How Should Be Interrupt Pathans Glorying Ahmed Shah Abdali?

[chatanga]

"this is how powerful interests in western world toy and play with countries in third world.

they cleverly instigate and use forces in the third world against each other.

they take glee in the death and destruction and then moralize

as if to people lower their own bearing.

and keep their hands clean and above board.

And events like 84 happen when internal instability is aided by external forces. "

Raju

can you plz inform us what external forces were in play or aiding the Sikhs when :

1. in 47 the indian govt moved to declare sikhs a criminal tribe?

2. in 66 when the police fired teargas shells at sikhs on the Golden Temple parikrama?

3. in 78 when 13 sikhs were shot dead in amritsar and over 80 were injured?

4. in 1981 the police set fire to Aad Guru Saroop in Chando Kalan, Haryana?

5. in the subsequent years b4 84 when the police started to eliminate sikhs in false encounters?

you seem to know a lot about external forces in india, whereas someone dumb like myself always thought that the problem was the indian govt. and hindu fascism.

thanks in advance.

[virk30]

pathans always try to brag about what they did to sikhs, the pakistani pathans and afghan pathans, but i love it when i get to tell them what maharaja ranjit singh and the sikhs did back to them, like burn half of peshware down to the ground and cutting the pathan population in that city by half.

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

"Except that was a instance of hindus killing hindus (something you say never happens in Hindu India)."

i haven't said that. in fact, what i have said is that a sikh is guilty until proven innocent, and a hindu is innocent until proven guilty. Hindus killing hindus is qute common, have you seen all the dalits killed by upper caste hindus?

you keep harping on the conspiracy theory of the west, yet the indian constitution says sikhs are hindus, is that a western conspiracy as well?

chatanga makes very good points. also, we can go back all the way to guru nanak ji. he single handedly shook the brahmin machinery. They tried to kill him back then. The sikh ethos and psyche has always been a thorn in teh side of brahminism, because it shakes the core of their imaginary hold over indian society.

indians like to put forward this imaginary love affair between guru sahib and brahmins, when the fact is that it was a major issue. since the inception of sikhi, brahmin thought has felt threatened. this manifested itself in physical attacks on guru sahib as well as trying to falsify sikh belief through propaganda and what not(writing fake granths etc).

and you want a conspiracy theory. a minority brahman group is controlling basically every facet of indian life. how?

you need to read sikh history from the begining to realize what is going on and where sikh opinions are coming from. it wasn't all sikhs vs. mughals. it was many many times sikhs vs brahmin thought and armies.

out of all the battles guru sahib fought, majority were against the hindu hill rajas. not trying to downplay the treachery of the mughals, but just want to remind indian patriots that their forefathers weren't guru lovers either.

peace.

[Raju]

"this is how powerful interests in western world toy and play with countries in third world.

they cleverly instigate and use forces in the third world against each other.

they take glee in the death and destruction and then moralize

as if to people lower their own bearing.

and keep their hands clean and above board.

And events like 84 happen when internal instability is aided by external forces. "

Raju

can you plz inform us what external forces were in play or aiding the Sikhs when :

1. in 47 the indian govt moved to declare sikhs a criminal tribe?

After independence it became abundantly clear what the western agenda was. Muslims were being cultivated until 1857 to undercut the Hindu majority. You see around the world in Albania, Kosovo everywhere there is a muslim minority to undercut the Christian Orthodox majority. Infact Communism was planned in the west as a plot to submerge civlizational memory of those countries with Orthodox Christian identity as that was considered a threat to Catholic and Judeo-Christian interests in long run.

In India just replace the Orthodox Christian of Eastern Europe with Hindu. Same pattern and same flows. After 1857 the British started cultivating Sikhs in a major way. Instilling in them all kinds of imaginary attributes of superiority over native masses and because in the future ops the Sikhs were identified as the community to aid the British in their geo-political agenda. They were to be a lynchpin to control the muslim mob of west Punjab and NWFP. Thus they had to be distinguished from muslims as well as Hindus.

Out came theories mentored by self-styled British authors on how those evil Hindooo with their evil caste systems brutally oppressed Sikhs and daleeeets. Once they found their groove then any amount of material could be published to further their agenda.

