Mool Mantar Translated

[khalistan_zindabaad]

read the book above and tell us what you think about that, how about what are the argurments for it to be upto gurprasaad.

[raj_karega_khalsa]

So, after this antoher point I noticed...

the author talks about when Guroo Naanak Dev Jee went into the Vaiyee nadee for 3 days, and describes what it was like.

Near the end of this part, the author has written

"Then the God became the Guru of Sri Guru Nanak and gave him the Mool Mantar couplet:

Dohra. God himself acted as Guru.

He adopted Nanak as His disciple and said:

Ik Oankaar His name is true. He is creator Lord! Fearless, has no enmity, immortal away from life and death, He is His own creator.

(From Sri Guru Nanak Parkash Chapter 29)

At the time of the sermon the God himself acted as the Guru and Sri Guru Nanak was his disciple. The Sri Guru Nanak spoke the following portion:

Jap. Truth was at the beginning. Truth was in all the diffrent periods. The Truth previals! Truth will prevail!

On this the God said, "Whosoever recites this, along with the first portion will enjoy my blessings in this world as well as in heaven. He will be lessed with all the necessities and comforts. His wishes will be fulfilled and he will be fully satisfied. The whole portion is regarded as Mool Mantar."

end of quote.

So, this is all fine and good...it would be some proof in favour of Mool Mantar being up to Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach IF there was a credible source for all of this happening. The source of this story given by the author, is Gurbani Paatth Darshan written by Baba Gurbachan Singh Jee Bhindraanvaalae! I am in no way disrespecting Baba Jee, but this is not a credible source for history.

This is just going to lead in to 'he said, she said' 'what are you saying my baba's a liar?'

I don't want none of that. What I'm saying is that if a claim is to be made about Mool Mantar being up to Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach, then there needs to be logical and historical evidence in favour of this. Not 'my baba said....'

Furthermore, the author says,

the Mool Mantar was given to the mankind by Guru Nanak under the stamp of his own name upto Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach. Had it been given without the seal of his name, it might have created doubts, whether this has been given to the mankind by Sri Guru Nanak himself. Many people would have doubted its authenticity. Had it been without the seal of Nanak's name, it would have proved fatal. Many people might have regarded it the art work of some poet. That is why the farsighted Sru Guru Nanak used the name of his seal so that in the Kalyug it might no be dis-believed.

hmm...fair enough, that arguement kinda makes sense. But then why doesn't Guroo Jee put 'the stamp of his name' in Raagmaalaa? If this arguement is to be used in favour of long Mool Mantar, then everyone must agree the Raagmaaalaa was NOT written by Guroo Jee...

Then it is suggested that these controversies over BaaNee were started by the British to weaken the Sikh Kaum; about Raagmaalaa, Mool MAntar, Chaupaee Sahib etc. Now this arguement is just comedy. Last time I checked, Sooraj Prakash also talks about how Raagmaalaa is NOT BaaNee. So Bhai Sahib Randheer Singh Jee was an agent of the British trying to destroy the Sikh Kaum, eh? Bhai Sahib was not perfect and he is NOT our Guroo - but I think we can all agree that Bhai Sahib was not a stooge of the British Government, against whom, Bhai Sahib fought.

I apologise for any disrespectfull remarks or anything said out of Ego...

[raj_karega_khalsa]

I've looked over the tract 'khalistan_zindabad' recommended...the main arguement is that 'the Sampardaa's who can trace themselves to Guroo Jee said it, so it's true.' Not very convincing....this arguement in itself is a whole other controversy. To believe this, you also have to believe in these 'sampardaas' lineages. If all 5 of those Sampardaas are from Guroo Jee, can you explain why they all have DIFFERENT Maryaaday?

A point is made that three out of five Takhats are under control of SGPC and the two that are not, follow 'Puraathan Maryaadaa' of 'full' Rehiraas Sahib and 'full' Mool Mantar. That's funny, because at these Takhats ALOT of Anti-Gurmat stuff also goes on i.e. Jhatka, Bhang, Havans, Tilaks. Is this stuff 'Puraathan Maryaadaa' as well?

