Questions From A Young Christian

[Philip777]

My question about Jesus' childhood hasn't been answered. I couldn't find the answer in the bible.

It is argued by many that He was in India (Kashmir region) and thats where he got ridh-sidh and became Enlightened...

apparently, i've heard about writings of kashmiri's from that time about a long-haired light (brown) skin man from the middle east coming... but that i have no sources for.. jus on hearsay..

For a poor carpenter to make such a long voyage, at this time and in such a young age, letting alone the fact that it was politically very difficult to voyage out of the Roman Empire for those who lived in it, this theory seems quite strange to me. And also I think if it had been so Jesus would have mentioned it.

Anyway, to answer your question (and sorry I haven't done so before) : indeed the Gospel tells us hardly anything about Jesus between his birth and the beginning of his teaching : the only event of this period that is told is when Jesus was 12 years old (the age at which Jewish boys were introduced in the community) in the Temple. If the administrators allow me to quote a Bible passage on this forum, I'll quote this story for you, but I prefer to ask for permission first as I am on a Sikh forum.

And if nothing is mentioned, I suppose it simply means that Jesus did nothing extraordinary during his childhood. He was simply waiting until his time would come.

[Philip777]

It is certainly the Word of God

How do u figure that? As you know, humans are not without sin. So how do u know that the writings compiled in the Bible BY HUMANS were the real teachings of Jesus? Jesus never 'endorsed' the Bible... nor did he compile it... ur argument is flawed by 'blind faith' (in my opinion). Just because the apostles accepted some writings, and they wrote gospels which were input into the bible (YEARS after the 'death' of Jesus), that does not make it Gods word. Anybody could've said 'Jesus said this'. There's no way of knowing what is tru and what is not.

You said u are in search of the Truth; how can you logically think that everything in the bible IS really what Jesus said/preached? How do u know that people did not put their own writings in and proclaim them to be the teachings of Jesus? you do not. Not only that, there is no original text to compare to. That way, texts could have EASILY been tampered with over time.

You're completely right. And that's just the reason why so many Scriptures were refused.

Only the Scriptures of people who had known Jesus face to face (with one exception : Luke ; I speak of him before) were accepted, exactly for this reason. And it is clearly said the apostles wrote under the inspiration of God.

HYow do I know that the apostles didn't invent things, and put their own ideas in Jesus'mouth. Well, I don't know. I can of course say that logically, as the apostles themselves believed in Jesus, they had no reason to do it. But you're right, I have no proof of it. Coming to a certain point it's just blind faith.

Not to forget Paul, who didn't know Jesus during his life, but to whom Jesus appeared personally after his return to Heaven, and who recieved all his teachings from Jesus himself in a vision.

Where is there proof of that? Just because he said it, it makes it true? Tomorrow I could say to everybody that Guru Nanak Dev Jee appeared before me in a vision and told me to write more 'hymns' for our Scriptures, does that mean its true? no, not at all. Anybody can proclaim anything.

If I come on this forum tomorrow and tell you Jesus appeared to me this night and gave me a message especially for this forum, would you believe me ? Probably not, or anyway you would ask some kind of sign. So if just anyone claims anything, it's very improbable that people will believe him...

But now look at the case of Paul. He was known to the first Christians, and to the Jewish authorities, he wasn't a completely unknown newcomer out of nowhere : he was a Jewish Pharisee, a well-educated person. He had been the disciple of the well-known Jewish leader Gamaliel. And what's more, he was a persecutor of the Church, he had thrown hundredsw of Christians into prison, and even killed some. He was testimony of the death of Stephen, the first Christian martyr : he was watching over the mantles of his murderers while they stoned him. And he was on an official voyage, with official letters from the highest Jewish and local Roman authorities, to go to the town of Damas and kill the Christians of this town. It was on this voyage that Jesus appeared to him in a vision.

How do I know he didn't invent it ? I don't know, again I truly admit it is blind faith. But what is sure and certain is : before this voyage he was well-known as a persecutor of the Church, and after this voyage he became himself a Christian, and even a great preacher, and the first missionary, as well as the greatest of all time. It would sound very strange if he had overcome such a change only for the sake of an invention.

