135(1) of the Education (Scotland) Act 1980.

Power of entry to search for articles with a blade or point and offensive weapons. 49B. - (1) A constable may enter school premises and search those premises and any person on those premises for-

(a) any article to which section 49 of this Act applies, or

(b) any offensive weapon within the meaning of section 47 of this Act,

if he has reasonable grounds for suspecting that an offence under section 49A of this Act is being, or has been, committed.

(2) If in the course of a search under this section a constable discovers an article or weapon which he has reasonable grounds for believing to be an article or weapon of a kind described in subsection (1) above, he may seize it.

(3) The constable may use reasonable force, if necessary, in the exercise of the power of entry conferred by this section."

(4) Subsections (1) to (3) above shall come into force on such day as the Secretary of State may by order made by statutory instrument appoint.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ke fateh

[Bir_Ras]

The 3" inches is for pocket knifes. Kirpan length has not been defined. I think the reason for that is that the law is not able to define how and what extent the kirpan to defend yourself can be defined.

[SikhSpeak]

You gotta love the people from African-Carribean desent, they love the fact we can carry a Kirpan...I had someone (A/C) come to fix the washing machine, he was just loving the fact I asked him for some Cha a few times, you Sikh people are so nice, I love you guys :D

[All-Info]

The 3" inches is for pocket knifes. Kirpan length has not been defined. I think the reason for that is that the law is not able to define how and what extent the kirpan to defend yourself can be defined.

Its 3" in terms of school and work place, i remember when i told work i was wearing kirpan after i took amrit, they said i cud wear a 9inch because i told em i cudnt take it of as i took amrit with it. They didnt know anything better, just what the law advised. They carried out a Health and Safety analysis to check if it was safe (to see if it poked me while sitting down!?!???)

The law doesnt say much, just wear on a short gathra for work etc. In terms of public, do try to keep as much as u can covered up, ie wear a jacket that dnt restrict u getin to the kirpan like wearing it under ur tshirt..

I used to wear 3ft with bana to tesco n stuf, no1 said nething, not even copys (i was in bana so cud get away with it but dnt take stupid risks with todays climate.. with english clothes)