Argument

[DhadiMania]

obviously no, man kaum ji, "jai bharat ma"? i spit on that word. but i still think its a 2 way trap, liv in khalistan, u'll hav corrupt leaders. now tohras dead, u think the SGPC is gonna patch up? u think they'll improve the gurdwaras? . theres still a million corrupt ppl in that organisation. same with akalis. Man ji, m speakin frm the point of view as well, my grandads bro wuz in darbar sahib @ the time, he wuz shot. congress aint gonna pay, n badal n tohra got 2 where they were cuz of sayin "well get ppl 2 pay", hav they? if they're gonna use lies like that, then obviously khalistan will go down.

you killed my brothers you raped my sisters, you burned my Guru sahib, you defiled my Darbar sahib, you made my brothers disappear,  You robbed my Punjab of it's rich soil by building illegal dams, you killed my culture by destroying the Punjabi language. Jai Jai Bharat mata, tu sabhi jaha sa asha. Oh my india i will forever be your gulam because if my people has a natio of their own it would be corrupt, so therfore I will not fight for freedom from your snake-like grip, i will bare your propaganda and slowly when you have left no sikh identity in Bharat Mata, I will sit and think how the Sikh nation never managed to live freely.

nice saracsm, but i ait sa

yin betta 2 liv in india either, heck all wot u mentioned has happened 2 pindus in india we no, n we do no sum ppl in india hu suffered. some families i no had the punjab police comin 2 there house n take there possesion. PUNJAB police did all this u c. yea punjab riches wen 2 other states, but thats the akali dal fault as well. My grandad also had m8s in darbar sahib hu were granthis (Giani mohan singh, apparantly wen my grandad stayed in amritsar 4 a while they met up), u think my grandad wuz happy 2 hear frm giani ji himself that he wuz strangled by his own turban? dont think so. All this illegal dam buiseness, y doesnt Capt. Amrinder Singh do nythin bout this. As 4 punjabi language, yea ure rite itz all goin down. but if we stay in india, wont solve nythin like u mentioned, punjab police n sum of the punjab regiments stayin in punjab hav raped women n beaten kids. Sure it goes round in india as well, but u think all this will change once badal takes over?

As stated in bhai rama singhs book, u'll not khalistan, but khalsa raj. but ONLY wen ppl start 2 follow FULL REHAT MARYADA. Not gettin up 7am 2 do 1 out of 5 banis. but 2 hav ishnaan @ 3am n do the 5 banis, do simran, 6pm rehraas, n hav ishnaan then do kirtan sohila. (i no its really bad me sayin all this, cuz m not amritdhari u c, but m speakin frm the point of wot goes round me). If ure khalsa, then uve taken amrit 4 a reason n that reason iz 2 plz guru ji n get 2 sachkhand, n thats by followin the rehat maryada. I hav had a discussion with a gursikh friend about amrit n khalistan, he agrees with bhai sahib sayin u take amrit, but dont do the banis, how u gonna get guru jis darshan? In bhai sahibs book, u wont jus get khalistan, but in fact khalsa raj. rehat is actually wot made the sikh raj big. nows the time 2 do parchaar of sikhi, 2 com bak, get away frm drinkin n smokin n drugs (i hav

bin saved frm this by maharaj's kirpa), if u arent willin 2 take amriy, fine, but @ least com bak 2 sikhi. SGPC is not as how it used 2 b (in 20's n 30's), they now all do drug dealin, badal is due in court 4 bein corrupt. Does rehat say 2 do ny of this? dont think so. khalsa will gain wot it wants by followin rehat (as stated by bhai sahib).

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

"then uve taken amrit 4 a reason n that reason iz 2 plz guru ji n get 2 sachkhand, n thats by followin the rehat maryada"

No one should take amrit to get to sachkand or "heaven" becuase a sikh takes amrit becuase one is submitting to God's will and does it out of love for Guru Sahib, wanting nothing in return, it is a selfless act. If people take amrit to get to sachkand well then something is wrong because then you sound like Christian missionaries who say accept Jesus Christ as your savior to get into heaven, selfless sewa and attachment to waaheguru is key and what one gets in return should not even matter to a true Sikh.

