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akal sahai

Is It Gurmat To Wear A Black Dummala

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If your not gonna take it from a mahapurakh like Mahaakaal Baba Nihal Singh Ji than theres no point in continuing the debate.

oh waheguru! i'm sorry baba ji, i thought you were someone else. :WW:

i would like to add that i have the highest respect for Baba Nihal Singh ji. and to my knowledge, he has never criticized or gone against SRM.

however, if i'm wrong, please feel free to let me know.

in fact, to my knowledge, none of the great mahapurakh have gone against SRM. even Sant Jarnail Singh ji Bhindranwale said in his speeches to take amrit from anyone, don't worry about these divisions in the panth. the most important thin is Amrivela, at least panj bania nitnem, don't eat meat and don't do bujjar kurehets.

this is common across the majority of sampardae, and it's the same as SRM. so i don't see why you guys have to keep trashing the panthic rehat maryada.

"Officialy my last post in this topic"

I know I said I wouldnt post on here again but I feel your post is in need of a reply.

1) What is with the cheek and sarcasm? "oh waheguru! i'm sorry baba ji, i thought you were someone else. :WW:" That remark wasnt funny at all, your my sister so i have refered to you as penji out of respect, please dont use sarcasm in Panthic debates, humble benthi.

2) Like I have said a number of times in my posts, wear what you want it doesnt bother me but Nihang Singhs dont wear black dumaala but if panj pyare told you that you can wear black then that is SAT BACHAN and IS PARVAAN.

3) If panj pyare dont mention what colours you can or cannot wear then that is kool, wear what you want BUT majority of the Panth i.e Nihang Singhs, Taksali Singhs, Nirmaleh Singhs, AKJ Singhs dont wear green or red dastaars.

I think i've made my views clear on this issue and I ask you humbly that you respect them and not quote me again prevoking me to reply. I respect your views, I just ask you to look further into who the SGPC are and how they operate.

and by the way Baba Ji has gone against SGPC maryada when he defended the bibia doing kirtan in the Darbar Sahib complex.

Story-2

1980 With the protection of Baba Nihal Singh, Krishan Kaur Khalsa was the first woman to perform kirtan, in recent time, within the confines of Sri Harimandir Sahib. Vikram Singh Khalsa was performing kirtan on the Gurupurab for the birthday for Guru Ram Das Ji. This kirtan was for a Bhog on the roof of the Harimandir Sahib -- not in the main hall. When he finished, he motioned for Krishna Kaur Khalsa to play. As she began some SGPC sevadars moved to stop her but Baba Nihal Singh and some other Nihungs stood in their

way and protected her right to perform kirtan within the confines of the Harimandir Sahib. Still no Sikh woman has performed kirtan in the main darbar.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=31286&st=0

Laadli Fauj nice example in your post.

Bhull Chukk Maarf Karna Jio

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

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If panj pyare dont mention what colours you can or cannot wear then that is kool, wear what you want BUT majority of the Panth i.e Nihang Singhs, Taksali Singhs, Nirmaleh Singhs, AKJ Singhs dont wear green or red dastaars.

I think i've made my views clear on this issue and I ask you humbly that you respect them and not quote me again prevoking me to reply. I respect your views, I just ask you to look further into who the SGPC are and how they operate.

and by the way Baba Ji has gone against SGPC maryada when he defended the bibia doing kirtan in the Darbar Sahib complex.

Story-2

1980 With the protection of Baba Nihal Singh, Krishan Kaur Khalsa was the first woman to perform kirtan, in recent time, within the confines of Sri Harimandir Sahib. Vikram Singh Khalsa was performing kirtan on the Gurupurab for the birthday for Guru Ram Das Ji. This kirtan was for a Bhog on the roof of the Harimandir Sahib -- not in the main hall. When he finished, he motioned for Krishna Kaur Khalsa to play. As she began some SGPC sevadars moved to stop her but Baba Nihal Singh and some other Nihungs stood in their

way and protected her right to perform kirtan within the confines of the Harimandir Sahib. Still no Sikh woman has performed kirtan in the main darbar.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=31286&st=0

i apologize veerji for the sarcasm. it was unnecessary.

and i apoligize in advance for disagreeing with you.

however, first, AKJ, Taksal, and nihungs do not make up the majority of Sikhs! i'm sorry, but i simply don't know where you're getting this idea. i'm very sorry to disagree, but respectfully, i believe that you may not be aware of Sikhi in the rest of the world. again, i'm very sorry to say that and i mean no disrespect.

second, Baba ji did NOT go against the panthic rehat maryada when he held back the crowd for krishna kaur.

the SRM says NOTHING about women being disallowed from kirtan. it says "only a SIKH may perform kirtan in congregation".

