Gurudwara Discrimination Against Caste

[JarnailS]

I fail to see the real benefit of commiting people to the kaur/singh post-fixes within their names if there is no advise to encourage that person to take on a Gursikh lifestyle. Without the reni beni the Singh/Kaur name is just a word added to a name. Would you consider someone like Narinder Kaur of Big Brother fame an example of a Sikh because she keeps Kaur in her name? Or the many Singhs who have the wonderful post fix in their name, yet down a bottle of whiskey every night?

wjkk wjkf

veer ji, i am NOT agree with your.... i have been to over 30-40 wedding (may be more) and every time after the wedding, the bahi sahib at gurughar gives some important lessons to the couple. have you listened to these lessons? now you tell me whos responsibility is to remember what that bhai sahib said or even what our guru ji said? none of then ever said that go and have a shot, go to pub, cut your hair, do anything and everything that a sikh must not do. BUT still we do them, dont we???

no one from any gurughar will come down your house every night and check if you have a bottle of whisky opened or not? its down you the individual to remember that wisky is not allowed in sikhism and thats what the lesson was from both bhai sahib and guru ji.

hope you get my point.

bhul chuk maaf karni.

wjkk wjkf

[orono]

I think everyone has gone off on a tangent. It's clear that this Gurdwara is showing a caste discrimination. Is this not contrary to what the Gurdwaras should be teaching, let's not get into the state of Gurdwaras today, in an ideal world, should we not be breaking te caste barriers down again which have risen their ugly heads once again?

I agree Anand Karaj should be for Sikhs, but it shouldn't be restricted to caste distinctions, as this is wrong, is it not?

Ask yourselves this, does caste have a place in Sikhi? That will then help Bhaji with what he is asking.

[4givme4mysins]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Bhai sahib jaipal used the word gursikh to describe themselves, a gur sikh translates into "guru da sikh" i.e. guru granth sahib ji is your guru and you are his sikhs, if this is what you believe then accept the hukam that was laid down by guru gobind singh and only accept the title of singh and kaur. You have stated that it is wrong for the gurdwara sevadar to judge you on your names rather than your deeds, changing your title is a deed and an action that shows you follow the way of the sikh gurus i.e. the khalsa panth.

Gurfateh Ji

[rupinder singh]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

changing your title is a deed and an action that shows you follow the way of the sikh gurus i.e. the khalsa panth.

changing a title on it's own can also be easily exploited. If people adopt Singh and Kaur as names to simply have a wedding and then carry on with their jeevans as normal, then we are not promoting anything valuable. Wouldnt it be more beneficial to get the couple to commit to pandya di sewa or participate in making langar for several weeks leading to the Anand Karaj. Or get them to sit with a Granthi and learn Jap Ji Sahib. Surely these are better actions than changing your title in deed poll.

Also, making people put Singh and Kaur in their names will only make it a middle name. Surnames will still hold precedent and you will find most people wont even use the Singh or Kaur on official documentation. All in all I am not sure any respect for the Singh/Kaur name would be promoted by pushing people to use them, the effect could be adverse.

Anyway, back to original post. I do think the Gurdwara committee have a responsiblity to encourage Sikh values within the couple, but I dont think the forced use of Singh/Kaur in the name is really going to add any value.

[4givme4mysins]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Bhai sahib good points made, and i agree the foundations of sikhi are important such as seva simran. But i also believe keeping the sole surname as kaur or singh is the hukam of guru gobind singh which should not be taken lightly, for example i use the khalsa greeting whenever i speak to a gursikh or do sikhi vichaar, it doesnt make you a sikh or a good sikh if you use the khalsa greeting but it is good practice.

Gurfateh Ji

[Gurbar Akaal]

Does keeping Singh & Kaur in the name apply to all Amrithdaris and Sehajdharis / non Keshdharis alike?

[rupinder singh]

But i also believe keeping the sole surname as kaur or singh is the hukam of guru gobind singh which should not be taken lightly

The sole hukam of Guru Gobind Singh Maharaj was that we all take Khande Da Phaul and become tyar bar tyar not just keep Singh and Kaur as names. I think promoting just an adoption of the singh/kaur as a surname will be interpretted by some as an easy option of being a sikh. Just like wearing a kara does not fastrack anyone to Sikhi, the same applies to just keeping Singh or Kaur in your name.

[4givme4mysins]

But i also believe keeping the sole surname as kaur or singh is the hukam of guru gobind singh which should not be taken lightly

The sole hukam of Guru Gobind Singh Maharaj was that we all take Khande Da Phaul and become tyar bar tyar not just keep Singh and Kaur as names. I think promoting just an adoption of the singh/kaur as a surname will be interpretted by some as an easy option of being a sikh. Just like wearing a kara does not fastrack anyone to Sikhi, the same applies to just keeping Singh or Kaur in your name.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Bhai Sahib ji i think you misunderstood what i meant, i didnt mean only accepting the title of singh and kaur obviously we should try to follow everything the Guru sahibs have told us, keeping surnames of singh or kaur helps us in so many ways such as hiding the filthy castes associated with them, accepting that we belong to the family of Guru Gobind Singh. The Surnames people keep have not been given to us by the Guru sahibs so why attach ourselves to them?

Gurfateh Ji

[High Spirits]

I agree with the Gurdwara policy and the premi's who have posted on this topic that if you call yourself a 'Gursikh' (I think my friend should research the term Gursikh because its not to be used so loosly) but don't accept that you must atleast have Singh and Kaur in your name (aswell as living the life of a Sikh), then your lieing to yourself and others by calling yourself a Sikh.

Another point, you keep on stating that your wife is also a 'Gursikh' but on the other hand your stating she is a 'Ravidassian,' so what is she then? Is she a Sikh? Because if she is then she's not a 'Ravidassian'

Also I feel couples want an Anand Karaj (because its something they have to do), without even knowing what the Anand Karaj ceremony actually means and its significance in a Sikhs life.

Are you sure your partner is a Sikh and not a Ravidassian? And do you know what the Anand Karaj is about and who Satguru Sahib Sri Guroo Granth Sahib jee Maharaaj is to you?

If your offended then I'm sorry, but these are basic Sikh principles

[JustME]

Another point, you keep on stating that your wife is also a 'Gursikh' but on the other hand your stating she is a 'Ravidassian,' so what is she then? Is she a Sikh? Because if she is then she's not a 'Ravidassian'

Also I feel couples want an Anand Karaj (because its something they have to do), without even knowing what the Anand Karaj ceremony actually means and its significance in a Sikhs life.

Are you sure your partner is a Sikh and not a Ravidassian? And do you know what the Anand Karaj is about and who Satguru Sahib Sri Guroo Granth Sahib jee Maharaaj is to you?

If your offended then I'm sorry, but these are basic Sikh principles

im sorry to say but i have to agree with the statement made above, we complain about being stereo-typed as castes but tat the same time we allow ourselves to be defined by them...........you cannot not be a Gursikh AND a Ravidassian............

Ive got the best soultion............u and ur partner both take Kandeh Paul da Amrit and become TRUE GURSIKHS and apply all of Guru Jee teachings to your jeevans and then there are no problems hanna? If you consider yourselves True Gursikhs, im sure the next logical step is to take amrit hanna?

Gud Luck Jio and Bhul Chuck Maafi

:s