As for your post I truly understand where you are coming from, i do not support badal or akali dal badal or congress etc. Remember that sikhi is blessed by Guru Hargobind Ji's MIRI PIRI, as seen by Sri harmandir Sahib and Sri Akal Takhat Sahib. Sikhs do need to do parchar and also need to take hold of their political future as it is the right of every sikh. It is hard to do parchar in India today because the gov't is working it's tail off spreading RSS and hindutva propaganda against Sikh Gurus. The gov't is spending crores on protecting fake babas and sants in punjab dividing the panth. I understand your concerns but you can do something. Badal is not the king of the Sikhs, we are not his pawns, the panth has the capacity to secure its future, it starts with each and every one of us, do not have this attitude that all is corrupt and there is no hope. A sikh never loses hope because truth always wins. You must understand that during Maharaja Ranjit singh's time there were also many problems within the panth. T

here were hindu idols in gurdwaras and many anti-panthic elements existed. Even during the times if the Gurus, many pakhandis claimed to be gurus of the sikhs, but the true khalsa always came forth and secured victory, we are not in a new battle, we ahve been there before, this is nothing new to the khalsa.

my main point is to have faith and courage. become active in the struggle by whatever means possible, don't wait for others to do the work becuase then nothing ever gets done. You want parchar but what happened to teh lats great Sikhs who did parchar in Punjab, yeah the Indian gov't sent the whole army after him, (Sant jarnail singh ji khalsa bhindrwale.) we all want parchar but have you seen what happens to real sikhi parchar in Punjab?

Oh yeah and remember one more thing it is not bharat which infuriates me because i would die for any hindustani anyday, i would never let the land of india be taken by anyone because as sikhs it is our duty to protect all regardless of religion, the majority of people in India live in poverty and barely have enough to eat. It is a small minority of Brahmins in Delhi who are using the people and forcing them to live in misery. To save the Sikh spirit to protect our right to live as a sovereign kaum we need khalistan, we need to plant our root sin our homeland so we can do parchar and help the poor people in the region because living in India we have done nothing but fought to protect our identity, let's secure our freedom so we can move on to the mission of Sikhi which is to serve humanity. I don't want to see countries destroyed or people killed, i just want to see my people free and the people of india to prosper. This is the vision of khalistan my friend.

[DhadiMania]

so even if u take amrit u cant escape chaurasi lakh joon (even followin full rehat)?. nywayz thats not the point of the discussion, were havin a discussion bout khalistan, not havin an argument/debate on wot guru ji did 4 us. nywyaz bak 2 wot we were sayin...

ppl r doin parchaar (shaheedi imortality, best trak eva) 2 bring sikhs bak 2 sikhi. a whole generation dont no about 1984. still say "were punjabi" but go caste system wise n hav "jai bharat maaa" all ova there shirts. k u cant do parchaar in india, but wot about other nations? raja ranjit singh prob had all these probs but only wen the mahants took ova wen he died thats wen all these statues were placed in the parikama. raja wuz the president of golden temple of time, dont u think heda got rid of em str8 away?

ure rte about all this parchaar in india etc etc. hey i got an idea (lol) y dont ppl turn gyani n do katha (english or make katha luk cool) n go gurdwara n preach, got loadsa ppl here doin it in uk. now do it in india innit. but still indian government etc.

i agree with ure dream of khalistan but i say we jus need it bigga. make alliances wih other minoritis, n take ova not jus punjab but all of northern india (enuff 4 khalistan) now thats a khalistan i dream of. or a land of 5 takhats. well man, wot u say?

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

oh man it is not about the amount of land, it doesn't matter how big khalistan is...it is about having ahome of our own where we can plant the roots of sikhi without government interference. ok im done with this thread...lataz

[DhadiMania]

yea but still, bigga the betta. nywayz like u im packin it in (with this debate) nice havin a debate wit u. u showed me more bout khalistan 2 me. thanks.

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

peace brother.

[Gill]

and didn't guru ji say, sikh should govern themselves

[DhadiMania]

read in search of the true guru by bhai sahib bhai rama singh ji (www.sikhnation.com)

m quotin frm rochak malang ji

(u prob read this gill, but its a tru quote)

From Bhai Rama Singh Ji's book (summarized in my own words)

Giani Pritam Singh once mentioned that even during the time of Guru Gobind Singh, the question of Khalsa Raj came up. Gurujee carried out a test. Sweet rice, with many other expensive and delicious ingredients was prepared and was spread on a white sheet. About a dozen dogs were then brought in. The dogs barked and snarled at each other but none ate the rice. They just spread the rice around in dirt with their feet and kept snarling at each other. Similarly, Bhaisahib says, the Singhs are not understanding the value of Gurbani. They quarrel for leadership, but until the Khalsa begins to observe the Rehit, recite Gurbani and do Naam Simran, Khalsa will not get its own raj.

so u c, u need 2 follow rehat b4 u get khalistan, gal khatam

[Shagird]

thinking about the indian government and badal = wanting to :g :v :g :v :g :v :g :v :g