The argument about Britishers was answered in my last post.

The point of Mool Mantar vs. Mangal Charan is interesting so is Bhai Gurdaas Jee's Vaars...I don't really have enough Giaan to answer this one. It's something to consider and think about...

The points of long Mool Mantar being written on Baba Deep Singh Jee's chakar and other things of the sort are good points. BUT why is it that the COUNTLESS, HAND-WRITTEN copies of Mool Mantar, written by GUROO SAHIB THEMSELVES are ignored?

I apologise for any disrespectfull remarks or anything said out of Ego...

[khalistan_zindabaad]

The point of Mool Mantar vs. Mangal Charan is interesting so is Bhai Gurdaas Jee's Vaars...I don't really have enough Giaan to answer this one. It's something to consider and think about...

The points of long Mool Mantar being written on Baba Deep Singh Jee's chakar and other things of the sort are good points

including guru gobind singhs jees kamar kasa, and dhaal

so shall we just leave at that now and end this debate

[Guest Akirtghan]

umm i know we are not suppose to have debate about mool mantr as it is a very very deep topic which i am not capable of discussing. but another thing i was told to notice was where guru sahib as put '1'

it comes after nanak hosi bhi sach. and if we keep reading from there on, after the first pauri, sochai souch naa hovaii, another '1' is written.

[N30S1NGH]

sorry to make this contoversial topic more contoversial. But just like to state the truth.

When it comes to Mool Mantar, even sampardava's are divided.

For example- Hotimardan/Rara Sahib/Harkhowale mahapursh do fully beleive in essence- mool mantar is up to "Gurparsad" . There are handwritings of sri guru gobind singh ji writing mool mantar up to Gurparsad with an signature to back this beleif. I beleive its on the internet somewhere. I ll trying lookin for it and post it up if i find it.

However when jagiasso takes amrit from these samparda's stated above they are given up to nanak hosi bhi sach in adition to mool mantar. Reason behind it is explained in atamik vichar tape by sant isher singh ji rara sahib, same view is hold by harkhowale sants is that even though mool mantar is up to gurparsad, still sikh sadhus in form of panj pyares give jaagiaso(new student in sikhi) up to nanak hosi bhi sach, i think that is done to reduce intensity of mool mantar itself because there are many high avastha vale gursikhs who got mool mantar up to Gurparsad by mahapursh from samparda's like- hoti mardan, reru sahib, rara sahib, harkhowale.

Recently, there was invitation by sant hari singh radhawale to sant jagjit singh ji harkhowale who beleive mool mantar up to gurparsad but give until nanak hosi bhi sach according to the avastha(low or high avastha) of jagaiso. Harkhowale sant decided not to vichar regarding this because it causes un-necessary bickering because his along with his previous predeccessors stance on mool mantar is open according to the avastha. They do beleive its up to Gurparsad however most of time in amrit sanchar sants from samparda's stated above give up to nanak hosi sach.

[raj_karega_khalsa]

QUOTE

The point of Mool Mantar vs. Mangal Charan is interesting so is Bhai Gurdaas Jee's Vaars...I don't really have enough Giaan to answer this one. It's something to consider and think about...

The points of long Mool Mantar being written on Baba Deep Singh Jee's chakar and other things of the sort are good points

including guru gobind singhs jees kamar kasa, and dhaal

so shall we just leave at that now and end this debate

VAAH JEE VAAH!

What an excellent way to debate, just remove and ignore half of what the 'other guy' said...

I'm being sarcastic by the way...

but hey, maybe you did just somehow innocently miss the rest of what I said....

The points of long Mool Mantar being written on Baba Deep Singh Jee's chakar and other things of the sort are good points. BUT why is it that the COUNTLESS, HAND-WRITTEN copies of Mool Mantar, written by GUROO SAHIB THEMSELVES are ignored?

[Guest]

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

ikonkaar satigur prasaadi ॥

One Oankar, the primal energy, realized through the grace of divine preceptor

Line 1


ਏਕੰਕਾਰੁ ਇਕਾਂਗ ਲਿਖਿ ਊੜਾ ਓਅੰਕਾਰੁ ਲਿਖਾਇਆ ।

aykankaaru ikaang|ikhi oorhaa aoankaaru|ikhaaiaa|

That homogenous supreme reality (God) ) first was written as numeral one mulmantr – the credal formula) and then He was inscribed as Ura syllable of Gurmukhi, further pronounced as Oankar.

Line 2


ਸਤਿਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਹੋਇ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਸਦਾਇਆ ।

satinaamu karataa purakhu nirabhau hoi niravairu sadaaiaa|

Then He was called satinamu, the truth by name. Kartapurakh, the creator Lord, nirbhau, the fearless one, and Nirvair, withou rancour.

Line 3


ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਪਰਤਖਿ ਹੋਇ ਨਾਉ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਭਾਇਆ ।

akaal moorati paratakhi hoi naau ajoonee saibhan bhaaiaa|

Then emerging as the timeless akal murati to caIled as unborn and self-existent.

Line 4


ਗੁਰਪਰਸਾਦਿ ਸੁ ਆਦਿ ਸਚੁ ਜੁਗਹ ਜੁਗੰਤਰਿ ਹੋਂਦਾ ਆਇਆ ।

guraparasaadi su aadi sachu jugah jugantari hondaa aaiaa|

Realized through the grace of Guru, the divine preceptor, the current of this primeval truth (God) has continuously moving since before the beginning and throughout the Ages.

Line 5


ਹੈਭੀ ਹੋਸੀ ਸਚੁ ਨਾਉ ਸਚੁ ਦਰਸਣੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ ।

haibhee hosee sachu naau sachu darasanu satiguroo dikhaaiaa|

He is verily the truth and will continue to be the truth for ever.

Line 6


ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਲਿਵਲੀਣੁ ਹੋਇ ਗੁਰੁ ਚੇਲਾ ਪਰਚਾ ਪਰਚਾਇਆ ।

sabadu surati|ivaleenu hoi guru chaylaa parachaa parachaaiaa|

The true Guru has made available (for me) the glimpse of this truth.

Line 7


ਗੁਰੁ ਚੇਲਾ ਰਹਰਾਸਿ ਕਰਿ ਵੀਹ ਇਕੀਹ ਚੜ੍ਹਾਉ ਚੜ੍ਹਾਇਆ ।

guru chaylaa raharaasi kari veeh ikeeh charhhaau charhhaaiaa|

One who merging his iousness in the Word establishes a relationship of Guru and disciple, that disciple devoting himself to the Guru and progressing from worldliness attunes his consciousness in and with the Lord.

Line 8


ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੁਖ ਫਲੁ ਅਲਖੁ ਲਖਾਇਆ ॥੧॥

guramukhi sukh dhalu alakhu|akhaaiaa ॥1॥

The gurmukhs had the glimpse of imperceptible Lord who is the fruit of delights

This is my only post.

Im sorry but i could not resist.

[tuhintuhin]

Guru Nanak Sahib got mool manter upto Gurparsad from Akaal Purkh ji in veiin nadi. Then Guru Nanak Sahib added last panktis concluding the mool manter with his name, like writers put their name at the end of poetry.

Now thing is we got manter from Guru Nanak Sahib, hense it is upto "nanak hosi bhi sach"

From Giani Thakur Singh ji Patialewale

[scali]

As per Nanaksar Maryada Mool Mantar is till "Nanak hosi Bi Sach"

Baba Nand Singh Says How can you reach Whaeguru by leaving Satguru Nanak Out of Mool mantar.

In Gurbani (Asa Di //, Sukhmani Sahib) Satguru is the medium between Whaeguru. Satguru is euologised in Gurbani as much as Whaeguru.

Baba Nand Singh by far is the most sense than any other source.