Khalistan Concept and Sikh Philosophy!

[bismaadh kaur]

waheguru jee ka khalsa! waheguru jee kee fateh!!

Since the topic of khalistan and Khalsa Raaj has already started I just wanted to point out a few things that I believe the whole Khalsa Panth is missing out.

Yes, it would be amazing to have out own state where we can do parchaar, and where we can be free of oppression and follow Sikhi to the fullest.

BUT...do we really deserve it?

When we say "Khalistan Zindabadh" are we really thinking about what we are saying? More than half of the peopl that I hear shouting for Khalistan are NOT amrit velah vale gursikhs (which doesn't make sense since, Gur Satgur Kah Joh Sikh Akhaya So Pul Kay Ot Har Naam Dhiyayah).

We ask for so much from GUru Jee, but what kind of commitment do we have to show for it? We want Khalsa Raaj, but if we are not spiritually capable of keeping raaj then should we really be wanting it so bad?

Look at our Sikhs today...we are fighting against eachother, trying to make our own jathay higher than the others, looking down at everyone's mistakes but our own. If we were a spiritual panth we wouldn't have to deal with these problems. So what kind of panth are we right now?? We are a panth driven by hunkaar and homay. We forget to realise who is in charge. Khalsa Raaj is NOT in our hands, nor is Khalistan (I believe someone else mentioned this).

The day that all the Gursikhs in the world get up for amrit velah and remember Waheguru Jee, is the day that we should even THINK about shouting out for Khalistan. If we can't even follow sikhi now, then who's to say that having Khalistan will make it even better. We should be strong Gursikhs now, an

d then when we are deserving of it Guru Sahib Jee will give us Khalsa Raaj.

Until we can manage our spiritual lives...we are NOT capable of keeping Khalsa Raaj.

For those who want Khalistan (which I do as well), we have to start showing Guru Sahib Jee our dedication and our faith by being the Gursikhs that Guru Sahib Jee has written in Bani.

Until all of the Khalsa Panth follows the Gursikhi Jeevan that Guru Sahib Jee has revealed to the world, we shouldn't even think about khalistan or khalsa raaj, we aren't capable of keeping it with the mentality that sikhs of the world have today.

Guru Rakha

Bhul chuck maaf karna jee...I don't mean to offend anyone...

sandeep kaur

[Khalsa4ever]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

Good point sandeep. I think that the concept was stated before, we must become khalsa before we can have Khalistan. There are so few true Singhs and Kaurs out there... and no independant country could survive on their efforts alone.

We did have a Khalsa raj for a while (Maharaja Ranjit Singh), yet we lost it partially because we lost our faith in Guru, and surrendered without cause. I don't think we will be successful in this endevour until we all get that faith back!

Waheguru!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[JSingh]

Nonihal Singh Ji, today I am little short of time and therefore cannot reply ur post, but i will soon, hopefully tomorrow, but by now I would like to say that Sikhi is a completely independent religion, and not a sect of hinduism or any other religion. Sikhism is not a rishi way of life either, because a Sikh is Two-in-One, sant-sipahi, whereas, a rishi is only a sant. There are many people disguised in fake sikh ids and keep a very close eye on Sikh Discussion Forums. This had happened to me in the past when I started receiving emails from ppl of other religions about some of my posts.

take care till then!

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

haha yeah im glad you wrote what i was thinking jsingh....

[harminder]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

I agree with Sandeep Kaur Ji,

Imagine we getting khalistan in the present state of panth and punjab.Who will be prime minister:Badal.who will be president:Tohra.who will be jathedar of akal takht:someone chosen by badal or tohra.

how many trues sikhs will punjab have:not a very good number given present state of punjab.

We need to put some thought into things before we shout "khalistan zindabad" just for the heck of it.

Yes we all have in our heart of hearts a desire for our own homeland.But just shouting it loud and doing things without getting our life on track of sikhi just shows khalistanis in bad light.I want to see a day when all shouting "khalistan zindabad" or doing anything to support this cause are at least amrithari.

And then if we say that we can be pooran gursikhs only if we have khalistan then its nothing but a lame excuse.We can have sikhi life anywhere bcos waheguru is everywhere equally.

Everything is in Gurus will if we dont have our own raaj today,may its for some purpose.Before we do or say things for khalistan lets first become khalsas.It will make more sense then.

apologies for anything said wrong.

Gurfateh

[bijli kaur]

part 1 reply

World over sikhs dont have it easy, discrimination in jobs due to visible appearance , sure many sikhs are doing well but in what proportion to the sikh population of respective settlements?, put aside token of esteem positions. overall we study for degrees go into the job market and have to settle for less, wages, positions, than our white ( or brahmin khattri if in india) counterparts,thereby living in an unequal system. the point isnt "thats reality", the point is Guru jis matt counters this gruesome system.

A khalistan ideally be based on equality where a man woman works hard for their career they should be rewarded back equally.

Media bias portrayals of sikh faith. In punjab the water is distributed free of charge to other states unchecked to what quantities? whilst water in industrial heavily populated areas areas like amritsar ludhiana are so pulluted that chemical tablets induced to treat dirty water recycled 10 times often increase the risk of side effects infections and diseases. There is no sikh punjabi panel to check how much water goes free to other states.

A khalistan is the answer than let punjabs water supply be robbed. Enough fresh clean water should be distributd all over punjab evenly for crops, home usage, sewage treatment networks not water thats been used 10 times. Then when the economy grows Guru Kirpa khalistan would be strong enough to help others and fulfill its seva for humanity, but that is impossible whilst it is being diverted to other states with just small amount to punjab by current higher authorities who are nto accountable to anybody. punjabis controlling the usage of their fair sh

are of riparian water is a vital point for thgem to be able to help others in future.

french turban banning- sikhs have to ask indian pm for help, the same party jan sangh bajrang dal that raped killed battered sikh kids women jus 19 years ago. Seems like sikhs have to battle their way in courts for everything. to wear a kara even in uk just 20 years ago.

In a khalistan a sikh and members of all religions would not be intimidated and be free to wear their kakaars and insignia, as well as a soveriegn nation would be able directly to talk to countries like france. Sikhs would not be exposed in society as a joke in every single film brainwashing the masses, they will be free. Understanding of a sikh country would then enable the rest of the world to grasp what and who a sikh is.

In punjab the ex chief minister a bjp rep in a sikh dastaar " badal" has been investigated by the Punjab Vigilence Buraeu for several months and filed a charge sheet siphoned off $17 million dollars in his seat in just 5 years of power. $17 million is 784 million indian rupees of hard earned cash sweat and labour of taxes punjabis payed to better their lives has gone into private pockets. Badal holdings jointly are worth $1 billion this area of his assets have yet to be investigated. Imagine where that money could have gone to better punjab compared to sikhs migrating from punjab now.

Punjabis are sweating and toiling like slaves in a corrupt system. A Punjabi Raaj in the past from the era of Gurbaksh Singh and Maharaja Ranjit Singh transfered democracy where the poor were oppressed were distributed land for their betterment, more dmeocractic power was allotted to individuals this is the true sign of a khalsa which equals sovereign.

Punjab requires urgent development in education why does the state gov instead allot punjabs surplas of taxation treasury to chandigarh? whos toiled for it? Punjabis are not recieving fully the benefits of education, if punjabis had

a nation of 20 million of their own , a daswand contribution from each family combined with profits and loans from reputable industrial trade already existing in punjab such as scrap metals conversions, leathers, machine parts distributions, grains, cotton mill productions, imported en mass to western economies could be enough to provide education free for all of punjab which would then take punjabis to new heights in research and devlopment of their own as well as creating jobs and new sectors in different fields. The problem at the moment is punjabs taxes are not even always going back to punjabis when their not lined up in private coffers but sent to neighbouring chandigarh. The sweat and labour of a singh in amritsar value in monetary tax is handed on a plate free as a grant in chandigarh.

The banking system need to be in responsible hands for development aid, loans, for setting up bussinesses but without loan shark rates. the current banking system of the western world is keeping humanity in the west enslaved through paying back double what you borrow to buy a house. thats extornionate and keeps a human enslaved much of their lifespan just paying back interest rates. Loan shark rates in punjab are prevelant, muslims have loans based on their religious doctrines in many countries which are far more fairer to their people. Maybe a common punjabi treasury should manage this sector and not privatise to prevent high rates, and encourage growth at collective level and hold its accounts public for the community. Maybe the dream of fair play in politics is not real at this moment which again is answred only if sikhs actually follow their faith collectively en masse and produce spiritual leaders in whos hands power can be entrusted.

[bijli kaur]

part 2 reply

19841985 1990s raids genocides on sikhs speak volumes themselves on the need for a homeland that needs to be run by sikhs to ensure their safety. Sikhs do not need to proove this "seperate identity" tag as a primary reason for khalistan just look back to modern history thats more than enough evidence. That homeland may be in future a sikh homeland but what it means by that is a country run by sikhs to ensure their own survival, of course it doesnt mean kick the hindu punjabis out who are just as punjabi as anyone else . But sikhs need political power.

