Bachitter Natak On Muhammad

[AK47 JATHA LION]

Vishnu and Mohammad are not equals.

Mohammad is a prophet, a human and a creation of God but Vishnu is a God.

OK DID EVERYONE JUST READ THIS QUOTE FROM RAJU?

HE JUST CALLED VISHNU GOD....???

Vishnu is a false god. He was a creation of God..given powers which were mis-used to trick people into calling him god. He fell victim to EGO and kaam. And claimed to be God himself. That is why he never escaped the birth death cycle. I have read this.

Of this i am certain.

Chaubis Avtar is very clear in stating how Vishnu is just another mere creation of God and nothing special.

Even more useful in highligting this is Raag Kaliaan (shabad hazare)

Binkartaar na kirtammaano

Aad ajon ajai abnasi teh parmesar jaano. Rahau

kahaa bhaio jo aan jagat mai dasak asur har ghaae.

Adhak parpanch dikhaae sabhan kah apeh Braham kahaae.

bhanjan garhan samrath sadaa prabhh so kim jaat ginaayo.

Tante sarab kaal ke as ko ghai bachai na aayo.

Kaisay toh taar jai sun jar aap dubiyo bhavsaagar.

Chhutyo kaal faas te tabhi gaho saran jagtaagar

(710)

Translation

O man do not worship anything other thann the creator.

Regard god who was from the begining unborn, invincible and indestructable as the supreme being.

what does it matter if VISHNU came into the world and killed the demons?

By showing his wiles to people, he exhorted them to call him God.

How can he (vishnu) be called god, the destroyer, the creator, the omnipotent and the eternal?

He (vishnu) could not save himself from the blow of the sword of death.

You can escape the noose of death only if you seek the defuge of the one who existed before the world came into being.

I couldnt find a online link to a refference so i Typed it up from what i had.

u a very similar translation here also http://www.sikhiwiki.com/index.php/Shabad_Hazarey

if u look at V Rag Kalyan, Patshaei Xth

Vishnu is not GOD, please be careful what u say. You might mislead youngsters on the forum.

[noonespecial]

Cavemen nice to see SOMEONE picked up on it. heh heh

[caveman]

"the four muslims said '' islam is the only true religion''

....Wow. I am shocked to hear that.

whats so shocking about.. when our own right wing sikhs with certain mindset think the same way about sikh dharam being true religion, all others are false?

i agree with the above poster.

all religions lead to one god, just different paths to get there.....

Cavemen nice to see SOMEONE picked up on it. heh heh

thats nice

[H Sengh]

Namstang & Caveman... What is the purpose of Sikh Dharam being created then if all religions lead to the same place?

[N30S1NGH]

Namstang & Caveman... What is the purpose of Sikh Dharam being created then if all religions lead to the same place?

taken from my another post:

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I don't expect anyone to agree with this post. This is what I have learnt from mahapursh literature on sikhi, katha's and personal interaction with them.

All dharams in the world have four layers-

1. Shariat - Outer Rituals, Maryada(limit) so that mind doesnt do any kurahits.

2. Trikat - the way of worship for inner mind's purification

3. Marfat - means knowledge(shud gyan)

4. Hakikat- means realization of supreme reality.

Just look around, most of followers of dharam are stuck in the first and second level. Hardly anyone reaches 3rd or 4th level. Hence, why it doesn't appear to us other dharams have tat gyan as well. All the dharam have mystic traditions where all of them beleive in ultimate reality- naam japna, unconditonal love towards vahiguroo and know secrets of one's self body dasam dvara being nectar. For eg- mystic traditions of christianity - gnostics, they spread all over europen countries acknowledge meditation of vahiguroo, they acknowledge eastern concepts of meditation stages - naam automatically happening at the dasam dwara.

Just how Sikhi have Gurmat Advait Sidhant, other dharams have also mystic traditions which beleives in same tat gyan like christianity have gnostics, Islam has sufism/shiaism, Buddhism have zen, trvide buddhism, hinduism have advait vedanta, Ramanuja, Madhva, Nimbarka, Vallabha, Kashmiri Shaviasm, Gautamvaida.

Ultimately, one can reach akaal purkh via these mystic traditions of all the dharams, reaching hakikat state within their own dharam.