THE CODE OF SIKH CONDUCT AND CONVENTIONS

CHAPTER V

Kirtan (Devotional Hymns Singing by a Group or an Indvidual)

Article VI <a name="article6">

a) Only a Sikh may perform Kirtan in a congregation.

b) Kirtan means singing the scriptural compositions in traditional musical measures.

c) In the congragation, Kirtan only of Gurbani (Guru Granth's or Guru Gobind Singh's hymns) and, for its elaboration, of the compositions of Bhai Gurdas and Bhai Nand Lal, may be performed.

d) It is improper, while singing hymns to rhythmic folk tunes or to traditional musical measures, or in team singing, to induct into them improvised and extraneous refrains. Only a line from the hymn should be made a refrain.

in 2005, SGPC has even specifically said that women may do kirtan in any gurdwara, INCLUDING DARBAR SAHIB, pending (then) jathedar vedanti's approval. unfortunately, he was unwilling to go against the traditional banning of women that was started by the mahants and continues today. this also applies to palki sahib seva and amrit sanchar seva, both of which are ALLOWED by the rehat maryada, but banned at akal takht and darbar sahib.

this is my biggest gripe with akal takht today. i'm still trying to find a suitible form of protest of these stupid gender-biased rules.

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If your not gonna take it from a mahapurakh like Mahaakaal Baba Nihal Singh Ji than theres no point in continuing the debate.

oh waheguru! i'm sorry baba ji, i thought you were someone else. :WW:

i would like to add that i have the highest respect for Baba Nihal Singh ji. and to my knowledge, he has never criticized or gone against SRM.

however, if i'm wrong, please feel free to let me know.

in fact, to my knowledge, none of the great mahapurakh have gone against SRM. even Sant Jarnail Singh ji Bhindranwale said in his speeches to take amrit from anyone, don't worry about these divisions in the panth. the most important thin is Amrivela, at least panj bania nitnem, don't eat meat and don't do bujjar kurehets.

this is common across the majority of sampardae, and it's the same as SRM. so i don't see why you guys have to keep trashing the panthic rehat maryada.

"Officialy my last post in this topic"

I know I said I wouldnt post on here again but I feel your post is in need of a reply.

1) What is with the cheek and sarcasm? "oh waheguru! i'm sorry baba ji, i thought you were someone else. :WW:" That remark wasnt funny at all, your my sister so i have refered to you as penji out of respect, please dont use sarcasm in Panthic debates, humble benthi.

2) Like I have said a number of times in my posts, wear what you want it doesnt bother me but Nihang Singhs dont wear black dumaala but if panj pyare told you that you can wear black then that is SAT BACHAN and IS PARVAAN.

3) If panj pyare dont mention what colours you can or cannot wear then that is kool, wear what you want BUT majority of the Panth i.e Nihang Singhs, Taksali Singhs, Nirmaleh Singhs, AKJ Singhs dont wear green or red dastaars.

I think i've made my views clear on this issue and I ask you humbly that you respect them and not quote me again prevoking me to reply. I respect your views, I just ask you to look further into who the SGPC are and how they operate.

and by the way Baba Ji has gone against SGPC maryada when he defended the bibia doing kirtan in the Darbar Sahib complex.

Story-2

1980 With the protection of Baba Nihal Singh, Krishan Kaur Khalsa was the first woman to perform kirtan, in recent time, within the confines of Sri Harimandir Sahib. Vikram Singh Khalsa was performing kirtan on the Gurupurab for the birthday for Guru Ram Das Ji. This kirtan was for a Bhog on the roof of the Harimandir Sahib -- not in the main hall. When he finished, he motioned for Krishna Kaur Khalsa to play. As she began some SGPC sevadars moved to stop her but Baba Nihal Singh and some other Nihungs stood in their

way and protected her right to perform kirtan within the confines of the Harimandir Sahib. Still no Sikh woman has performed kirtan in the main darbar.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=31286&st=0

Laadli Fauj nice example in your post.

