Pakhandi Neeldharis Doing Hindu Style Aarti In Front Of Sggsj

[N30S1NGH]

When Guru's were in deh form, sikhs(devotee's) used to do arti of sri guru maharaj, it's a form of respect maharaja's in indian tradition but guru maharaj being majesty kings of kings more you do sharda less there is since guru gobind singh ji gave gurghaddi to sri guru granth sahib ji, sharda of hazoori sikhs (sikhs from hazoor sahib) have not changed, it's still same... still sikhs do arti of sri guru granth sahib ji maharaj, because final guru- sri guru granth sahib ji and with pyar and sharda throw flowers at sri guru granth sahib ji. giving royal treatement to sri guru granth sahib..

This has nothing to do with idol worship/hindu ritual(parnoia) if someone ignorant one doesnt get the concept of "arti" which is meant for only kings, true kings- in this case- sri guru granth sahib ji, then its not the fault of ritual, its a fault of tunnel minded thinking.

[B4ND4]

When Guru's were in deh form, sikhs(devotee's) used to do arti of sri guru maharaj

References please...

[N30S1NGH]

arti-arta ceremony is outer reflection of one's sharda, pyaar inside just like how chaur seva is outer reflection of one's sharda and pyaar towards sri guru maharaj ji.

also before we go any further, please re-read tirath singh nirmala post very very carefully. he already covered this part.

Allow me to quote tirath singh nirmala regarding arti-arta ceremony, gurbani has three layers of interpertation - historical(outer), inner and cosmic. You have to understand the whole wisdom of sri guru granth sahib does not revolve around english translations ie- usual sikhitothemax etc.

It's a bit long but hopefully clarifies a few things...

To my mind the evidence really weighs in favour of accepting aarti with deepa and dhoop, and instead it should be the case for those against it to state on what evidence it is to be rejected.

Taking a one particular style of interpretation based on pre-conieved assumptions of particular verses of Guru Granth Sahib alone is by itself not a way of determining what and what isn't time-honoured maryada, as I could equally justify it’s practice using the same bani (various discussions still go on to no conclusion using Guru Granth Sahib alone to define what are practical issues of maryada). Therefore we must look to other sources as well.

Some things that spring to mind on this issue,

1) Guru Granth Sahib is nowadays adorned with the maryada that we see in texts and images of how the Gurus themselves were treated (e.g. chauri sahib, gaddi, palanquin, etc). By the time of Guru Arjun Dev ji and in particular Guru Hargobind ji the Guru's darbar was functioning akin to a Maharaja's darbar as sources of both political and social decision making, coupled with spiritual influence (miripiri). Hukamnamas were issued, an army was maintained, activities of hunting with nagara occurred, in line with the activities of a traditional maharaj, etc.

It would have to be a very specific distaste based on a very specific conceptual problem with the aarti ceremony of honouring a maharaj that would cause its rejection by Guru ji (and as such would be expected to appear in texts of the time) yet allowing for open maintenance of other aspects of traditional darbar maryada. There would have to have been something particularly disliked about for it not to have been performed, and as such one would expect such a particular dislike stipulated in guidance given by early quasi-rehitnamay.

An alternative explanation for all this is to a) to interpret Guru ji's bani as rejecting any possible form of symbollic practice, therefore b) assume Guru ji would not perform such ceremonies along with any other form of symbolic practice c) ignore historical accounts of such practices as a perversion of tradition by brahmins/hindus d) conclude that it is to be read alone not performed.

2) Bhai Gurdas' varan aim at setting out what is expected of the Sikh in daily practice, and it is clear that aarti is to be performed separately from sohilla (in other words, the wording denotes two separate things, not one). The question that arises here is which aarti? What is interesting here is that the earliest commentary I have seen on it is Swami Anandaghun Udasi (who later was responded to by Baba Santokh Singh in Garabganjani Steek), in which the aarti he adds commentary to is much shorter and (if my memory serves me well) is only Guru Nanak Dev ji's opening bani. I presume this is the section that is being referred to by Bhai Gurdas. How and when the varying shabds were collated together in practice, I don't know. The issue here is the same as that for the dasam bani section of Rehras Sahib. There is an issue as to who the focus is of the aarti recorded at this time. Was it to be part of darbar maryada and hence accorded to the Adi Granth Sahib as it stood then? These are questions I have yet no answer for. I have seen in traditional guru-puja for the disciple to initially perform the aarti verses to the Guru, and then if appropriate for the Guru to lead the aarti of the ishtdev.

3) Lets be absolutely clear on the Hazoor Sahib maryada here. In the recent video of aarti performed by the sevadar at the takhat, he holds it still (adorned with both ghee jot and camphor jot in elaborate deepa lamps on a thal) for the first few sections of the bani and then (after ‘sankhan ki…’ possibly) proceeds to wave it in circular motions toward Guru Granth Sahib and then moves and does the same of Dasam Granth Sahib. I saw the Patna Sahib aarti ceremony this summer, and this is toward the portrait and shaster of the Guru rather than Guru Granth Sahib and Dasam Granth Sahib. A conical aarti stand (with many deepas) on a thaal is used here and again moved in a circular motion. Having spoken with Mahant Tirath Singh he clarified that ALL sewapanthi institutions are expected to perform aarti with deepa, dhoop and shank. The recording I have of Guruwara Sis Ganj performs aarti with shank and phoolan, although no deepas.