My faith is certainly to believe without proof, despite reason and logic, and that's even the very definition of the word "faith". But it's certainly not to believe without solid ground, against logic. I can't proove my faith is true, but I certainly can show it is perfectly rational.

Logically thinking, Jesus was an educated being. IF God willed, GOD would have made Jesus write GODS word down. Why would normal (sinful) humans be given that task to 'compile' the word of God? doesn't make any sense. The prophet (Jesus) was very able to do that task. Why did man take it upon himself to write a book and proclaim it to be the word of God?

Was Jesus very educated ? Well, what is sure is that he could read and write, because he does so in the Gospel. Certainly he knew the Old Testament very well, as a Jew who took his faith seriously. But further... Jesus was a carpenter of the small town of Nazareth. By the time, education was expensive, and only for the richest families. So no, I don't think he was a high intellectual. Anyway certainly his disciples weren't : four of them were fishers. It's believed, as Peter used a secretary (Silas, a Greek Christian) to write his letters, that he himself was an analphabet.

Anyway, the most important in Christianity is not the teaching of Jesus (not to say they aren't important, they're definitely important for our everyday life with God, but it's not by them that we are saved) : more important than what Jesus said is what he has done. Jesus has delivered all mankind from sin, by dying on the cross instead of us all. He took on himself the judgement that each one of us disearved, so that now by him we can be forgiven. That's the most important message of the Gospel. If Jesus hadn't died for us, nobody could never be saved and forgiven, but now everyone can.

That's why, under the inspiration of God's spirit, the apostles who had known Jesus have wroten the New Testament, for everyone to remember what Jesus has done.

[Philip777]

Just a random subject that come to mind:

Christian Churches and SLAVERY. This is one subject that Christians (and you could include muslims) would like to hide in the closet.

Just a few months ago , somehow for some reason I mentioned the christian hymn "Amazing Grace" in a converstaion about some subject to a couple of older Christians. They had no idea its connection to slavery of this hymn.!

Well you can't expect every Christian in the world to know everything about every single hymn that was written.

I however know the story : this hymn was written by John Newton, a slave trader, who accepted Jesus as his saviour. For a time after his conversion he remained a slave trader, but he started seeing to that the slaves under his care were treated humanely. And later and realized the horror of his trade, he left the seas and became afterwards a major opponent to this inhumn trade. And he wrote the lyrics of this song, who tell of his life as a sinner and of the grace of Jesus that saved him. You can read his whole story here : http://www.joyfulheart.com/misc/newton.htm

[lowest of the low singhni]

Thanks for replying Philip, I'm sure Admin won't mind you quoting the passage of Jesus as a 12 year old, but can you give me the reference? I'll look it up.

[apne]

Jesus died to pay for the sins of mankind, this means that the sins were paid for by Jesus. Going by definition, getting crucified for sins committed by millions, i assume population of man was not billion in 0 B.C. , is a very small punishment. I mean if it comes down to individual it gets reduced to only a minor pat on the cheek. I think it is a better arrangement, getting a pat on cheek, than spending your life in blind faith and believing in a figure that has no historical evidence.

Also Sikhism teaches that man is not born with burden of sin and if there is any it gets washed away with only having a look at our Gurus face, i.e Guru Granth Sahib. And God is in the form of sacred word, shabad, that has been revealed through our Guru. (contained in Guru Granth)

In Sikhism, life is the greatest gift given by Supreme God to us. Even various Gods, Jesus falls under this catagory, desire to have a human form. Life in Human form is a precious gift and our only chance to claim union with God. Following Gurus teaching, a Sikh gets merged with Supreme God himself/herself (God has no gender in sikhism). This way a Sikh of his Guru is higher than everything else in universe, even Jesus, Buddha, Muhammed, Vishnu, Krishna etc.

In Sikhism, a Sikh leads life, which is sacred and pure with cheerfulness. Our Guru, Guru Arjan Dev ji, said 'to play and laugh is heart of the matter' (poor transliteration, but will get the message across). So, Sikhs go on enjoying life as a precious gift of God, by chanting his name, singing his glories , praying for well being of all Mankind (Sikhs pray daily for well-being of all Human race), knowing they are merged with true Lord himself/herself.