Bhull Chukk Maarf Karna Jio

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

She won't stop mate, she will apologise, hence thats why I dont post more often on here now. Having said this there is no where in Sri Guru Granth Sahib that forbids us from wearing any colour at all. Just because you wear a different colour does not make you a better person, Waheguru has many colours, this is just a "Vhem". I wear a black turban, now am I bad? Am I against Sikhi? My Guru is Guru Granth Sahib and no other, Guru does not mention anything about specific colou is good or bad, its sikhs after who make their own rules up. This is fine, but they shouldnt impose this rule on everyone, if you want to wear black, blue, green, red, orange, purple, lime green, pink all up to you, nothing wrong with it. Better still do Naam Simran, which is the only thing you going take with you, NOT colours.

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WJKK WJKF

Pyari Sangat Ji,

With respect no Maryada or more importantly the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji says in any form a Sikh must wear a particular colour Damalla or Distaar!

It is purely down to the individual what colour they wish to wear.

There of course traditional colours for weddings/ death and certain Sikhs wear a specific colour to show 'affilation' to their Sikh grouping. But remember no one colour is exclusive to that Sikh grouping.

I ask any learned person to show me in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or Maryada (appreciate the various forms) where it specifically says a Sikh cannot wear a specific colour ?

Just because the Sri Guru Granth Sahib mentions a colour does not mean we cannot wear it -keep it in perspective. As a Panth we have more urgent issues to be dealing with !

Gurmat is not based on the colour of your Dummala ! Gurmat is based on the tenents of the 10 Guru Ji's and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. FULL STOP. There is no suggestion/ interpretation/ specific order that states a specific colour must be worn to symbolise Gurmat. Yes, colour is mentioned but as 'context' to a specific tenent.

Please, we should be posting more intelligent questions !

WJKK WJKF

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WJKK WJKF

Pyari Sangat Ji,

With respect no Maryada or more importantly the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji says in any form a Sikh must wear a particular colour Damalla or Distaar!

It is purely down to the individual what colour they wish to wear.

There of course traditional colours for weddings/ death and certain Sikhs wear a specific colour to show 'affilation' to their Sikh grouping. But remember no one colour is exclusive to that Sikh grouping.

I ask any learned person to show me in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or Maryada (appreciate the various forms) where it specifically says a Sikh cannot wear a specific colour ?

Just because the Sri Guru Granth Sahib mentions a colour does not mean we cannot wear it -keep it in perspective. As a Panth we have more urgent issues to be dealing with !

Gurmat is not based on the colour of your Dummala ! Gurmat is based on the tenents of the 10 Guru Ji's and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. FULL STOP. There is no suggestion/ interpretation/ specific order that states a specific colour must be worn to symbolise Gurmat. Yes, colour is mentioned but as 'context' to a specific tenent.

Please, we should be posting more intelligent questions !

WJKK WJKF

Agreed with 100%, its all Brahmanic thinking, a "Vehm", you are Guru ji's Khalsa, you don't fear from anything including COLOURS! :TH:

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Sheesh...Tell Me Your Kidding...

...Hey Waheguru, What's Happening To Your Sikhs?!...How Come They Are Becoming Such Fanatics? :wacko:

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Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

I have been a silent reader for a while and first of all want to congratulate people running this website fr doing a wonderful job.

On this issue I just have a question to ask from all who think that as a sikh they shouldnt wear some particular colours. Why shall we do this when God has blessed us with the same colours?

Black - We have black Kesh and Beard. Akalpurukh Parmaatma blessed us with this colour

Red - Blood in our Veins. Again, art of the God.

Green - When we see Green sites or greenery in the world we just adore the creation of the God. Some of us even go on expensive vacations to visit such places. To enjoy the greenery.

I am not as knowledgable as all the gurmukh people on this forum but i just wanted to say what i feel like. Please do correct me if you think I am wrong.

