Raagi's And Kachi Bani

[Bundha]

EXAMPLE :

When we were kids mum used to feed us roti and sabazi. We would tuck into the sabazi especially the potatoes, but every now and then the sabazi would be different and instead of biting into a potato we would bite into a TINDA ……….nooooo!

We used to call tinday false potatoes, because they used to try to pass them selves off as potatoes. Now we never had trouble with a bataoo and we never called it a false potato because a bataoo never tried to pass itself off as a potato.

[Gurmat Sangeet]

ive asked gursikhs about this if people sing kachi bani in front of maharaj's hajooree they shouldnt be allowed to do kirtan again at that place and your local sangat should know what they are doing. my response to "gurmat sangeet" gurbani is about love if someone doesnt want to do it raag thats upto them doesnt mean they'll sing kachi bani nw?

Bhai Saab Mr T,

By saying that it is up to them you ar e propogating manmat, because it is Satgurus HUKKAM that we sing in the Raag that the bani is written in.

We Sikhs do not dare go against what Gurbani (that is the accepted consensus) but in reality we are going against Gurbani when we do not sing it in the correct Raag.

Raags are there for a reason as I have stated before, they are so important that before the Stamp of our Satgurus ie mahala 5, the name of the Raag is stated.

Brother Jagmeet has clearly stated that Raag means mood, and there is a reason why a mood has been put onto each shabad in Gurbani, this is so that we get the most out of the shabad. For example, say there is a shabad in Gurbani that is telling you to behave otherwise you will face grave concequences. Now if i sing that in a happy tune will you understand the graveness of the situation? Its like if i was having a go at my kid with a smile on my face, the kids going to get confused, thinking what the hell is this guy doing, is he messing about or actually meaning what he is saying.

Gurbani is VERY Subjective in the sence that nearly all shabads are written in the first person, so when you read gurbani its sounds as if it is you who is saying it to God etc. When our Satgurus wrote bani they put a raag to it so that we can feel the emotions they felt when they had the experience of "dhur ki bani comming to them".

We all strive to be gurmukhs, i.e. try to be as much like our Guru's. This is the closest thing that we have to being like our Guru's, feeling their emotions.

Raag ampliphies the message of Gurbani, it is our duty to learn and understand Gurbani to its fullest extent, so why do we not use the tools tha Satguru has given us?

Its the ORDER, HUKKAM, LAW of Satguru that we use raag, then why do we blatently disrespect Satguru and go against him?

You see the panthic police going around upholding puratan reeta and traditions in Sikhi, why is this tradition overlooked.

We try to do things in the way our Satgurus did them, i.e. Satguru Sat on a Manja or Gadhi today we have sofas and really comfortable furniture, why not do parkash on them. Our Satgurus used to have a chaur to keep flies away, today we have zapokill, which is easier and more effective, why not use that.

SATGURU ARJUN DEV JI HIMSELF PLAYED THE SARANDA AND DID GURMAT SANGEET, why do we ignore that and take the lazy mans road of doing kirtan in any funky tune to get people all jiggy and donate £5 on stage. Is this what we have reduced our selves too?

I dont blame any of the youth, because its the RAAGI'S that are the role models, and if they sell themselves like prostitutes for a mere £5 just to propogate Manmat, just to give the sangat some funky tunes which will keep them sitting inside the darbaar sahib. Then how can the youth be blamed? They are bound to follow in their footsteps and think that its ok to do non raag kirtan because the Raagi down the road did it.

Singho, Singhanio!

Wake Up And Smell the Pakoreh!

Bhull Chukh Maaf if i spoke out of term and offended anyone.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

[Guroo Guroo Jaap]

I dont blame any of the youth, because its the RAAGI'S that are the role models, and if they sell themselves like prostitutes for a mere £5 just to propogate Manmat...

Ouchhhhhhh lool

Wake Up And Smell the Pakoreh!

I love pakoreh :rolleyes:

[SonyNeech]

can u all explain in depth the mean of kachhi bani

SHRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB is not kachi bani .if i read JAP JI sahib how it be kachi bani

Know one is saying Guru Granth Sahib Ji is kachi bani? where did you get this from? lol :6

ok but plz tell me whta is kachi bani

[*gupt-kaur*]

can u all explain in depth the mean of kachhi bani

SHRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB is not kachi bani .if i read JAP JI sahib how it be kachi bani

Know one is saying Guru Granth Sahib Ji is kachi bani? where did you get this from? lol :6

ok but plz tell me whta is kachi bani

no such thing as kachi bani

end of!

[*gupt-kaur*]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh gur sangat ji.

I am really disturbed that professional raagi continue to go against Akal Thakat humamnama and perform kachi bani through recordings and on stage.

There are thousands upon thousands of shabads from our guru's, bhagats, and Bhai Gurdaas Ji yet, some of these raagis still wont stop.

I'm mostly posting this because Davinder Singh Sodhi is in my city right now and he performed kachi bani in maharaj hazoori.

I really want to approach him about it but, don't want to be rude at the same time so i'm not sure what to say.

What can be done to stop this madness, or am I making a big deal out of this for nothing???

Its not only Devinder Singh Sodhi only, there are many more like, so called Baba Ranjit Singh Dhadrian Kalan, Harbans Singh Jagadhari, Joginder Singh Chandan and many more.

Basic problem is no one follows Gurbani, as Gurbani says

"Satgur binaa hor kachi hai bani, bani tan kachi satgur bajhon hor kachi bani.

Kehnde kache, sunde kache, kachi aakh vakhani..........."

"Satgur ki risey hor kach pich bolde, se kudiar kude jhad padiye......"

If the sangat doesn't goes to listen these Raagis or Babas, they will stop them selves. If you want, go and talk to him politely stating what Gurbani says. One person talks then another, then another, then they will realise it.

Chardikala

hmm, great idea, carry on dissing others, u just sit right there, and dont do a thing,dont bother doing kirtan urself, dont try and persuade ppl to have amrit, dont try to attach someone to sikhi, thats right..u sit right there behind ur pc screeen dissing ppl!

:rolleyes:

[SonyNeech]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh gur sangat ji.

I am really disturbed that professional raagi continue to go against Akal Thakat humamnama and perform kachi bani through recordings and on stage.

There are thousands upon thousands of shabads from our guru's, bhagats, and Bhai Gurdaas Ji yet, some of these raagis still wont stop.

I'm mostly posting this because Davinder Singh Sodhi is in my city right now and he performed kachi bani in maharaj hazoori.

I really want to approach him about it but, don't want to be rude at the same time so i'm not sure what to say.

What can be done to stop this madness, or am I making a big deal out of this for nothing???

Its not only Devinder Singh Sodhi only, there are many more like, so called Baba Ranjit Singh Dhadrian Kalan, Harbans Singh Jagadhari, Joginder Singh Chandan and many more.

Basic problem is no one follows Gurbani, as Gurbani says

"Satgur binaa hor kachi hai bani, bani tan kachi satgur bajhon hor kachi bani.

Kehnde kache, sunde kache, kachi aakh vakhani..........."

"Satgur ki risey hor kach pich bolde, se kudiar kude jhad padiye......"

If the sangat doesn't goes to listen these Raagis or Babas, they will stop them selves. If you want, go and talk to him politely stating what Gurbani says. One person talks then another, then another, then they will realise it.

Chardikala

hmm, great idea, carry on dissing others, u just sit right there, and dont do a thing,dont bother doing kirtan urself, dont try and persuade ppl to have amrit, dont try to attach someone to sikhi, thats right..u sit right there behind ur pc screeen dissing ppl!

:rolleyes:

:kaur: :TH:

[rupinder singh]

Call me a rebel or a bemukh but if the aim of the lyrics are to perform the mehma of Sri Akal Purakh, Sikhi, Khalsa, Amrit, GuruBani then personally I don’t see a big problem with it. Hasn't dharna brought many people into Sikhi? I know my parents were influenced into Sikhi Jeevan by dharna, the dholki and the high pitched white baja.

[Bundha]

<<<< Therefore I think singing anything which is not the Gurus shabads (or Bhai Gurdas and Bhai Nand Lal jees shabads which is parvan by the panth) with a saaj accepted in the guru ghar and singing in the roop of kirtan (sitting chaunkri unlike dhadi which is standing and is sang with its own rules), constitutes kachi bani. >>>

No, this is clearly wrong. In AnandSahib Ji it says nothing about sitting chaunkri constitutes kuchi or suchi bani. Kuchi bani was those compositions that were being passed off as Guru Ki bani. People like Dhirmal were trying to pass off other compositions as bani. Bhagat Kanna and Bhagat Pillu whose compositions were rejected by Guru Arjun Dev Ji for Adhu Guru GranthSahib Ji tried to pass their compositions as bani, this is kutchi bani.

<<< I also dont believe in the old days simple tunes were played or darnas, this creation of darna was after 1920/30s. >>

Again this is your view, dharna has been going on in many guises for hundreds of years, sadhus used to sing dharna which were copied and sung by those ploughing the fields.

<<< SATGURU ARJUN DEV JI HIMSELF PLAYED THE SARANDA AND DID GURMAT SANGEET, why do we ignore that and take the lazy mans road of doing kirtan>>>

Not everyone is at the same level, some can do raag others cannot, just as some people are amritdharies and others are not, you cannot comdemn them.

<<< I dont blame any of the youth, because its the RAAGI'S that are the role models, and if they sell themselves like prostitutes for a mere £5 just to propogate Manmat, just to give the sangat some funky tunes >>>

What can the Kirtanis do? Their money is stolen by the Gurdwara comities and given a poultry sum.

Of course the ideal is to sing in raag and many do, but you cannot condemn those who cannot, you feel they should stop kirtan and sit on one side ?

I’d rather we all do kirtan even if it means placing your fingers on three swaras and just doing kirtan on a simple tune.

[KhalsaMan]

Fateh Ji,

Some of you have completely missed the boat on this. This is not a raag vs non-raag debate or gurmat keertan vs anything else.

My biggest issue here with Sodhi the keertaniya is that he does his kachi bani "Amritsar val jaande rayeo" or whatever and his stage fills up with money. The sangat loves that kind of kavita and always open up their wallets. Keertaniya realize this and are exposing this by continuing to perform kachi bani that they've written themselves to increase their own profit.

There are thousands of shabads and lots more vaara by Bhai Gurdas Ji that these keertaniya can perform. Why do they write and perform their own kachi bani???

I do think it's a problem and I will certainly bring this up with Davinder Singh and let you guys know what he says.

That's the issue. I hope I haven't offended anyone.