Death..

[harjit nanua]

Wjkk Wjkf,

Dear all,

I have some info about death and would be more than greteful if I could be helped in understanding the 5 khands...

Author: Kulbir Singh

Date: 08-18-03 07:53

Someone mentioned that Khands are merely spiritual states and not

actual realms where Bhagats reside. According to Gurbani (Siri Jap jee

Sahib) there are 5 khands above our place of dwelling i.e. this world

including solar system and other stars we see.

DHARAM KHAND

Pauri 34 of Siri Jap jee Sahib explains Dharam Khand. This is the

khand where our soul goes to after death. This is where Dharam Rai is

stationed. Almost every religion explains this khand in some form or

the other. This Khand is huge and this is where heavens and hells are.

Dharam Rai has an army of millions and millions jammdoots who control

the whole Dharam Khand. Siri Jap jee Sahib summarizes this Khand as

follows:

There are countless seasons, waters, fires, fires and low-lands like

Pataal. Amidst such wide variety of things is the land of Dharam

Khand. There countless kind of creatures reside. These creatures are

there suffering punishments or getting rewarded for their good deeds.

Everybody is judged according to their deeds done on Karam Bhoomi (our

Earth or likes of it). The darbar of Dharam Rai is based on truth.

Panch Jan i.e. the accepted Gursikhs get recognition and respect

there. Such Gursikhs are recognised by the nishaan (symbol, or mark)

on their forehead that appears as we do bhagtee of True Naam. All this

may seem like fiction here but once we get there, we will realize how

true it is (Nanak, Gaiyaan jaapai jaaye).

GYAAN KHAND

No matter who one is, everyone has to come to Dharam Khand. Gursikhs

go there as well as Manmukhs. The difference is that when the Gursikhs

arrive there, no record of them is found there and because of the

divine mark on their forehead, they are very well respected there.

Manmukhs on the other hand get stiff punishments there and are sent to

hell and thereafter back to earth to go through the 8.4 million forms,

depending on their karma.

Gursikhs and other good people who are above heaven move on to the

next khand i.e. Gyaan Khand. This is a very huge Khand and references

to this Khand too are found in various religious books. This is where

most of the prophets and saints of other religions fall.

The ones who worship Siri Krishna, Vishnu jee, Shiv jee, and

Mohammadans etc. fall in this Khand. This is where Baikunth i.e.

residing place of Siri Krishna and his devotees, Buddha, and other

great religious leaders are. This place is very beautiful and there

are countless Krishna, Shiv jees, Buddhas there. The bhagats like Dhru

reside in this Khand. This Khand is very great Khand and only

fortunate ones reach here. The only drawback is that the residents of

this Khand are not eternal. When Vaheguru takes back his creation,

this Khand gets destroyed.

SHARAM KHAND, KARAM KHAND AND SACH KHAND

This is the third Khand and hereon it is impossible to describe the

Khands. Sharam Khand and the two Khands above this i.e. Karam Khand

and Sach Khand are beyond description. One thing is for sure that the

way we are today, we cannot comprehend anything there in Sharam Khand.

For this reason when one reaches this Khand, one gets new senses,

mind, intelligence and surti. The reason is that with old senses and

mann, budh, we cannot comprehend anything there. Sharam Khand is

essential for Bhagats before they can enter Karam Khand and Sach

Khand. Sharam Khand is like prep Khand for entering Karam Khand and

Sach Khand. This Khand is extremely beautiful. Everything there is

just too beautiful to describe. Guru Sahib just says that no one

should bother to describe anything there as it would be futile and

such person who tries to say anything about this Khand have to regret.

Karam Khand and Sach Khand exist in such fashion as a house and

varaandaah exist. Varaandah is like the outskirts of a house but

within the boundery of the property. Normally the top of the varandaah

is ceiling. From Karam Khand one can view the inside of the house and

know what is going on inside but can’t go inside. There is immense

Anand (Bliss) in this Khand. Only real warriors who have subdued all

bikaars can enter this Khand. This Khand – Karam Khand is accessible

mostly to Gursikhs of Guru Nanak Dev jee but some rare ones who do

kamaayee of Kirtam Naam (qualitative names like Raam, Gobind etc.) and

give their best shot to it, but are not Gursikhs of Guru Nanak can

reach Karam Khand. Both Karam Khand and Sach Khand are eternal Khands.

Sachkhand is accessible only to Gursikhs. There Vaheguru resides in

comprehensible form to Gursikhs. Gursikhs stay absorbed in the bliss

of Darshan of Vaheguru. Sach Khand is huge and the whole creation

including other 4 Khands are within Sach Khand. Sach Khand surrounds

the whole creation and is inside the whole creation. In essence Sach

Khand is Vaheguru himself. In Sach Khand, the bhagats don’t lose their

identity. The Ten Gurus occupy the top position along with Vaheguru.

It is futile to write anything about it. Guru Nanak Sahib has written

that to describe Sach Khand is like chewing iron (Nanak, Kathna

KaraRaa Saar).

Dasam Duaar is a shortcut to Sach Khand. It is like a door to Sach

Khand. Sitting here, one can have all the Anand of Sach Khand and know

what is going on there.

_________________________________________________________________

My questions are such :

when we die, our souls are greeted by jaamdoots... if we are manmukhs,

then we are beaten all the way to dharam khand... if we are gurmukhs,

are we still greeted by jaamdoots?

In dharam khand, our deeds are read out by chit and gupt... and Dharam

raaj passes his judgement.... Gurmuks are spared from this, since they

have a sign on their foreheads... right? And based on the judgement,

manmukhs are sent to hell and back to earth...

The next realm is the gyaan khand for gurmukhs... This is where we are

given divine knowledge right? But why is this realm not eternal?

Next is the saram khand... is it a prep khand before moving into the

last two khands... What exactly happens here,,,

NExt is karam khand... karam khand ki banee jor... why? why is banee

jor here? why is it so close to sach khand but not sach khand? what

happens here?

And finally sach khand...

Question... sach khand is where all gurmukhs go..and they will pass by

all 4 khands on the way... meaning, no one will forever remain in

saram khand, karam khand and gyan khand right?

question : where is dasam duar...?

All this has something to do with a concept of Third Eye.. what is

this comcept.?

please do help me understanding japji....

ps _ attached is a great article i found from the net.,..

Reincarnation_of_a_ghost_ENG.pdf

[fresh singh]

.

[guptveer1469]

Nice that you are taking the step of trying to understand Sri Japji Sahib.

Many questions for once, Veerji.

Q: When we die, our souls are greeted by jaamdoots... if we are manmukhs,

then we are beaten all the way to dharam khand... if we are gurmukhs,

are we still greeted by jaamdoots?

Jamdoots don't have the power/capacity to come near Gurmukhs. Once a person does much Gurbani no thing can harm or come near him, such as ghosts, jamdoots etc.

Q: In dharam khand, our deeds are read out by chit and gupt... and Dharam

raaj passes his judgement.... Gurmuks are spared from this, since they

have a sign on their foreheads... right? And based on the judgement,

manmukhs are sent to hell and back to earth...

Yes, you are right.

Q: The next realm is the gyaan khand for gurmukhs... This is where we are

given divine knowledge right? But why is this realm not eternal?

I think the question of Gyan Khan not being eternal is a deep question and should be left for the Gyani Ji's.

Q: Next is the saram khand... is it a prep khand before moving into the

last two khands... What exactly happens here,,,

Saram means humility. The people that reach here are the people that do things without having a motivation for something. This is indeed a prep Khand before moving onto the last two khands.

Q: NExt is karam khand... karam khand ki banee jor... why? why is banee

jor here? why is it so close to sach khand but not sach khand? what

happens here?

The people that have the courage to speak up to tyranny aswell as having the qualities of the previous Khands may reach this Khand. This and Sach Khand are the highest Khands, and the only ones that are eternal.

Q: Sach khand is where all gurmukhs go..and they will pass by

all 4 khands on the way... meaning, no one will forever remain in

saram khand, karam khand and gyan khand right?