4) As I stated earlier, the fact that all traditional orders, all traditional institutions, and traditional maryadas proceeding the Lahore Singh Sabha movement support this practice makes it a task for others to disprove its traditional role prior to the reforms. Apart from the Nirankaris I can’t think of anyone else who had rejected its practice (perhaps someone can add more). Furthermore, considering the differences between geographically diverse historical institutions and orders, it is surprising the consistency of the practice considering the diversity in other practices.

5) There is a secondary issue of the doctrinal assumptions that arise from exegesis of the meaning of the aarti bani. It is clear that nowhere does it state that aarti is not to be performed, it is instead investing the ceremony with cosmological significance. This is entirely concordant with the teachings of Sikhi, and furthermore that the practice of aarti is given a non-dualist angle in this composition. This is a common theme in Guruji's bani of pointing to the inner meaning of spiritual practices. In Japuji Sahib, Guru ji states that 'Mundaa santokh saram put jholi', pointing to the internalisation of the garments of a sadhu. The same arises within the teaching on the inner meanings of the practice of namaaz. Is Guru ji actually stating it should not be performed, or is he stating that one should invest it with deeper meaning as a means of internalising spiritual symbols? If he rejected any form of religious symbolism whatsoever, and that everything should have a purely functional purpose that would make key everyday practices in Sikhi redundant. If one accepts the 'ek jot' Guru philosophy then this thinking creates a conflict as there is no possible explanation for how symbolic practices have been instituted (and seemingly rejected) by the same jot.

[Matheen]

There are a few pictures of aarti with a thaal being done to Maharajas pre 1947. Also, in some parts of India, wives do the same for their husbands....

[N30S1NGH]

When Guru's were in deh form, sikhs(devotee's) used to do arti of sri guru maharaj

References please...

look into soraj parkash granth / panth parkash

[GABROO KHALISTAN DAH]

retarted. aarti is dumb for sikhs..how is fire showing respect?? can any one answer that? From a Sikh perspective please.

Aarti is part of the Hindu religion, and their due right to perform it. but it has no place in sikhi, and should not be done to maharaaj.

It seems to be a small sect who like to be doing th is, or who like to protect this practice.

[kam1825]

i think you belong to the small sect that do not like doing this.

The sampardas of the nihangs, nirmalas, sewapanthis, udasis and at the places of sri guru gobind singh ji Aarti is performed. i believe this is the greater majority of the Sikhs.

If you read gurbilas patshahi 6, Sri Sooraj Prakash and Panth Parkash you will see that the Guru's had aarti performed to them. if you need a copy of the sri sooraj prakash then you can find it on www.ik13.com

Another thing what about all the other numerous gurdwaras that perform the aarti aarta paath daily and thrown flowers in the direction of Guru Sahib and spray rose water in the divan. You can see this in all of the Nanaksar Samparda. Should this be stopped as i am sure you will find some reason to say it it froma cult or from some sort of hindu tradition!

[GABROO KHALISTAN DAH]

i have b'n to nanaksaar gurdwaras since i was little, india here england........never once have i c'n what you are saying.

there just is no need for arti..................i do not understand why you r so strict upon it...........those sects you mentioned besides the Nihungs are exactly that sects, facist breakaways.

Nihung Singhs on the most part are the same as "mainstreem" sikhs.....cept they practice weaponary and bani more.

for christs sake................aarti common what next??? we use a flame thrower?

[chatanga]

flame thrower, lol, i like that one.

ive never been a fan of arti with the fire. once me go to the Bhagat Ravidas Gurdwara in wolves and they said everyone stand for arti. people took thaaland started throeing it around. To make it worse we had to stand the whole time, and there were many people who were sick of standing for the 30 mins it took to complete it. me included.

personally , i think that the shabad of arti is enough devotion to Akal Parmeshwar, and no waving a thali around can add to it. i have never seen the things that are described at nanaksari gurdwaras ever at Thath Darbar in Wolves.

also i think the flame throwwers are in the minority. How many gurdwaaras practice this? i only know of Hazzor Sahib, and even there i thought they were taking the peace.

[kam1825]

Ghabroo Khalistan, if you visit the Nanaksar Samadh of Baba Nand Singh Ji and Baba Ishar Singh Ji you will see the aarti. Also you live in the uk. Go to Nanakasar Thath in Wolves on a puranmashi and you will see it. Also how can you say that Nirmalas, Udasis and sewapanthis are sects like Nihangs. Not breakaways. If so Guru Gobind Singh Ji would have written them out of the panth like the ram raiyas, minas, masands.

If the nihangs are not breakaway then why do they perform aarti and the whole of hazoor sahib maryada is the same as their maryada!

Chatanga i have been to Nanaksar ever since i was a child at Wolves. i have took part in plucking the petals on the flowers for the aarti. Watch Baba Amar Singh Ji when they perform the Aarti. If not ask the sevadars!!!

Modern day jathas are the breakaways not puratan maryadas and jathas which existed at the times of the Gurus.