Sikhnet Fallacy

[JSingh]

I have read this one reply posted on 3/11/2004. A girl who considers herself a Sikh and want to marry a muslim. The moderator does NOT have the gutts to say that Sikhs are not allowed to marry Sikhs. As I have posted one of my replies in another thread on this topic in response to DKK's reply. Sikhnet folks are misleading people. Once again, scroll down and read the bold. Sikhnet is getting Sicknet day by day... Is there anything we can do? Why not we do something as a group????? so that these sikhnet ppl stop misleading ppl??? I am hoping replies from sikhsangat so that we can write something to sikhnet folks. I still have not heard anything from sikhnet about my post. Its been few weeks. anyway, read it:

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ke fateh...

I am a 19 year old sikh woman and i do consider myself to be religious. I follow things which i understand and believe is right such as doing my paat going to the gurdwara and doing sewa etc, although i do cut my hair. I have been with my boyfriend for 1 and a half years and he is muslim. Our relationship has been an on-off relationship because of the hassles we get for having different beliefs and choosing different ways of praying. He has never not once asked me to convert to his religion and tells me he appreciates the way i believe some things so strongly about my religion.

The problem is we just got engaged a month ago and i don't know if i should go through with the marriage or if my religion will allow me to? So many people are against us being together just because we hold different beliefs...especially my family. I hate lieing to my family but i feel as though im forced to do so when it comes to him.

I love him so much i feel like im torn between him and the rest of the world. What i don't understand is that out guru's made it so clear that we are all equal in God's eyes.So why can't sikhs and muslims still not be seen as equal in everyone's eyes?

We don't want to marry until another three years and i am upsetting him and myself by worrying sick about whether my guru would allow this to happen or not. Could you please advise me in whether or not it is actually allowed-marrying a muslim-or not. Would anyone be willing to marry us in a gurdwara because that is the only place i would ever want to get married. Is there anyone i could directly speak to in London or Southampton about gettin married to a muslim in a gurdwara?

Thankyou so much for your time...

----

Take the emotions out of your decision. Sit down with your self and think about what is really important to you in relation to your religion and marriage. For example, does it matter to you that you and your husband will not pray together? Does it matter to you that you will celebrate different holidays? How will you raise the children? Love is more than attraction and "chemistry" between two people. After you have thoroughly thought this out, discuss it all with your fiance. How does he feel about these things? I'm not saying that you can't work these things out, but its better to discuss it now before you marry. Don't be in an illusion. The decision you make will be with you for your life. Conflict erases love faster than anything. If you can work it out, go to one of the Gurdwaras in London and ask if you can be married there. Don't base your decision on what others think, but you must be realistic and practicle. Blessings, GTKK

http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/youth.nsf/b...5400531fc0?Open

[JSingh]

I repeated again to Sikhnet:

------------------------------------------------

Dear Respected Sikhnet Moderators,

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

First of all, I would like to thank you all for doing such a wonderful job at Sikhnet Youth Forum. Today as I was reading the queastions, I cam accross the follwoing, posted on 3/11/2004 at http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/youth.nsf/b...5400531fc0?Open

GTKK wrote made the following statement in his reply above: "If you can work it out, go to one of the Gurdwaras in London and ask if you can be married there."

I have already submitted the post regarding DKK Ji's reply on a similar matter. But Sikhnet still has not posted it yet, not I have heard anything about it. I don't want to repeat myself, but all I would like to say that Sikhi does not allow Sikh marry a non-sikh. A Sikh cannot marry a non-sikh. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji said in his bachan number 38 of 52 bachans that “Do not give your daughter’s hand to a clean-shaven”, and while explaining this bachan, Guru Ji further said, “Give her hand in a house where Akal Purukh’s Sikhi exist, where the household is not in debt, is of a good nature, is disciplined and knowledgable.” Same applies to the man too.

Now it is amazing that Sikhnet Moderators are giving replies that are totally agains Sikhism. Just think about it why a Sikh is not allowed to marry a non-sikh. A common sense would work the best. Just think aboutit. It there is still any doubt, please say so. We would go into details. Akali Phoola Singh Ji and Mahar

aja Ranjit Singhs were two well known personalities in Sikh History. Lets look at the follwoing incidence:

When Maharaja Ranjit Singh married to a Muslim woman, named Moran of Lahore, Akali Phula Singh, as he was the Jathedar of Akal Takth declared that Maharaja Ranjit Singh is not a Sikh anymore and is a Tankhaiya which means out of Sikhism. He ordered the defendant to be at Golden Temple before the sangat. Maharaja Ranjit Singh came and admitted that he had made a mistake. Akali Phula Singh ordered him 50 lashes for Maharaja Ranjit Singh right there. Ranjit Singh took off his shirt and bowed down to receive his punishment, at such Akali Phula Singh asked the Sadh Sangat to forgive the Maharaja who has bowed down in front of the Sadh Sangat for this mistake. And thus Maharaja was pardoned, but not before he promised that he will not marry again.

At the end, this is my humble request to Sikhnet Moderators that please be careful while replies to such questions and please please please try to see first what Sikhi has to say about it.

please forgive me if i have offended anyone.

bhul chuk di khima...

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

kMinAw dyvY isK ko lyvY nih ikCu dwm ] soeI myrw isK hY phucy gur ky Dwm ] 25]

"Guru Gobind Singh ji is saying that the Sikh that marry’s his daughter to a Sikh and does not take any money, he is a true Sikh of mine and will reach my abode in Sachkand."

(Bhai Sahib Singh Rehatnama p.160)

ive seen some wierd stuuf on that site as well

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[JSingh]

there is a alot good stuff there, but at the same time, there are few replies that do not reflect Sikh View. We constantly need to write them back. Nobody is perfect, but if they still keep giving misleading replies, somthing has to be done. I am damn serious.

[Pheena]

From what i have read from you folks, that one is only considered a Sikh ONLY if he/she has taken Amrit.

Now from what she has written she hasn't taken Amrit, then she is not a Sikh therefore it doesn't matter who she marries right?? because that Hukam only applies to Sikhs or does it still apply to those who are not or have the potential of being a Sikh?

OR

Is it so that ONLY a Sikh can marry infront of the Guru, if that is so, then ignore my above question. And according to that, She has no religion so therefore there is no need to worry about someone who isn't a sikh because she can't marry in front of the guru, but im sure it will still happen and if it does, it won't be real because she isn't a sikh???

Clear my doubts please. @

Waheguru.

[JSingh]

Daer bhaji/bhainji Pheena Ji, thank you for asking these questions. I would try to talk about them as I came see them or happened to see them:

From what i have read from you folks, that one is only considered a Sikh ONLY if he/she has taken Amrit.

There is no doubt about it. There is a Bhaji Gurdas Ji's shabad that says that only he/she has the right to call him/herself a Sikh has taken Gurmatr from the Guru. As Sikhs, Gurmantr is given to us by 5 payare, and therefore, we have to take Amrit. That is Bhai Gurdas Ji's definition of a Sikh.

Now from what she has written she hasn't taken Amrit, then she is not a Sikh therefore it doesn't matter who she marries right?? because that Hukam only applies to Sikhs or does it still apply to those who are not or have the potential of being a Sikh?

How do you know she has not taken Amrit? If she has not, why is she calling herseft a Sikh? If she wants to be a Sikh in the future, she has to take Amrit, and if she marries a muslim just becuase she has not taken amrit yet, she is creating a major obstacle in her life, punjabi vich esnu kehnde han 'aapne pairan utte aap kuhara maaarna'. How can she

tolerate her husband cutting his hair when she knows her ancestors have sacrificed their lives and accpeted their scalped be removed, but never let their hair cut. How can she tolerate her husband meating Halal (no matter what u translate it) when she knows her Guru does not allow this. Don't say it is her husband who will be doing it, not her, becuase a marriage is a union, a union between two souls and when this bond is establisted, they becomes one soul in two bodies, as described in Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. There is zameen aasman di difference in Sikhism and Islam. Totally different lifestyle and concept of God and many other countless things. No Sikh girl would ever sacrifice her faith just to marry a muslim guy if she really is a Sikh and in love with her Guru.

Is it so that ONLY a Sikh can marry infront of the Guru, if that is so, then ignore my above question. And according to that, She has no religion so therefore there is no need to worry about someone who isn't a sikh because she can't marry in front of the guru, but im sure it will still happen and if it does, it won't be real because she isn't a sikh???

Now what and who is a Sikh? It is the process of evolution, as said by bhaji Harpreet Singh Ji. As we are all trying to learn from the Guru and trying to be Sikhs, but at the same time we have to keep one thing in mind that we may not do something that would create a major obstacle in the process of evolution, in this case marrying a non-sikh. Look at it this way. Lets say, I want to be a be the fastest runner in the world. But I cannot become one in one day, right? So it is a process of evolution in this sense. But what if I willingly ask someone to chop my legs off? Then how can I become the fastest ru

nner? I think you got what I am saying. I don't know if I make a sense, but plz let me know if u dont' get what i am trying to say.

bhul chuk di khima and let me know what u think i'm sorry if i have offended anyone and plz correct me if i said something wrong.

[Vaneet Singh]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

I dont know why sikhnet guys are so adamant.....i have put one of my post here...with heading " An apology from Istanbul airport head" with the draft which we got from turkish consulate through an email.

And i tried to put the same post on sikhnet also, those guys didnt do that...

1) they said..i need to mention URL for that draft

2) It should be in the same thread ..which is 50-60 messages below

I argued with them, that am i getting some monetry benefits out of that post, i just want that sangat should know what we have achieved and in future ppl should come forward if they face the same situtation.

And i dont think that anybody will go 60 messages down to look, if that thread has any new posting.

They allowed me for new thread but asked me the URL and all the details about the persons involved without understanding that it is a draft for an email and i cant give much details.

If i want to give all the details and names, i would prefer a newspaper..i guess

[Guest mehtab]

i have posted 6 rules of gurmat according to bhai gurdas jee more than once...they return my post saying they need proof

[Saihajleen Kaur Khalsa]

@ @ :D @ :wub: @ @ @ @ @ :lol: @ @

[daughter of dasam pitha]

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa

Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Sikhnet is a very good website in a sense that they r doing parchaar of sikhi in a way that our other so called sikh organisations i.e. sgpc r unable to do. But at the same time their reply to this girl’s question is utter nonsense. GTKK’s answer basically says if you two can work out your differences with this muslim, go and marry him in Gurdwara. I like to see which London Gurdwara will allow a sikh girl to be married to a muslim in presence of Guru Granth Sahib ji. Sikhnet needs to be very careful when replying to such delicate questions by youth and should give them right answers in accordance with Gurbani. This GTKK person obviously hasn’t done any research before replying to the question.

The problem again lies with our parents as they have been unable to teach us sikhi beliefs and values and this girl who doesn’t obviously know much about sikhi is seeking answers from outside and getting wrong advice.

This is my humble request to sikhnet that please in future before you reply to any questions do some research and think what sikhi says instead of giving your personal views to sikh youth.

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!