I am not sure about this question though. I don't think Brahmgyanis like Baba Deep Singh Ji or Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale needed to go through such khands as they were already one with Akaal on earth. But I think someone else better clarify about this question.

Q: where is dasam duar...?

Dasam Dwar means "the Tenth gate". There are nine open gates in the human body (2 ears, 2 nostrils, 2 eyes, mouth and 2 private parts). The tenth is located on the top of the head, from which the soul can enter and leave the body. The Dasam Dwar is the place where the Keshdhari/Amritdhari Singh(ni)s do their Joora on.

Q: All this has something to do with a concept of Third Eye.. what is

this comcept.?

As far as I know the third eye has nothing to do with Sikhi.

Bhul Chuk Maaf,

WJKK WJKF

[harjit nanua]

I understand more now....thank you so much...

wjkk wjkf..

Thank you thank you

[alias]

gurfateh ji,

some of the questions that you have asked, are very hard to explain/cant be explained e.g. saram khand onwards. thats what bani says.(and from the gurmukhs that iv talked to.)

Q. when we die, our souls are greeted by jaamdoots... if we are manmukhs,

then we are beaten all the way to dharam khand... if we are gurmukhs,

are we still greeted by jaamdoots?

A. we are not greated by jumdoots, but angels. real true solid gurmukhs get taken on a paalki by angels, with the most heavenly of keertan being played and degh.(yes theres degh-karah prashaad!- in heaven!) and then when they get to dharam khand, which is like a waiting 'room' to go and get judged. there is bani where it is stated that the people that dont jup naam WITH THEIR TONGUE get spat on their face(thook mukh paeyya), while the gurmukhs are recognised from the tilak on their forhead, i.e. their kamai (-mathe jo likiyaas- in baaramaha maaj.) because the forhead is only of this world, we are made from mitti.

as a side note,

i have heard of munmukhs that die get dragged and questioned by the jamdoots. (before they even reach dharamraaj- due to i think dharam raaj sending these doots down to question him.) the description is very very graphic.and its a true story. within the last 1 to 5 years i think. (and the person did his 5 bania just as normal and basically, he was normal! cant remember if he was amritdhaari..) but he was questioned by these jamdoots. sant came and said 'let him go, he is ours, it is not his time.' he was questioned about his bad deeds in his past lives. we dont know what past baggage we are carrying! so do as much as you can is what i say!

another thing, there is a sakhi i heard of guru naanak dev ji, it goes that there war a really bad person, and when he was about to die, this bad persons mates (2of them) were discussing what was going to happen to him. guru naanak dev ji heard them and said to bhai mardaana ji-watch!. guru naanak dev ji in an instant washed away his bad karam at the moment just before death. so these 2 mates that were discussing the bad persons fatestop talking and looked in the direction of the bad person. there were awe struck by what they saw. what had happened was that the jumdoots and the devi devte both came to collect him! the doots were saying he is ours and bound for hell due to his bad actions. the devi devte said, but he has no karam, he is ours. and the 2 mates were looking totally awe struck!(because guru naanak dev ji gave them the eyes to see this happen.--------funnily enough, i cant remember what happened to the person! >>a side observation, in this saakhi, the doots and the devis came here i.e. to this world, and the muslims say that on that spot where the peoson dies is where the weighings of good and baad happen. just a side point<<

Q. In dharam khand, our deeds are read out by chit and gupt... and Dharam

raaj passes his judgement.... Gurmuks are spared from this, since they

have a sign on their foreheads... right? And based on the judgement,

manmukhs are sent to hell and back to earth...