Now what advantage Sikh Dharam have over other dharam is a) its very brand new dharam which gurbani being non altered compare to other scriptures despite of many failed attempted of internal bhausaria panthis. b) As some of other mystic traditions of dharamas focus more on sargun upasana to get to ultimate goal of nirgun, Gurmat straight focuses on nirgun via shabad marg and advait prem bhagti/gyan marg c) Gurbani have very straight- parchand tat gyan not clouded by shariat rules unlike other dharam scriptures which also have tat gyan but are clouded by shariat rituals( karam kaands).

Dhur Ki Bani in Sri Akaal Ustat is big slap to karam kaandis regardless of their dharam, attaching us straight to advaita gyan- Nirgun Paratama.

All this above points we should be quite proud of, but having pride of above advantages of Gurmat over other mat is one thing but preserving this pride is another. Unfortunately, looking at the sad state of affairs of sikhs these days, it appears they are making the panth more in dubta whether its do with bhausaria panthis creating unnecessary doubts over gurbani in sri guru granth sahib ji and sri dasam granth sahib ji, bhai gurdas ji varan..sometimes even rejection or to do with idiolizing their tribalism over the ultimate goal.

At this point where it stands we are failing to preserve this pride of Gurmat but instead more interested in bhandi parchar, we have made putting down other dharams without reading their mystic traditions as our panthic mahan seva. I am sure Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji is waiting for us to give us sairopa on the other end.

I ll end my ranting with quote from sri sukhmani sahib ji by sri guru arjan dev ji, i m sure this quote will be Psychoanalysed by premis here because it defeats their agenda:

ਸਰਬ ਧਰਮ ਮਹਿ ਸ੍ਰੇਸਟ ਧਰਮੁ ॥

sarab dhharam mehi sraesatt dhharam ||

Of all religions, the best religion

13 Gaurhee Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev

ਹਰਿ ਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਿ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਕਰਮੁ ॥

har ko naam jap niramal karam ||

is to chant the Name of the Lord and maintain pure conduct.

13 Gaurhee Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev

ਸਗਲ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਮਹਿ ਊਤਮ ਕਿਰਿਆ ॥

sagal kiraaa mehi ootham kiriaa ||

Of all religious rituals, the most sublime ritual

13 Gaurhee Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev

ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਦੁਰਮਤਿ ਮਲੁ ਹਿਰਿਆ ॥

saadhhasang dhuramath mal hiriaa ||

is to erase the filth of the dirty mind in the Company of the Holy.

14 Gaurhee Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev

ਸਗਲ ਉਦਮ ਮਹਿ ਉਦਮੁ ਭਲਾ ॥

sagal oudham mehi oudham bhalaa ||

Of all efforts, the best effort

14 Gaurhee Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev

ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਹੁ ਜੀਅ ਸਦਾ ॥

har kaa naam japahu jeea sadhaa ||

is to chant the Name of the Lord in the heart, forever.

14 Gaurhee Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev

ਸਗਲ ਬਾਨੀ ਮਹਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਾਨੀ ॥

sagal baanee mehi anmrith baanee ||

Of all speech, the most ambrosial speech

15 Gaurhee Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev

ਹਰਿ ਕੋ ਜਸੁ ਸੁਨਿ ਰਸਨ ਬਖਾਨੀ ॥

har ko jas sun rasan bakhaanee ||

is to hear the Lord's Praise and chant it with the tongue.

15 Gaurhee Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev

ਸਗਲ ਥਾਨ ਤੇ ਓਹੁ ਊਤਮ ਥਾਨੁ ॥

sagal thhaan thae ouhu ootham thhaan ||

Of all places, the most sublime place,

15 Gaurhee Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev

ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਹ ਘਟਿ ਵਸੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ॥੮॥੩॥

naanak jih ghatt vasai har naam ||8||3||

O Nanak, is that heart in which the Name of the Lord abides. ||8||3|

/Here is another one from Sri Akaal Ustat:

Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji goes far as saying atma doesnt have anything dharam or karam and along with other rituals..

ਜਿਮੀ ਜਮਾਨ ਕੇ ਬਿਖੈ ਸਮਸਤ ਏਕ ਜੋਤਿ ਹੈ ॥

जिमी जमान के बिखै समसत एक जोति है ॥

Within all the earth and sky, there is only one Light.

ਨ ਘਾਟ ਹੈ ਨ ਬਾਢ ਹੈ ਨ ਘਾਟ ਬਾਢ ਹੋਤ ਹੈ ॥

न घाट है न बाढ है न घाट बाढ होत है ॥

Which neither decreases nor increases in any being, It never decreases or increases.

