Sikhs Can't Marry Out Of Caste?

[Matheen]

What do you make of this - Guru Sahib talking to Bhai Nand Lal:

Chaupeyi

Listen, Nand Lal, this is the veracity,

Through which (I) reveal my sovereignty.(56)

All the four castes, (I) blend into one caste,

And popularise the worship of Waheguru.(57)

They will mount the horse and fly the falcon,

Seeing them as such, Turks (enemies) will flee.(58.)

(I will) make the one combat a hundred and twenty-five thousand.

The Sikh proceeding thus, (I will) get emancipated.(59)

The spears wave and the elephants are decorated,

At every door the victory drums beat.(60)

When a hundred and twenty-five thousands fire-works sparkle,

Then assume that, Khalsa has attained victory.(61)

You quote from the sarbloh site quite often - the same site that claims Niddar is the Jathedar of Budha Dal in the UK. Go ask Budha Dal what they think of that. The same site that has pictures of someone's house and claims they are pictures of Nanaksar! I could go on and on.

You are entitled to your opinions, just double check everything you read on that site (bear in mind that their main researcher got so disillusioned, he is now a Shia Muslim) or hear from the mouths of the owners.

[Guru_Da_Chella]

What do you make of this - Guru Sahib talking to Bhai Nand Lal:

Chaupeyi

Listen, Nand Lal, this is the veracity,

Through which (I) reveal my sovereignty.(56)

All the four castes, (I) blend into one caste,

And popularise the worship of Waheguru.(57)

They will mount the horse and fly the falcon,

Seeing them as such, Turks (enemies) will flee.(58.)

(I will) make the one combat a hundred and twenty-five thousand.

The Sikh proceeding thus, (I will) get emancipated.(59)

The spears wave and the elephants are decorated,

At every door the victory drums beat.(60)

When a hundred and twenty-five thousands fire-works sparkle,

Then assume that, Khalsa has attained victory.(61)

You quote from the sarbloh site quite often - the same site that claims Niddar is the Jathedar of Budha Dal in the UK. Go ask Budha Dal what they think of that. The same site that has pictures of someone's house and claims they are pictures of Nanaksar! I could go on and on.

You are entitled to your opinions, just double check everything you read on that site (bear in mind that their main researcher got so disillusioned, he is now a Shia Muslim) or hear from the mouths of the owners.

I do know about blending all varnas into one, as Bhai Gurdass Ji has said the same thing in his vaara about Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

However, I do not follow the views of westerner sikhs about castes, especially those who have not really been India for generations

[dalsingh101]

Here is an interesting translation of Prem Sumarag Granth. As far as I know the earliest reference to this granth is a partial translation by some Englishman in about 1807. The translation here is by notorious Hew McLeod of the Panjabi Prem Sumarag edition published by Randhir Singh (is this the AKJ founder?). I confess I don't know much about this granth but I think this section is of relevance to what is being discussed here.

Under a section about marriage it says:

If it so happens that one takes a wife from some other caste (jati) and they have offspring, do not pay any importance to the caste relationship whether the child be boy or girl. Why not? A bridegroom should remain free from caste contamination and the girl who he marries should be entitled to an honourable status. Though the daughter of a mixed jati union may be the daughter of a servant, she should not be denied a reputable status.

If she becomes a Khalsa regard yourself as truly fortunate. Say to yourself, 'Blessed am I that a daughter of the Khalsa is married to the son of a sinner (papi), such as I.' Take no pride in your own high and favoured status, nor in comparing it with what worldly people would regard as her lowly mixed caste status.

Having grasped this principle the father of such a girl should approach a reputable member of the Khalsa who has a son of an appropriate age and if possible reach a marriage settlement.

He who discriminates between high and low caste shall at death be delivered into the hands of Yam. Severe will be his punishment and he will be reborn as a Muslim sweeper who will spend his days picking up ordure. (lol!!!)

He who knows something about the caste of the Khalsa which the worldly would regard as disreputable, should keep it a secret.

...................

...................

If, however, any taint should attach to the boy and a group (das panj) of worthy Sikhs should forbid the marriage, do not accept their command, even if they represent the Khalsa. All Khalsa castes (baran) are pure. Proceed with the marriage between the boy and girl.

Within the Khalsa of Sri Guru Akal Purakh, no sense of separateness should be permitted. All become members of a single caste (baran) within the Khalsa.

[ghorandhar]

Veer LondonJatt, You dont need to follow any person. Follow guru maharaj and listen to Bhai Gurdas jee vara. If you dont want to follow that, then consider the soical impact the caste system has, who wants to be apart of this system? Its normally those who are at the top of ladder and who do not face as much discrimination as those below.

The caste system is the root of social evils, discrimination and inequality (esp in India). If you want to be apart of that system then you are contributing to the existence of the evils. Veer jee, I assume you have visited India and since you do not listen to the views of those generations have not been back to India, go to Punjab and ask Jatts who want to do medicine for their degree. If you do this, you will see the adverse affects the caste system has on all communities.

Just as people should not be judged on the colour of their skin, gender etc they should also not be judged by the family they were born into. Until you destory this system, descrimination and deprivation of the lower castes will always exist.

[SaRpAnCh]

what the hell has the hindi language got to do with marrying in different castes?

all i know is if ur family is set in their caste ways then out of caste marriages aren't allowed ( so much for being sikh eh?) and those who do go ahead and marry a different caste then their families dnt speak to them until x amount of years. what childishness.

its rare to find true sikhs who are not castist.

You offended are you about the hindi thing

*sum chumaari*

sum chamari London Jatt? and your talking on a topic which talks about abolishing caste LMAOOOO

[guptveer1469]

lmao i was thinking the same

btw, sarpanch i've been tryin to pm u since 6 months or so

and i can't

could you pleas pm me ur e-mail address

thanks in advance

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[dalsingh101]

A farmer? Since when did I mention I am a kisaan? I am a jatt, but that doesn't necessarily make me a practising kisaan! :rolleyes:

And what does Niddar Singh have to do with this? :6

Is suddenly everything that goes against your viewpoint somehow always linked to Niddar Singh? lol

Regardless, I will only get married into an annakhi family.

I hope your not implying that only a Jatt family is anakhi because you can meet so many proper coconut giddarh Jatt families these days with pretty boy sons who couldn't fight to save their mother's lives if it came to it. You know the type.

[SaRpAnCh]

A farmer? Since when did I mention I am a kisaan? I am a jatt, but that doesn't necessarily make me a practising kisaan! :rolleyes:

And what does Niddar Singh have to do with this? :6

Is suddenly everything that goes against your viewpoint somehow always linked to Niddar Singh? lol

Regardless, I will only get married into an annakhi family.

yOUR Niddars boy one of his looney toons

[Akal Purkh Ki Fauj]

What do you make of this - Guru Sahib talking to Bhai Nand Lal:

Chaupeyi

Listen, Nand Lal, this is the veracity,

Through which (I) reveal my sovereignty.(56)

All the four castes, (I) blend into one caste,

And popularise the worship of Waheguru.(57)

They will mount the horse and fly the falcon,

Seeing them as such, Turks (enemies) will flee.(58.)

(I will) make the one combat a hundred and twenty-five thousand.

The Sikh proceeding thus, (I will) get emancipated.(59)

The spears wave and the elephants are decorated,

At every door the victory drums beat.(60)

When a hundred and twenty-five thousands fire-works sparkle,

Then assume that, Khalsa has attained victory.(61)

You quote from the sarbloh site quite often - the same site that claims Niddar is the Jathedar of Budha Dal in the UK. Go ask Budha Dal what they think of that. The same site that has pictures of someone's house and claims they are pictures of Nanaksar! I could go on and on.

You are entitled to your opinions, just double check everything you read on that site (bear in mind that their main researcher got so disillusioned, he is now a Shia Muslim) or hear from the mouths of the owners.

I know exactly what you are talking about mate. I was there once when Giddar was showing a load of picture printouts on various objects and locations and claiming to the group that they were sikhi related objects and even going as far as telling these guys that some belonged to our Gurus (the main one a sword, KR will know what I am talkin about). Any monkey with half a brain could have seen that this gezza was pullin the wool over their eyes.

[Guru_Da_Chella]

A farmer? Since when did I mention I am a kisaan? I am a jatt, but that doesn't necessarily make me a practising kisaan! :rolleyes:

And what does Niddar Singh have to do with this? :6

Is suddenly everything that goes against your viewpoint somehow always linked to Niddar Singh? lol

Regardless, I will only get married into an annakhi family.

I hope your not implying that only a Jatt family is anakhi because you can meet so many proper coconut giddarh Jatt families these days with pretty boy sons who couldn't fight to save their mother's lives if it came to it. You know the type.

this is true, there are many messed up jatt families. And I was only talking about marrying into an annakhi family, didn't imply that non-jatt families aren't annakhi.

You on the other hand ARE singling out a caste group.