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Gurfateh

I just want to start by saying I agree with someday, it seems really silly to discuss which colour we should wear as nature has created us with many differences in form and colour. Prof Darshan Singh did veechar on the tuk 'har ra(n)g raathaa so man saachaa ||' and the answer lies in this line from the Bani.

He also mentioned that the colour red is mentioned in Bani many times. The colour red symbolises meeting your beloved hence why brides in India wear this colour on their wedding day. It's a similar relationship of the bhagat and vaheguru which Guru Sahib describes in Gurbani. I know Bana is important and an integral part of Sikhi, but we fail to realise that Bani is before Bana. We should reflect on the Bani first and foremost. I just hope we dont descend into extremism like other faiths (Islam), where they are actually told which hand to use while cleaning themselves when going to the toilet and other such silly rules.

Wearing red or green isnt going to condemn you to hell or give you paap, we really need to move away from all this or noone is going to take us seriously. Look at the mockery the bollywood industry is making of Sikhs already! (sorry separate topic but I just saw Salman Khan and Preity whatsitname in a song where they are in the Gurdwara in front of the Guru Sahib and a love song is playing in the background, they are eyeing each other up and he's dressed up as a 'sardar')!

Gurfateh!

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The Panth Pranvit Rehat Maryada is what a majority of Amritdhari Sikhs follow. Although going by this forum one would assume that AKJ, Nihangs and Taksal consist of the majority of the Panth. In the real world 95% of Amritdhari Sikhs follow the Panth Pranvit Rehat Maryada.

It doesn't mention anything about colours because the Gurus kept their maryada down to a minimum. It gradually over time that people have started to add their own 'mat' instead of just following Gurmat. The Gurus didn't devise a Sharia type law because these things are transistory and liable to change over time. It's only in the west that you get different jathebandis and now belief in so-called Mahapurkhs and their own personal Rehat Maryada.

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The Panth Pranvit Rehat Maryada is what a majority of Amritdhari Sikhs follow. Although going by this forum one would assume that AKJ, Nihangs and Taksal consist of the majority of the Panth. In the real world 95% of Amritdhari Sikhs follow the Panth Pranvit Rehat Maryada.

It doesn't mention anything about colours because the Gurus kept their maryada down to a minimum. It gradually over time that people have started to add their own 'mat' instead of just following Gurmat. The Gurus didn't devise a Sharia type law because these things are transistory and liable to change over time. It's only in the west that you get different jathebandis and now belief in so-called Mahapurkhs and their own personal Rehat Maryada.

oooooops u accidentally pressed 9 instead of 0 they are to close to each other .... hmmm may be ur using a to narrow keyboard ... :rolleyes:

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Is that all you have. I wonder how long it took you to think up such a reply!

Like it or not, these three groups don't have a large following amongst Amritdhari Sikhs. Most of the Amritdharis is my area in Punjab would think you were off your rocker if you said that you have something called the Budha Dal Gutka. A Gukta is a Gutka to these people and not an AKJ Gutka or a Taksal Gutka. This is why this forum gives a very unrealistic picture of what it is to be a Sikh. Anyone reading this forum would assume that these three group are the majority of Amritdhari Sikhs. As for the fixation of some people on Nihangs those who didn't know better would think that most Sikhs are Nihangs, then it's the Taksal and then the AKJ and the Sikhs who believe and follow the Panth Pranvit Rehat maryada are just a few dozen!

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Is that all you have. I wonder how long it took you to think up such a reply!

Like it or not, these three groups don't have a large following amongst Amritdhari Sikhs. Most of the Amritdharis is my area in Punjab would think you were off your rocker if you said that you have something called the Budha Dal Gutka. A Gukta is a Gutka to these people and not an AKJ Gutka or a Taksal Gutka. This is why this forum gives a very unrealistic picture of what it is to be a Sikh. Anyone reading this forum would assume that these three group are the majority of Amritdhari Sikhs. As for the fixation of some people on Nihangs those who didn't know better would think that most Sikhs are Nihangs, then it's the Taksal and then the AKJ and the Sikhs who believe and follow the Panth Pranvit Rehat maryada are just a few dozen!

yeah it took me 11 minutes to think of such a reply it was of two phases 10 mins of laugh looking at ignorance and 1 minute to type ... again here it should be my house not my area ... the correct version should be