ਨ ਹਾਨ ਹੈ ਨ ਬਾਨ ਹੈ ਸਮਾਨ ਰੂਪ ਜਾਨੀਐ ॥

न हान है न बान है समान रूप जानीऐ ॥

It is without decadence and without habit, it is known to have the same form.

ਮਕੀਨ ਅਉ ਮਕਾਨ ਅਪ੍ਰਮਾਨ ਤੇਜ ਮਾਨੀਐ ॥੬॥੧੬੬॥

मकीन अउ मकान अप्रमान तेज मानीऐ ॥६॥१६६॥

In all houses and places its unlimited brilliance is acknowledged. 6.166.

ਨ ਦੇਹ ਹੈ ਨ ਗੇਹ ਹੈ ਨ ਜਾਤਿ ਹੈ ਨ ਪਾਤਿ ਹੈ ॥

न देह है न गेह है न जाति है न पाति है ॥

He hath no body, no home, no caste and no lineage.

ਨ ਮੰਤ੍ਰਿ ਹੈ ਨ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਹੈ ਨ ਤਾਤ ਹੈ ਨ ਮਾਤ ਹੈ ॥

न मंत्रि है न मित्र है न तात है न मात है ॥

He hath no minister, no friend, no father and no mother.

ਨ ਅੰਗ ਹੈ ਨ ਰੰਗ ਹੈ ਨ ਸੰਗ ਹੈ ਨ ਸਾਥ ਹੈ ॥

न अंग है न रंग है न संग है न साथ है ॥

He hath no limb, no colour, and hath no affection for a companion.

ਨ ਦੋਖ ਹੈ ਨ ਦਾਗ ਹੈ ਨ ਦ੍ਵੈਖ ਹੈ ਨ ਦੇਹ ਹੈ ॥੭॥੧੬੭॥

न दोख है न दाग है न द्वैख है न देह है ॥७॥१६७॥

He hath no blemish, no stain, no malice and no body.7.167.

ਨ ਸਿੰਘ ਹੈ ਨ ਸਯਾਰ ਹੈ ਨ ਰਾਉ ਹੈ ਨ ਰੰਕ ਹੈ ॥

न सिंघ है न सयार है न राउ है न रंक है ॥

He is neither a lion, nor a jackal, nor a king nor a poor.

ਨ ਮਾਨ ਹੈ ਨ ਮੌਤ ਹੈ ਨ ਸਾਕ ਹੈ ਨ ਸੰਕ ਹੈ ॥

न मान है न मौत है न साक है न संक है ॥

He egoless, deathless, kinless and doubtless.

ਨ ਜੱਛ ਹੈ ਨ ਗੰਧ੍ਰਬ ਹੈ ਨ ਨਰੁ ਹੈ ਨ ਨਾਰਿ ਹੈ ॥

न ज्छ है न गंध्रब है न नरु है न नारि है ॥

He is neither a Yaksha, nor a Gandharva, nor a man nor a woman.

ਨ ਚੋਰ ਹੈ ਨ ਸਾਹ ਹੈ ਨ ਸਾਹ ਕੋ ਕੁਮਾਰ ਹੈ ॥੮॥੧੬੮॥

न चोर है न साह है न साह को कुमार है ॥८॥१६८॥

He is neither a thief, nor a moneylender nor a prince.8.168.

ਨ ਨੇਹ ਹੈ ਨ ਗੇਹ ਹੈ ਨ ਦੇਹ ਕੋ ਬਨਾਉ ਹੈ ॥

न नेह है न गेह है न देह को बनाउ है ॥

He is without attachment, without home and without the formation of the body.

ਨ ਛਲ ਹੈ ਨ ਛਿਦ੍ਰ ਹੈ ਨ ਛਲ ਕੋ ਮਿਲਾਉ ਹੈ ॥

न छल है न छिद्र है न छल को मिलाउ है ॥

He is without deceit, without blemish and without the blend of deceit.

ਨ ਤੰਤ੍ਰ ਹੈ ਨ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਹੈ ਨ ਜੰਤ੍ਰ ਕੋ ਸਰੂਪ ਹੈ ॥

न तंत्र है न मंत्र है न जंत्र को सरूप है ॥

He is neither Tantra , nor a mantra nor the form of Yantra.