The answer to all these manifest problems is a khalistan.

To all my veerjis and bhenjis who are into khalistan and not yet into sikhi too much, dont worry, keep up ur strentgh dont loose sight of your convictions, its people like you who have so much to say to this world and make a stand where lazy people like me fail. Its good you have come this far, at the khalsa humans rights archives in holy bones leicster where i checked a stand displaying profiles of shaheeds out of 2000 odd profiles from 350 to 400 were monai veers. But coming this far and walking forward requires us to become sikhs practically of the Guru for a Gurus gurmat system to be estabished in punjab politically. All the problems stated above including corruption of the punjabi community such as films, drugs, dating, affairs, caste which is very prevelant in punjab sikhi is the need of the day. We can go as far as fighting for a khalistan but we each need the ideals to carry that onto the political platform for a strong united community. For punjab to be sufficient each one of us need to become God orientated people and raise sai

ntly children and train them into politics not for selfishness but for the betterment of the panth so they may one day network with each other at higher levels to ensure the governance of their land and community doesnt become corrupt and avoids the "rat race " or "sole kingships".

the case of khalistan is there as more and more sikhs wake up to slavery. I read the first article on this thread and noticed how the author made it a pivot point that the basic reason of khalistan is based on seperate identity, that reason is very minute compared to the wrongdoings which sikhs have had to endure sikhs do not need to proove seperatness that itself makes sikhs look like their jumping on a superiority bandwagon when that is not the case. The article which charges "khalistani terrorism" in that article has ignored " indian state terrorism"which triggered off all reflexes and genocide of what we know as 250 000 calculated genocide of innocent sikh men women children in a systemtical manner , but other estimates put the toll at 1.2 million. There is no hard fast way to record a genocide in a large third world country where the authoritiesare not willing to help. The article is very one sided sure there may have been a few triggerhappy individuals but by and large it was sikhs who suffered 2 decade long pogroms that drove them to demand a khalistan. When army generals circulate data that all amritdharis are dangerous and must be killed does that not amount to state terrorism to hunt a person because of their faith? why did the first article miss that?

finally khalistan is not a simple "sikh v hindu " issue. Sure it would be opposed by many non punjabis outside punjab who majority happen to be classified on state register hindus, but then again the term "hindu" is very vague in a religious sense. My hindu friend returned from ludhiana and told me how the police randomly picked up a guy and demanded pay backs to free him of 3 lakh.

Within 6 hours the father of the boy called a panchayat and

raised over 7000 demonstrators to free his son and gheroed the station, on the way they exposed what the police were doing in the chowla bazaar sector which gathered momentum. (this incident occured in 2001)To avoid further exposure the police had to free the son. The mood for over 3 weeks remained " raaj karega khalsa" along the civil lines area of ludhiana many of the demonstartors included sikhs and hindu punjabis alike. This is no longer 1984 where congressi elements seperate and engineer divides. People of punjab are suffereing regardless from corruption, job losses, police heavy handedness etc. my friends own relatives were telling her how only a khalsa raaj can sort out the mess punjab is facing because they are fed up of being robbed in high taxes, police harrassment etc. Imagine that coming from a hindu inside punjab! Then her relatives one of whom is a bank worker was invited to poone district for a bankers meeting, this guy had a hindu name, a hindu background, yet they taunted and mimicked his accent because he was punjabi and throwing sardar jokes at him all because hes punjabi. they seem to have thought all punjabis are offsprings of sardars.

Thats just 2 hindu punjabis i know of who support the litany raj karega khalsa there mayb b many more . The reality of khalistan issue in terms of religious boundaries has changed from the 80s, at that time state sponsorted terrorism ensured nobody heard the sikhs voice and made sikhs look like they were anti hindu. As time goes on punjab ends up in dangerous hands corruption, this is now affecting everybody living there regardless of what religion they are and exposing more than the authorities bargained for. Asking for solutions most of the alternatives to a khalistan are just a temporary fix. the rejuvination and reality of the religio political dual establishment would be taking shape sooner or later.

The only way to prevent that is to give fair play justice to punjabis at all levels and dimensions which is not happening to this

date and i doubt will hence the call for a khalsa raaj will increase in time.Itsnothing to do with "special treatment" as the media claims but more to do with justice in every sense against a brutal corrupt regime similar to the british raj.

[bijli kaur]

if the deleted article is trieing to state sikhs are hindus then why do indian books on the subject matter ganged up with the indian state media declare sikhs in such regd as " sikh extremists "? why not hindu extremists ?

surely if they wre hindus it shud be stating logically hindu extremists who feel they are different.