A wedge was thus created between Sikhs and every other community of the region.

This has a bearing on the rest of the incidents you mention. Sikhs instigate violence and then Govt cracks down on it and then there is a huge outcry with allegations of bahmanwaad, casteist daleeeet oppressing hindoooo and so on.

2. in 66 when the police fired teargas shells at sikhs on the Golden Temple parikrama?

3. in 78 when 13 sikhs were shot dead in amritsar and over 80 were injured?

4. in 1981 the police set fire to Aad Guru Saroop in Chando Kalan, Haryana?

5. in the subsequent years b4 84 when the police started to eliminate sikhs in false encounters?

you seem to know a lot about external forces in india, whereas someone dumb like myself always thought that the problem was the indian govt. and hindu fascism.

thanks in advance.

You are correct Indian Govt has a problem because they do not seem to handle law & order problems well ever. But there are countless times when law & order problems have been handled well but the Indian govt and the tyranical hindooo never get credit for these.

they are just singled out whenever they commit any mistakes.

[Muzumdar]

Raju

yes, Indira Gandhi is considered this great leftist-leaning leader

Are you insane? 'Leftist-leaning'? Indira Gandhi is renowned for locking up, butchering and persecuting members and supporters of all of the communist parties of India. She is also renowned for using communalism in order to win elections and a forced sterilisation programme; hardly 'leftist' traits. Even if we take the uneducated illiterate masses, they certainly do not see her as a 'leftist'.

who was paranoid about CIA and the last one who really looked after Indian Interests.

This is true but this doesn't make her a leftist, it makes her an anti-imperialist.

She partitioned Pakistan and won Bangladesh.

This, along with her standing up to America and telling them to bring war if they want one resulting in them bottling it, was her finest moment. The death of Islam on the subcontinent and actions to this end is something that should be applauded.

Of course, things went downhill after 71 and she became a power hungry psycho who took a gamble with the Sikhs and lost cataclysmically.

I personally am of the opinion that her death was carefully planned by western intelligence agencies because she opposed and stymied their economic and strategic plans in India.

No. Enough with the conspiracy theories. Her death was born out of the deep and profound Sikh cultural concept of zulum, which the Sikhs simply cannot tolerate.

Strong national leaders in developing countries were considered to be an obstacle in plans of western elite. They needed to eliminate these people through political assasinations.

But she was a scion of Nerhu and Gandhi, who were brown Sahibs themselves. The West didn't care about her per se, only the US cared because they were at that point obssesed with Afghanistan which was dependent on Pakistan, whose stability was dependent on whether Indiria wanted to destroy it or not.

[Raju]

actually Muzumdar, I can not answer to your questions. Due to some authorization problems .. will try ltr.

>>

Are you insane? 'Leftist-leaning'? Indira Gandhi is renowned for locking up, butchering and persecuting members and supporters of all of the communist parties of India. She is also renowned for using communalism in order to win elections and a forced sterilisation programme; hardly 'leftist' traits. Even if we take the uneducated illiterate masses, they certainly do not see her as a 'leftist'.

Have you heard of a certain Comrade Stalin .. ??

>>No. Enough with the conspiracy theories. Her death was born out of the deep and profound Sikh cultural concept of zulum, which the Sikhs simply cannot tolerate.

the local perpetrators of such crimes are always the natives.

the masterminds are not Indian though.

the white man always keeps his hands clean.

CIA has budget of $200 billion not for just watch stars and skies.

It is to arrange political assasinations and foment insurgencies in east block and third world.

Even recently do you remember the Orange and color revolutions in various parts of the world.

In Tibet, Burma, Ukraine, Belarus, Kyrghyzstan all by same western groups.

But she was a scion of Nerhu and Gandhi, who were brown Sahibs themselves. The West didn't care about her per se, only the US cared because they were at that point obssesed with Afghanistan which was dependent on Pakistan, whose stability was dependent on whether Indiria wanted to destroy it or not.

Nehru was foisted upon India by the west.

It is highly confusing how Gandhi fell for this joker.

But it just shows that all humans are fallible.

[xHarinder_singh]

This world is just a temporary drama. The thing that really matters is what happens in the sachi dargaah of Akaal Purakh. In that dargah only people imbued with Naam are honoured and poor people like abdaali and indira gandhi, their faces are blackened and are sent to hell.

Othai sache he sach nibrai, chunn vakh kadde jajmalaiya.

thaoo na payinnn kuuriyaar, MOOH KALA DOJAK CHALLIYAA.

[Muzumdar]

Have you heard of a certain Comrade Stalin .. ??

Nice try. Some key differences though. Indira's actioins cannot in any way shape or form be considered 'leftist'. She didn't consider herself a 'leftist'. Hence I find you referring to her as one problematic.

the local perpetrators of such crimes are always the natives.

the masterminds are not Indian though.

the white man always keeps his hands clean.

CIA has budget of $200 billion not for just watch stars and skies.

It is to arrange political assasinations and foment insurgencies in east block and third world.

Even recently do you remember the Orange and color revolutions in various parts of the world.

In Tibet, Burma, Ukraine, Belarus, Kyrghyzstan all by same western groups.

Indeed, but why 'get Indira assasinated' in November 1984? What possible purpose could it serve at that point in time? If you can't answer this conclusively, then it is just another conspiracy theory.

Nehru was foisted upon India by the west.

It is highly confusing how Gandhi fell for this joker.

Agreed. Both were fools.

[chatanga]

Raju, your theory about how the sikhs were there to control the nwfp andf the hindus etc and communism are such are just big words. Nothing else. There is nothing to substantiate what you have written . it is just pure speculation.

Lets ignore speculation and look at facts. plz.

The fact is that whether the bristish created a wedge between the sikhs and hindus or not, we still had and have the same rights as other communities around this world. So if the hindus and muslims had/have the right to choose thier political paths/beleiefs then why dont the Sikhs?

Why do we have to be victimized just cos we want the same thing that the hindus and muslims got 60 years earlier?

Why is it that if we want recognition as a community , its suddenly a law and order problem?

Why was it that when we ask for the promises made by congress to be fulfilled its suddenly a a law and order prob?

Anything we ask for becomes a law and order problem in india.

and look at this turd of a quote from Raju :

In India just replace the Orthodox Christian of Eastern Europe with Hindu. Same pattern and same flows. After 1857 the British started cultivating Sikhs in a major way. Instilling in them all kinds of imaginary attributes of superiority over native masses and because in the future ops the Sikhs were identified as the community to aid the British in their geo-political agenda. They were to be a lynchpin to control the muslim mob of west Punjab and NWFP. Thus they had to be distinguished from muslims as well as Hindus.

Out came theories mentored by self-styled British authors on how those evil Hindooo with their evil caste systems brutally oppressed Sikhs and daleeeets. Once they found their groove then any amount of material could be published to further their agenda.

A wedge was thus created between Sikhs and every other community of the region. "

why is that after all this "hardwork" put in by the brits over so many years the Sikhs still ended up in india? Obvioulsy we were superior to the hindus/bahmans, so how did this calamity happen?

It hapened cos we TRUSTED the indian govt to be true to its word. It hapened cos we thought that Sikhs and Hindus were brothers.It happneded cos we thought that we were EQUAL. If we had any feelings of superiorty then who would have been first in line for thier own country? Sikhs or Hindus or Muslims?

Think about it logically before you give us another shower of turd-talk Raju.

[Raju]

chatanga, you want to exist in a comfort zone where Sikhs have done no wrong.

whereas I am willing to accept that Indira was wrong.

& Rajiv too had sinned.

Raju, your theory about how the sikhs were there to control the nwfp andf the hindus etc and communism are such are just big words. Nothing else. There is nothing to substantiate what you have written . it is just pure speculation.

what is there to speculate in this.

this is a fact.

the Sikhs today are equally antagonistic towards the hindus and muslims.

Or you can put it that both hindus and muslims in west Punjab have a lot of grouse against Sikhs.

the roots of this antagonism were seeded by the british policy in the region of cultivating Sikhs as a military force

to futher their geo-political goals.

To generate a clap or for an even to occur always requires two parties to act. It cannot be generated by actions on one side alone.