'Amarnamah' wriiten in 1708 by Nathmal Dhadi, shortly after demise of tenth Nanak, Guru Gobind Singh, vouchsafed that "Sikhs have been granted sovereignty of both the worlds, and must retain high spirits under all circumstances"

Waheguruji ka Khalsa Waheguruji ki Fateh. ))))

[Heera Singh]

HYow do I know that the apostles didn't invent things, and put their own ideas in Jesus'mouth. Well, I don't know. I can of course say that logically, as the apostles themselves believed in Jesus, they had no reason to do it. But you're right, I have no proof of it. Coming to a certain point it's just blind faith.

its good that you can admit that.. most people would not...

Was Jesus very educated ? Well, what is sure is that he could read and write, because he does so in the Gospel. Certainly he knew the Old Testament very well, as a Jew who took his faith seriously. But further... Jesus was a carpenter of the small town of Nazareth. By the time, education was expensive, and only for the richest families. So no, I don't think he was a high intellectual.

I'm confused... don't you think Jesus as God? and isn't God all-knowing? If Jesus was truly the being you see him to be, then yes, he would know all, and would be able to write his own testament.

A question arises to my mind; If Jesus knew the Old Testament, and he followed it seriously, why the need to create a New Testament? Or, if there were things he didn't agree with in the Old Testament, being a 'God-Being', God would have ordained him to create a New Testament by His own hand, no?

[UKGupt Kaur]

Just a random subject that come to mind:

Christian Churches and SLAVERY. This is one subject that Christians (and you could include muslims) would like to hide in the closet.

Just a few months ago , somehow for some reason I mentioned the christian hymn "Amazing Grace" in a converstaion about some subject to a couple of older Christians. They had no idea its connection to slavery of this hymn.!

Well you can't expect every Christian in the world to know everything about every single hymn that was written.

I however know the story : this hymn was written by John Newton, a slave trader, who accepted Jesus as his saviour. For a time after his conversion he remained a slave trader, but he started seeing to that the slaves under his care were treated humanely. And later and realized the horror of his trade, he left the seas and became afterwards a major opponent to this inhumn trade. And he wrote the lyrics of this song, who tell of his life as a sinner and of the grace of Jesus that saved him. You can read his whole story here : http://www.joyfulheart.com/misc/newton.htm

Actually this hymn is quite famous in the church and recent too compared to the age of Christianity.

Now do "vichaar"(contemplate) on slavery and why Christian churches allowed this to continue for such a long time bearing in mind the age of Christianity and the priestly hierarchy in Christianity.

Same mentality and 'blood money' from this Churches was used for evangelical purposes throughout the world.

[Philip777]

Just a random subject that come to mind:

Christian Churches and SLAVERY. This is one subject that Christians (and you could include muslims) would like to hide in the closet.

Just a few months ago , somehow for some reason I mentioned the christian hymn "Amazing Grace" in a converstaion about some subject to a couple of older Christians. They had no idea its connection to slavery of this hymn.!

Well you can't expect every Christian in the world to know everything about every single hymn that was written.

I however know the story : this hymn was written by John Newton, a slave trader, who accepted Jesus as his saviour. For a time after his conversion he remained a slave trader, but he started seeing to that the slaves under his care were treated humanely. And later and realized the horror of his trade, he left the seas and became afterwards a major opponent to this inhumn trade. And he wrote the lyrics of this song, who tell of his life as a sinner and of the grace of Jesus that saved him. You can read his whole story here : http://www.joyfulheart.com/misc/newton.htm

Actually this hymn is quite famous in the church and recent too compared to the age of Christianity.

Now do "vichaar"(contemplate) on slavery and why Christian churches allowed this to continue for such a long time bearing in mind the age of Christianity and the priestly hierarchy in Christianity.

Same mentality and 'blood money' from this Churches was used for evangelical purposes throughout the world.

Precisely, because "churches" weren't always genuinely Christian.

[Philip777]

Was Jesus very educated ? Well, what is sure is that he could read and write, because he does so in the Gospel. Certainly he knew the Old Testament very well, as a Jew who took his faith seriously. But further... Jesus was a carpenter of the small town of Nazareth. By the time, education was expensive, and only for the richest families. So no, I don't think he was a high intellectual.

I'm confused... don't you think Jesus as God? and isn't God all-knowing? If Jesus was truly the being you see him to be, then yes, he would know all, and would be able to write his own testament.

A question arises to my mind; If Jesus knew the Old Testament, and he followed it seriously, why the need to create a New Testament? Or, if there were things he didn't agree with in the Old Testament, being a 'God-Being', God would have ordained him to create a New Testament by His own hand, no?

Yes, of course as God he was all-knowing. But as a human being, Jesus was not a high intellectual. And he didn't only speak to great thinkers, students or scientists, but for ordinary people, and he himself lived the life of nordinary people. That's all I'm saying.

And to answer your question, Jesus didn't disagree with anything in the New Testament : he came to accomplish. The whole story of the Old Testament is the announcing of a Saviour to come who would save man of his sin. And Jesus is this Saviour. The Old and New Testament aren't separate, they are a complete unity : the Old Testament announces Jesus, the New Testament tells of his coming.

Jesus would have been capable to write his own Testament, surely. But there was no need for it : the New Testament is simply the testimony of what Jesus did, by those who believed in him while he was on Earth, for those who believe in him after he left Earth.

[UKGupt Kaur]

......tell you Jesus appeared to me this night

If he does please convey my "Sat Sri Akal" to him.

To your cross/death comment I would like to share this information with you.

This month we remember Guru Arjan Dev Ji , the fifth of the ten Sikh Guru, who was tortured for 5 days.

But as Sikhs, we do not have a picture of Guru ji on a tathi tawa(hot plate) with hot sand poured over him in our Gurdwara that we pray to nor hang around our necks (nor use it to scare off "vampires" he he he sorry couldnt help myself)

Guruji courted martydoom for the sake of truth and the right of freedom of religious faith.

Guru ji did not cry out to God "why have thou forsaken me...." instead Guruji proved true what his father Guru Ram Das ji the fourth Sikh Guru said :

"...

If joy shouldst Thou grant

to Thee would I still be devoted

in suffering too on Thee would I meditate

Should it please Thee to give me hunger

Still would i feel fulfilled

And in suffering feel joy

Cutting body and person to pieces

would I make offering

And in fire immolate myself .....Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Panna(page) 757

In his unique sacrifice, Guru Arjan Dev ji gave his life but uttered not a groan because "the divine will seemed ever sweet" to him. A lesson taught to humanity by example.

This Shabad is by Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Aasaa on Pannaa 394

Awsw Gru 7 mhlw 5 ]

aasaa ghar 7 mehalaa 5 ||

Aasaa, Seventh House, Fifth Mehla:

hir kw nwmu irdY inq iDAweI ]

har kaa naam ridhai nith dhhiaaee ||

Meditate continually on the Name of the Lord within your heart.

sMgI swQI sgl qrWeI ]1]

sa(n)gee saathhee sagal tharaa(n)ee ||1||

Thus you shall save all your companions and associates. ||1||

guru myrY sMig sdw hY nwly ]

gur maerai sa(n)g sadhaa hai naalae ||

My Guru is always with me, near at hand.

ismir ismir iqsu sdw sm@wly ]1] rhwau ]

simar simar this sadhaa samhaalae ||1|| rehaao ||

Meditating, meditating in remembrance on Him, I cherish Him forever. ||1||Pause||

qyrw kIAw mITw lwgY ]

thaeraa keeaa meet(h)aa laagai ||

Your actions seem so sweet to me.

hir nwmu pdwrQu nwnku mWgY ]2]42]93]

har naam padhaarathh naanak maa(n)gai ||2||42||93||

Nanak begs for the treasure of the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||2||42||93||

http://www.searchgurbani.com/main.php?book...394&submit=