ਨ ਰਾਗ ਹੈ ਨ ਰੰਗ ਹੈ ਨ ਰੇਖ ਹੈ ਨ ਰੂਪ ਹੈ ॥੯॥੧੬੯॥

न राग है न रंग है न रेख है न रूप है ॥९॥१६९॥

He is without affection, without colour, without form and without lineage. 9.169.

ਨ ਜੰਤ੍ਰ ਹੈ ਨ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਹੈ ਨ ਤੰਤ੍ਰ ਕੋ ਬਨਾਉ ਹੈ ॥

न जंत्र है न मंत्र है न तंत्र को बनाउ है ॥

He is neither a Yantra, nor a Mantra nor the formation of a Tantra.

ਨ ਛਲ ਹੈ ਨ ਛਿਦ੍ਰ ਹੈ ਨ ਛਾਇਆ ਕੋ ਮਿਲਾਉ ਹੈ ॥

न छल है न छिद्र है न छाइआ को मिलाउ है ॥

He is without deceit, without blemish and without the blend of ignorance.

ਨ ਰਾਗ ਹੈ ਨ ਰੰਗ ਹੈ ਨ ਰੂਪ ਹੈ ਨ ਰੇਖ ਹੈ ॥

न राग है न रंग है न रूप है न रेख है ॥

He is without affection, without colour, without form and without line.

ਨ ਕਰਮ ਹੈ ਨ ਧਰਮ ਹੈ ਅਜਨਮ ਹੈ ਅਭੇਖ ਹੈ ॥੧੦॥੧੭੦॥

न करम है न धरम है अजनम है अभेख है ॥१०॥१७०॥

He is actionless, religionless, birthless and guiseless. 10.170

over and out !

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[caveman]

Namstang & Caveman... What is the purpose of Sikh Dharam being created then if all religions lead to the same place?

whyyyy dont you explain the answer seeing as you must know it by the way you seem to put this question accross....

[Raju]

Why do you say Vishnu was bad or so & so was bad. But Shiv was better.

Vishnu is the leader of the vaishnavas, the sect to which most Brahmins belong and thus breed hatred amongst others, probably with good reason.

Personally I do not judge Gods, its rather pointless like ants judging Elephants. It is simply not possible because we do not know all the variables we are dealing with in case of Gods .. no matter how much we have read and discussed them.

I just think these Gods are some kind of aliens and leave it at that.

[H Sengh]

Namstang & Caveman... What is the purpose of Sikh Dharam being created then if all religions lead to the same place?

whyyyy dont you explain the answer seeing as you must know it by the way you seem to put this question accross....

Im just curious. Im not disagreeing or agreeing with all religions leading to same place. Just wanted to know what is the purpose of many religions if that is the case?

[Mehtab Singh]

Once I was listening to Maskeen jee's katha. Maskeen jee stated that the only true panth is prem panth, and even a non-Sikh, like a Jew or a Christian or a Muslim who has prem can achieve the supreme spiritual goal. Guru Gobind Singh Jee's words "jinn prem kiyo tinn hi prabh paayo" (whoever loves achieves God) were also discussed.

I have talked to a few GurSikhs about the difference between the semitic belief that their faith is the passport to heaven, and how GurSikhi sees it. The main difference is that in Sikhi, a person is not condemned just because he/she is a non-Sikh. The Gurus didn't condemn any religion. Guru Nanak Dev Jee was asked about the end result of Hindus and Muslims, as in who will be saved. Gurujee said "shubh amlaa baajo dono roi", "both will cry if they haven't done good deeds", so we need to understand that Gurujee was not prejudiced against any religion at all.

Now the other question "What happens to non-Sikhs". From what I have been told, a good devout Hindu, a good devout Muslim, a good devout Christian doesn't go to hell just because he/she is not Sikh. The thing is that the Hindu gets what he/she aimed for, which could be the deity he/she worshipped. And so he/she goes there, enjoys the fruits of his/her good deeds, but eventually has to come back into the cycle of reincarnation as liberation comes only through Naam from the SatGuru. The Muslims and Christians aim for heaven, and they may achieve it too, but they too don't get liberated. The GurSikh on the other hand has Gurjee to free him.

This is what I have come across. Its not my opinion, just what I have grasped. If I made any mistake please forgive me.

[Mehtab Singh]

Video is back up : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDHTvrJsvL0