Raagi's And Kachi Bani

[Jagmeet]

I agree with you, but you have said professional Raagis go against Akal Thakt hukamnama. One flaw in that is that Raagis only sing Gurbani in Raag and the example you have given (Bhai Davinder Singh Sodhi) is not technically a Raagi since he rarely sngs in Raag. Therefore I beleive that word Keertanyia should have been used

Just my two cents .

Raag means mood or musical measure, anything can be raag, Micheal Jacksons songs are raag, since they express a certain mood in different songs, so I think the correct term is are these Keertanyia 'Gurmat Raagis' or jus Raagis?

[Revolutionary]

I don't understand.. whats the difference between kachi baani and Dhadhi? Or Kavi Darbar...?

I'm confused on this issue.. what exactly do you lot mean by Kachi Baani?

By the way, the Tuk from Anand Sahib you are reffering to is Guru Ji saying that *anything* you say which is falsehood (ie: we Manmukhs talking on and on about random stuff) isn't worth anything. The only valuable topic to talk about is the Guru - the Path of the Guru.

[Bundha]

I would agree that Gurbani should be sung and that this is the best way for the sangat to get the most benefit. However, how are you specifying Kuch bani? This term gets banded about and people get on their high horses but no one seems to know what it means.

Is kachi bani like “Jaan javay ta jaavay, mayra Sikhi sidhak naa javay”. Which Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawalle used to sing, so we saying Sant Ji used to sing kuchi bani and went against maryadha?

The thing is, if you have a Dharna – “ Guru Nanak Dev Ji too dhan hey, Guru Nanak Dev Ji too dhan hey”

This is clearly not bani and most importantly it is not purporting to be bani, so how can you say it is kuchi bani?

Kuchi bani is that which is trying to pass itself off as true bani, but is not, this is kuchi bani, if some one sings dharna of Guru Nanak Dev Ji or Guru Gobind Singh Ji, then this is not kuchi bani as it is not passing itself off as true bani, it is just a dharna.

In the old days, simple tunes and dharna were used to get normal people into gurbani which they could not fully understand, by introducing the concepts in this way they could then go on to understand Gurbani. This is the routes of dharna.

[JustME]

very well sed Bundha pahji...........i think is is the problem with alot of todays youth in sikhi.............we go shouting Beadbi, Manmant, and my favourite ANTI GURMAT...........bahaha..........without fully understanding the implications of these terms..........and the result.............

well you only gotta look around at the state of the panth today

p.s. isnt it "Sir javay ta jaavay, mayra Sikhi sidhak naa javay" :umm:

[Revolutionary]

In the old days, simple tunes and dharna were used to get normal people into gurbani which they could not fully understand, by introducing the concepts in this way they could then go on to understand Gurbani. This is the routes of dharna.

That was *exactly* what Guru Nanak was doing!!

I agree

[SonyNeech]

can u all explain in depth the mean of kachhi bani

SHRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB is not kachi bani .if i read JAP JI sahib how it be kachi bani

[Bundha]

<<< p.s. isnt it "Sir javay ta jaavay, mayra Sikhi sidhak naa javay" >>>

Yes Benji, you are right, I knew it was something like this.

[Jagmeet]

can u all explain in depth the mean of kachhi bani

SHRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB is not kachi bani .if i read JAP JI sahib how it be kachi bani

Know one is saying Guru Granth Sahib Ji is kachi bani? where did you get this from? lol :6

[ghorandhar]

There is a difference between singing a kavita and singing a darna which is in the roop of kirtan, Singing in the roop of kirtan is nakali of the maryada given by Guru Sahib. Nakli of gur shabad's kirtan is kachi bani. Therefore I think singing anything which is not the Gurus shabads (or Bhai Gurdas and Bhai Nand Lal jees shabads which is parvan by the panth) with a saaj accepted in the guru ghar and singing in the roop of kirtan (sitting chaunkri unlike dhadi which is standing and is sang with its own rules), constitutes kachi bani.

Singing a line as pointed in khata is not in the roop of kirtan, just as singing dhadi vara which has its own distinct roop and rules.

I dont think we should break our rules because others do not fully understand. People will start saying forget doing nitnem because I dont understand what maharaj is saying. If people presenting Sikhi on stages are not going to make a stand and follow Guru jees maryada, why will the sangat who apparently cant understand? This erosion of our sadhant seems to be represented in so many different areas of Sikhi, like not having a gatra with your kirpan, rather people today are starting to wear a naked kirpan (not in the miyan) and tired onto a thread. I also dont believe in the old days simple tunes were played or darnas, this creation of darna was after 1920/30s. Sants before this time only did kirtan in Raag. Examples can be found in Sant Sarvan Singh jee Ghandarv and Sant Attar Singh jee's mastuana kirtan taksal. Ragi Jaswant Singh jee 'Tibar' book, 'Sangeet Sagar' also shows that Raag kirtan was taught and accepted within the Damdami Taksal. So this creation of darna I believe in a new thing. The erosion in gurmat sangeet is even being seen in places like harmander sahib. There was once a day when shabad chounki and kirtani in raags was only allowed, no darna, ghazal tunes, film tunes etc. Then they said you dont need a full chaunki as the maryada used to be, then they said you only have to do one shabad in raag and alap in the first shabad. Today the alaap has disappeared for most raagis and I can see kachi bani coming soon.

[Guest SatwantBeantKehar]

I totally agree with veer GurmatSangeet - Gurus decided to have each shabad in a certain raag because they all create different vibrations in our subconscious self - some of which we perceive as emotions.

The same shabad

rendered in a raag other than megh (much less banal tuny tunes )won't have the same effect - and GurmatSangeet is very right in saying everyone can learn Gurmat Sangeet.

Also I have no problem with harmonium because its capable of producing 7 surs and hence all rags.