Are women to blame?

[Singhstah]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

us males arent perfect either :St:

[chamkila]

At the end of the days its not the mum fault.

When two people decide to have a baby its both of they right to teach the child whats right and wrong. I can't understand why people say its the mum fault that really makes me sad and stocked that some one would say that. My baby is with my Wife all the time and I am at work all the time, I can't blame my wife if my child is not a GurSikh and does not know about Sikhi it will be both of our fault for not teaching her about Sikhi.

Its sad to just blame one person.

[Niranjana]

Gur Fateh!!!

Are women to blame -NO!!!

The majority of problems and issues we face today as a Panth can be traced to MEN!!! Men are to BLAME!!!

All the examples of women 'going bad' in the foregoing posts are frankly misguided! I am not condoning these actions, however these are symptoms of greater issues, not the cause...if you look at the root cause, you'll find in most instances MEN are to BLAME!!!

WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

I am frankly SICK AND TIRED of hearing this nonsense talk from self righteous Sikh Men...stop blaming Women for your own weaknesses as Men...look at the matter more carefully and you'll see for yourself that Men are by and large at the centre of all these issues we currently face.

I do NOT in this instance apologise if I offend any Men, if this hurts anyone, well sorry, TRUTH does hurt!!!

This is an issue that needs to be dealt with and no I am not campaigning for some 1960's feminist establishment!

Bir Ras de Naal...

GUR BAR AKAAAAAAAAAALLL!!!

SAT SRI AKAAAAAAAAAAALLL!!!

[jagjit_waheguru]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Pyare jio, I think this has really become an issue after the non-allowance of Bibian to do seva in Harmandar sahib. Gurmat in terms of idealogue clearly demonstrates equality. But in practice many punjabi sentiments seem to be still apparent.

I remember an incident 10 years ago. Prof. Manjit Singh was Akal Thakt Jathedar then. He allowed bibian to do seva, and got a lot of flack as a result. But no bibi would come forward. Then Bibi Amarjit Kaur, wife of Bhai Fauja Singh, and Bibi Shanti kaur, leading figure in 3HO, came forwad and did seva. They did seva at Amrit vela with Singhs who wash Siri Harmandar sahib with milk.

No one said anything from men, eventhough many were against. But to most peoples astonishment, there were a large group of bibian who held a protest against these two bibian, and demanded they were removed from the Panth for sacriligous behaviour in Harmandar sahib.

Unbelievable or what! Honestly what can you do with these people.

I noted very few people helped the two Southall bibian who started the campaign, it is a shame really. Like everything in life, these things are a struggle, but if you persevere, anything can be achieved.

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

P.s. for once niranjana, part of me does agree with you. But what I have stated above is fact. Lets try to stick to facts.

[Niranjana]

P.s. for once niranjana, part of me does agree with you. But what I have stated above is fact. Lets try to stick to facts.

Bhai Sahib Jagjit jeeo, thanks for remembering me in your comments.

For the record again, if you look at my posts, I use facts where I intend to make a 'factual' comment. Where I make a 'personal' comment, I indicate it as such! (Only wish others would follow suit!)

If personal thoughts and ideas are not permitted on this forum, then please could the moderators change their guidelines accordingly and I shall only make factual statements with references and look forward to all others doing the same.

I in principle, let's stick to facts and ask that you also 'look' at the facts surrounding anothers comments.

Kind regards and Guru Raakha,

Niranjana.

[AK-47]

but for once rather than asking how are women driven down in sikhi, why not ask what are they doing for it?

if women want to be representative's for sikhi then surely they need to participate in things. I know that personally at my university, in discussions on sikhi the girls have just as much knowledge as the guys, but then when asked to do a talk or lead a discussion they all refuse to do it. is that my fault or the fault of the other singhs, we have all done talks etc, and its just turn for one of the ladies but if they are refusing, surely the question needs to be asked.... why??

guru ji di kirpa nal those of us who have had the blessing to become sikhs, will all admit that our mothers had a big part to play in it, myself included. BUT question is what is teh diff between our mothers and those of our friends and companions who have no intrest/knowledge of sikhi?

did their mothers not teach them? are our few mothers super-mums? or just weird!? :T:

i know people who were the worst kind of people you could imagine b4 they took amrit and know are just wonderful gursikhs... each has a diff story about how they got inspired.. but a common thread is that their mums made them to japji sahib as kids, or made them go gurdwara (mum would keep me there all the time as a baby, and when i was able to go school at least once a day if not twice).

there is a prob with youth and sikhi, im asking do we need to take a diff approach? perhaps educate the mothers on sikhi rather than try to teach youth aged 20 who have never

experienced sikhi b4 in their lives? i belive if sikhi is to progress we need special gursikhs, and as guru ji said these kings, warriors and saints are to be born from women, but if their mothers dont teach them anything... then what hope is there?

again i ask, how many women actually car about their sisters in punjab and delhi who were raped?honeslty iv been saying this for years, why dont women say "we want justice for our raped sisers". when a woman says that, its 100 times more effective then when a man says it!!!