Most of the Amritdharis is my house in Punjab would think you were off your rocker if you said that you have something called the Budha Dal Gutka.

if its ur area then i should suppose out of two crores 1 crore 90 lakh would be staying in ur area only ... :lol:

just for a figures in 2008 budhadal has renewed more then 8 lakh registered identity cards ... there is tarna dal to ... i think only budhadal has shattered ur dream of 95 percent ... in rajasthan majority of sikhs are associated with dal panth ... over 60 % of total population ... if u move outside ur house things are little different and if u move outside punjab things are totally different ... so its always better to do some research then just typing ...

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8 lakh! You would be hard put out to get even 8 thousand Nihangs together so I don't know where all your identity cards have been going to. Could there be a new scam going where those who want out of Punjab think having a Nihang identity card will give them a better chance of entry into foreign countries. Seriously 8 Lakh, I've travelled all over Punjab and I've never come across more than 1 or 2 Nihangs in any bus or train. Even then I see them arguing with a bus conductor wanting to wriggle out of paying the bus fare.

So 60% of Sikhs in Rajasthan are associated with Budha Dal, are you again a bit off with your figures? There's about 10 Lakh Sikhs in Rajasthan, so are you seriously claiming that 6 lakh Sikhs in Rajasthan are associated with Budha Dal? FYI I have been to Rajasthan, having visited relatives in Ganganagar, Karanpur as well as Kota and Alwar. At the last place I stayed with relatives of my best friend. I can't say I noticed more Nihangs in Rajasthan than in Punjab. If anything there were less Nihangs than in Punjab. So I suggest you get real about figures.

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oh so now every one associated with budhadal is nihang singh .... YAWNS .... people need to get the basics right ... not i wonder where that 95 % figure came from ...

just a quicky hint for you ... my ustad is a nihang singh ... he taught more than around 500 - 600 students till date may be more ... santheya of guru granth sahib including children and old ... 90 % of them dont wear bana but follow basic mareyada of dal panth that is blue keski in hairs and kessan de shaster even if they are wearing shirt and trouser ... they have taken amrit from dal panth and when they wish they can get in banna ...

so next time u see a normal amrit dhari man sitting with u in bus and u think its ur 95% quota and start ur missionary ways of filling hatred about mareyada or sant mahapurh of panth ... just beware he can be budhadals singh ....

and regarding my previous post i said 8 lakh members associated with dal panth ... not 8 lakh nihang singhs ... as 8 lakh is very less ... there should be more then 25 lakh fauj even in this forum only ... and may be sava lakh is replying to u know ... :1singh1:

keya samjhe

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oh so now every one associated with budhadal is nihang singh .... YAWNS .... people need to get the basics right ... not i wonder where that 95 % figure came from ...

just a quicky hint for you ... my ustad is a nihang singh ... he taught more than around 500 - 600 students till date may be more ... santheya of guru granth sahib including children and old ... 90 % of them dont wear bana but follow basic mareyada of dal panth that is blue keski in hairs and kessan de shaster even if they are wearing shirt and trouser ... they have taken amrit from dal panth and when they wish they can get in banna ...

so next time u see a normal amrit dhari man sitting with u in bus and u think its ur 95% quota and start ur missionary ways of filling hatred about mareyada or sant mahapurh of panth ... just beware he can be budhadals singh ....

and regarding my previous post i said 8 lakh members associated with dal panth ... not 8 lakh nihang singhs ... as 8 lakh is very less ... there should be more then 25 lakh fauj even in this forum only ... and may be sava lakh is replying to u know ... :1singh1:

keya samjhe

Stop biging up your dal thing so what if some took amrit from there dont make them special amrit is amrit you make out is extra holy oh they took amrit from your dal and so on , forget dal panth it is NOT A PANTH just a group called Buddha Dal not a Panth - there is only one Panth thats Khalsa Panth - GURU MADE KHALSA ,considering the recent history of this group it has been a knife in the back of the Panth rather than defending it ie Santa siding with Dusht Indira and the abnormal practices and anti Khalistanism in this Dal i consider it has done more damage in the modern age instead of living up to purataan Singhs who were in the dal

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