Kirtan

[chatanga]

Kirtan is very important to perform/listen to. this we can all agree on. but who is performing the kirtan is that important as well before we decide to listen to it?

reason im asking is that some members of this forum seem to hate other sikhs namdharis etc so if a namdhari jatha was performing kirtan would it be ok to listen to or would you say i would rather not listen to namdharis doing kirtan becasue i have an issue over thier interpretation of sikhi?

i heard namdharis do kirtan and they were the best kirtanis i listened to for ages.

[Laadli Fauj]

i listen to their kirtan sometimes, i personally think they're awesome kirtanis.

[*gupt-kaur*]

:s who and where are naamdhari sikhs?

[GuruManeyoGranth]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Naamdhari do nice keertan and are very talented, but since I found out they change Bani to suit their philosophy, I've stopped listening to their keertan.

Their actions are similar to Guroo Har Rai Sahib Jee's son, Ram Rai, who Guroo Sahib refused to even see after Ram Rai changed Bani.

Waheguroo

[Singhstah]

Just kan rass, true rass of keertan comes from listening to people with a jeevan.

Namdharis are on a self-destructive path for believing someone else is higher than Guroo Granth Sahib Ji.

Not only listening, but the matter of being in the sangat of them is also wrong.

[Sarbloh]

The question is not their ablilty to perform kirtan in authentic raags but their association to a dynasty of Ram Singh's descendents who falsely claim a direct lineage of Guruship back to Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

There are some serious distortions of historical events, cover ups, conspiracy theories, far fetched stories created in order to justify this dynasty’s authenticity and claims. They have even gone as far as to have dropped Guru Nanak’s name from “Nanak Naam Chardi Kala Tere Bhanay Sarbat Da Bhalla” to “Satguru Ram Singh Chardi Kala Tere Bhanay Sarbat Da Bhala”. Claims that Guru Gobind Singh Maharaj hid for almost 200 years away from his Sikhs and then mysteriously ended up in a place called Hazaro, West Punjab, where he passed the Guruship to one Balak Singh or that Guru Gobind Singh never initiated women into the Panth. There are many other far fetched claims. Much of which is pretty insulting, hurtful and as close to nindya of our Panth Khalsa as one can get.

Now I personally practice a disassociation with namdharis based on the above. I do not doubt their ability to perform raag or their pyar for Shabad Gurbani. But I do have a grievance with their claims of Guruship and for that reason I personally minimise my sangat with them.

I would also like to direct the sangats attention to the following Hukumnama issued by Sri Akal Takht Sahib:

A HUKUMNAMA REGARDING NAAMDHARI and other DEHDHARI Groups.

Maata No: 13, passed by 5 Singh Sahibaan on 24th October 2000 at Sri Akal Takht Sahib, Amritsar, Punjab.

In relation to Namdharis and Kirtan in Gurdwara Sahibs, 5 Singh Sahibaan agreed that those who do not believe in the 10 Gurus and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as their salvation, and instead believe in Dehdhari Gurus and Devi Devte cannot be permitted to do Kirtan in Gurdwara Sahibs.

Jathedar Joginder Singh Vendanti

[Super_Singhni]

Listen to these guys! :s

http://www.keertan.org/andromeda.php?q=f&a...t%20Singh%20Jee

[chatanga]

this thread isnt just about namdharis. but aimed at people who have a dislike , rational or irrational for other groups who's view of Sikhi duz not correspond wiv thier own. namdhari's is just one example. what about the other groups within sikhi who people take a dsilike to some of thier practices, etc like the akj , or the nihangs.

would you stay out of sangat just cos their is a jhatkae singh doing kirtan , if you are a vegetarion ? or if you saw that these singhs were preparing sukh nidhaan 1 hour before? What if Nihang Niddar Singh wanted to do a rainsbhai in your local gurdwara? would you attend or think " no he is not a veggie..."

this is not against a particular group but i want replies from people who have issues against some of the practices of other group, which they find is not in keeping with their own view of sikhi, and how much interaction they would be involved with for gurmat events .

this isnt about namdharis in particular, i just used that as an example.

[Sarbloh]

this thread isnt just about namdharis. but aimed at people who have a dislike , rational or irrational for other groups who's view of Sikhi duz not correspond wiv thier own. namdhari's is just one example. what about the other groups within sikhi who people take a dsilike to some of thier practices, etc like the akj , or the nihangs.

would you stay out of sangat just cos their is a jhatkae singh doing kirtan , if you are a vegetarion ? or if you saw that these singhs were preparing sukh nidhaan 1 hour before? What if Nihang Niddar Singh wanted to do a rainsbhai in your local gurdwara? would you attend or think " no he is not a veggie..."

this is not against a particular group but i want replies from people who have issues against some of the practices of other group, which they find is not in keeping with their own view of sikhi, and how much interaction they would be involved with for gurmat events .

this isnt about namdharis in particular, i just used that as an example.

I have tried to explain my reasoning for having a greivance with someone performing keertan or katha. In this instance I feel Sri Akal Takht has given some guidance on who should perform keertan within Gurdwara Sahibs in Maata 13 mentioned above.

In my view difference in opinions are acceptable to the point of the willingness to accept the 10 Gurus and Guru Granth Sahib Ji as salvation regardless of what state the individual is in their Sikhi journey. Differences in opinions are all part of the journey but there needs to be a common bond of an acceptance of Guruship.

[Vaheguru24/7]

Vaheguru jee ka khalsa vaheguru jee kee fateh!

I will probably cause problems by saying this, but I was having a similar conversation to this with someone I know recently so I am posting my views. Just my views - I could be very wrong.

I try not to refuse to listen to keertan on the basis of the keertanis jeevan because I don't feel that I have the right to judge anyone else. They are singing the praises of Maharaaj, so I just try to focus on that. (Doesn't always work - I once walked out of Darbaar Sahib when a Gursikh who I have issues with did keertan).

However, I know that Gursikhs come to Gurdwara to get laha from keertan and that the benefits are 100x better when a jeevan vala Gursikh is singing keertan. For that I reason, I refuse personally to do keertan in sangat. I try not to judge anyone else , but I can judge my own state of sikhi and it is nowhere near a jeevan vala Gursikh.

I guess it depends on WHY we are listening to keertan. If we are listening to Maharaaj's pavitar bani, it's fine, but if we are listening to a PERSON and a TUNE, then it's probably not right.

Just my views. Probably all wrong.....

Vaheguru jee ka khalsa vaheguru jee kee fateh!