Jaswant Kaur from the shrg did a number of talks on 84 at uni's this yr, people left the talks crying openly, the singh sitting next to me didnt even try to hide the fact.

she is one example sooo effective why dont others!?!? dont our women care about what happened? or is doing seva the only thing we care about?? what about doing seva to save lives and get justice?!?!

[Sherneekaur]

I myself was born into a gursikh family and was taught by both of my parents. Now my dad plays a bigger role in teaching me about sikhi and bani. There are very few women in this world who wear daastars or keskis which is a real shame. Guru Gobind Singh jee said women and men are equal that is why he gave both a Singh and Singhee a Gursikh Baana which is a Chola and Daastar. But does anyone really wear what Guru Sahib jee told us to wear?? In western culture today males play a dominant role unlike females. Females should play more active roles in politics and in Sikhi! So come on Bhainjees out there lets do something and actually change the way the World thinks of Women. Lets help those bibiaan who want to do seva in Harmandir Sahib we are not just doing it for them we are doing it for the Khalsa Panth and for ourselves also for future generations of Bibiaan.

[AK-47]

yeh come on everyone, lets help them do seva.... because as far as sikh women goes, that the MOST IMPORTANT thing isnt it.. theres nothing else.... sorry (or perhaps not) for sounding so sarcastic, but thats all you hear when any discussion on women and progression takes place!!

is that ALL the sikh women want?!?! to be able to do seva... is that all you need or are capable of doing!??

Its quite embarassing at times, in a religious nationalism lecture recently on khalistan, when i informed the class that the struggle had slowed down so much that many people actually say that it is dead.... TWO jewish girls and one other christian girl literally verbally attacked me!

they were shocked and horrified that so much had happened and that our people had just forgotten about it. They said that I (We) should put all our efforts into re-igniting the movement and try no matter what to fight for our rights.... these were WOMEN active, motivated, dedicated, upfront women.

when the issue of israel was discussed, rightly or wrongly they stood up for what they believed, well if they can why cant ours? this is the point im continously trying to make!!

maybe it is men's fault or someone else's but sikh women just appear to be house makers, and not world shakers.

I am saying this from my own experiences, i did a talk on 1984 and the delhi riots a few weeks ago to a group of sikh college students, the guys were listening intently, the girls were gossiping. After the presentation and talk, the guys asked questions, discussed it and looked around, the girls .. didnt care! ok there are some that do care and show their concern for the quam, but

i dont see the rest doing anything! (just to add concerning the last post, it isnt even about whether or not you wear a dastar, out of the girls i know the ones who wear patkeh do more than the ones with dastar's and some moneh boys and girls i know do more than many of us amritdhari's, sometimes you have to look beyond their appearance, if you wanna wear a dastar then get up and do something with it, dont just sit around at home!)

if this offends any women, then so be it, but next year its the 20th anniversary of the Desecration of darbar sahib, and 20 years since the delhi massacres, if you have any anakh then do something collectively as a group of women. if every other group or quam can do it then im sure you can to.

think beyond the 5 mins of seva at harimandir sahib, there is so much you could do for the panth if only you opened your eyes and looked further.

[Sherneekaur]

I agree with you Veer Ak-47! I wish women were not so scared to fight for their rights. It takes courage to stand up for yourself and alot of women don't have that. I wish all the women could be like Mata Bhaag Kaur, Mata Sahib Kaur and many more puratan bibiaan who stood up for their rights and Sikhi and faught. We need to wake up Bhainjees and actually start making a difference in this world and lets fight for our rights. I'm pumped and ready to start!!

[Guest balwinderkaur]

Honestly AK-47, you're right. Some women just couldnt care less. They dont look beyond their rose-tinted glasses and all that occupies most of their brain matter is:" Wow such a nice suit.....where did u buy it from?..How much is it?? New beauty salon opened? Whats the services offered?? Hey did you hear?? Falana kuri or falana munda this this that that. " They have deteriorated into the depths of utter shallowness.IT'S SO SICK. Some womenfolk dont even care to keep gurooduaara saaheb clean... just look at the langgar halls(here..dunno abt elsewhere), the men's sides are so neat and clean, the womens sides are so filthy. Its soooooooooooo saddening. :'( Yea true, in many cases, chauvinist males have hammered down vocal females...i dont deny that....both genders are responsible in a way. Just cant seem to pinpoint whose more responsible....guys or girls. Both should share the blame equally and work towards bettering this world.