Sikhi to me at least is 100% indepdant of all faiths. But for example sake as the first deleted article was trieing to suggest that sikhs are hindus therefore "no ground for a khalistan", lets just think for a moment. Ok now what? sikhs are discriminated in their own land, hunted, murdered, massacred, their culture wiped out, women raped, where are the values enshrined in democracy? where is the justice?Going by the standard "we r One" the whole world is one that doesnt mean races religions cultures are not wiped out in history as has been prooved in punjab in the last 20 years .

The UN itself has a mandate on oppressed minorities, on a moral stance sikhs have every right to ask for their land. Sikhs are no ang of hinduism, but an ang of all humanity but even if sum thinks we r that doesnt disproove the right for a sikh administered land to gaurantee the safety of sikhs, their welfare, economy, culture, language and control of their destiny when it has been ruined for the past 50 years in different hands not just for sikhs but for the whole of punjab that has been looted and robbed blind by politicians.

Dalits on official records are declared as hindus yet are subject to many things sikhs r, what does their being hindu proove? NOTHING.

If it is their wish to chalk out their own destiny that is their wish, what does this" h

indu" tag show?

Kurds are muslims their nation has been split into turkey, iran and iraq and suffer genocide, cultural and linguistic genocide human rights abuses at the hands of co religionists muslims do the kurds not have a right to chalk their own destiny as they wish or remain resigned to their grim fate with their fellow muslims ???what does their being the same religion as their oppressors proove? NOTHING

Croats and serbs were th same religion did that stop croatia forming?what did their being christian proove? NOTHING

if there is no value for human life should not humans have the right to choose their path and future? In Fact the case becomes even more stronger as one based on values that transcend religious loyalty.

In the case of sikhs it is human rights, values, protection of sikh culture, justice and development betterment of all punjabis.

Dont mistake the issue, sikhs are 100% their own they are not angs or part of hindus or muslims, the examples above show that even if they were that doesnt proove a thing when it comes to having the right to governing themselves.

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

i totally agree with everything about becoming an amritdhari sikh....however to discourage non-amritdharis from shouting and fighting for khalistan is totally wrong. The resaon for this is: for example take the Isreal and Palestinian issue. Some sikhs take the palestinian side because they feel Isreal took their land and made them into refugees. Some people side with Isreal and feel that Jews have suffered so long and a Jewish homeland is legitimate. How many of you sikhs out there taking one of these sides is Palestinian Muslim or a Jew? Did only sikhs support the Gurus, Guru gobind Singh Ji Maharaj had the help of Mulsim kings and soldiers. Guru Roop Guru Khalsa Ji is revered by people of all faiths. I am not an amritdhari sikh, but let me tell you one thing, i have great pyaar and respect for the panth. I have deep respect for Sikhi and Gurbani. I support a khalistan becuase I know the history I feel the pain of the Sikh nation. If you people are implying that only Amritdhari sikhs can feel this pain then that is the most exclusionist, elitist piece of bull i have ever heard. You know this is exactly what is wrong with our people, if some Goras in British parliament support khalistan then all the sikhs are like "Yeah that guy is the man, so and so Mr, Johnson supports khalistan he is awesome, the best minister in England, if Clinton says anything about Sikh rights, chalo ji he is mahaan, but if a non-amritdhari Sikhi respecvting individual supports khalistan then it is like, hey buddy your not even amritdhari, get lost, take amrit. I am sorry people, I am human and seeing the things which happened in Punjab to the Sikh people, would make even a stone rock cry, I a

m only human and feel for my fellow human beings. May waaheguru bless me with Sikhi saroop, but in the meantime i will continue to shout khalistan zindabaad becuase i love sikhi, i love my fellow singhs and singhniya, in my eyes you are my brothers and sisters even if for some of you I am beneath you because you are amritdhari, and i accept this, Guru roop guru khalsa ji is the panth guru and i am beneath all amritdharis..i have no ill will towards this fact, when i see or meet an amritdhari singh or singhnee i have the utmost respect becuase those people have accepted the gift given to us by Guru Gobind Singh ji maharaaj. yes i am not on your level my amritdhari brothers and sisters, but i love you and i love the panth nad i want to see the panth victorious......so please do not discourage non-amritdharis from shouting khalistan because many do have a genuine love for sikhi and the panth...khalistan is going to be a land for everyone..even for manmukh's like me, a moorakh who commits countless sins everyday stuck to manmat...my friends khalistan is justice for the innocent sikhs, i support this movemnet like any warm-blooded human being would, i support the movemnet becuase i have a heart.

panth da premi

mann

[V]

Agreed with Maan Sahib