A. i will start by telling you somthing that i am still reasearching and have not yet found. there are 5 files inside that one by one go and give the file of our life to dharam raaj. (btw, when our laikha is taken we dont have to say anything. we get read, hence the 5 files.) i imagine the files having feet and arms like in the movies! it helps with understanding!but this is so far a work in progress for me. maybe you can try to find out as well and then message me! but back to the question.

from my reasearch, there are three main routes that can be taken from dharamraaj and a forth that is reserved for the best of souls. we live life and die and end up at dharamraajz door/desk. FIRST, if we have an excess of good deeds we go into heaven (for a while, then we get chucked back into charasi lakh joon), SECOND, if there is an excess of bad deeds, we go to hell and get proper chitthar and beats and then, we get chucked back into charasi lakh joon. THIRD, we just get chucked back into charasi lakh joon. BUT THE FOURTH, this is where we have no karam. naam washes away/destroys bad deeds and neutrilises good deeds. now. this is where dharamraaj doesnt know what to do, so you just walk through. (question arises of where does this person go.. il answer this in a bit...)......so you just walk through. dharamraaj cant do anything because the laikha is ripped. by the way, this is what sant mahapursh are so importent. they can pump you so much with naam and/or they use their own kamai to rip your your laikha. they can reset your slate. no pun. no paap. (paap pun doe ek samaan- sggs)

this person that has no laikha goes past dharamraj and then get to see god. here is the end.

another question comes of, where does he go from there?

from what iv researched, he gets asked a question by god. god is so happy that he asks the question, oh my son, what do you wish??

from what iv researched, there are 3 possible answers.

1. ask for raaj. (kingship in the world) this is what aurangzeb asked from god when he got asked this question. but thats a different story.

2.ask for bhagti. (naam of the lord) this is what sant baba nand singh ji asked from god when they got asked this question from god. they then became a great (such a great!) bhagat.

these 2 both end you up in the world again. but the third,

3. ask for charan kamal. (the feet of god) this is the true end. sehej anand. reunited...etc.. this is what it means by 'bees ikees' to mearge with, dissolve inside the 'forever one'. 'ikees'. ikees is a very hard word to translate...

i will tell you now, this info is very very keemati and its taken so long for me to just know this!(so big, but so little when you compare it to infinity). so few people have figured this out, and even less understand it. i say, just do naam and all wil be answered!

Q. The next realm is the gyaan khand for gurmukhs... This is where we are

given divine knowledge right? But why is this realm not eternal?

A. very good q dude! there comes a point in a persons avasta where he must leave everything, language, feelings, knoledge and the mind. all must be left behind, and then one will/must just go on naam. this is why, 'sggs- jun ki taek, har naam tekayyia.'

even knowledge must be left behind to dissolve into the timeless lord.

Q. Next is the saram khand... is it a prep khand before moving into the

last two khands... What exactly happens here.

A. as far as i know, this is where anand starts. this is why this place cannot be described.. hence to describe the ongoings of anand is very hard. thats it..

Q. NExt is karam khand... karam khand ki banee jor... why? why is banee

jor here? why is it so close to sach khand but not sach khand? what

happens here?

A. in such khand (as well as this place), things cannot be described. thats why its hard to say what happens here. try describing a concept say... humility, then try describing a feeling say... intense love or even hate... hard init? so to describe somthing that is literally out of this world, is impossible.

baani can be said to get you to this khand as this khand is the roop of bani. this khand looks like bani!..

as explained before, one must let everything go to get to god.this is why this khand is 'positioned' here. (it doesent say 'subh saump' for nothing!) and im sure that there are other reasons unknown to me regarding the positioning of the khands. that is a question in itself which i do not know.. i.e. >>why are the khands positioned the way they are<<

ask a gurmukh though, and i bet they will say, somthing like, "do you ask why you have 2 eyes, or 2 arms/feet/legs/a boy....?" the simplt truth is that i truely cannot be explained because, once somthing is explained, it is explained. it is finished. it had ended. and god/baani/etc.. is beyant! endless! this endless-ness is described in the japji sahib.

Q. And finally sach khand...

Question... sach khand is where all gurmukhs go..and they will pass by

all 4 khands on the way... meaning, no one will forever remain in

saram khand, karam khand and gyan khand right?

A.the world, this game will one day end. therefore, if the correct choices are made by people, and if they are not corrupted, (and alot of more ifs and buts..) then they will ultimately dissolve into god. as per their origional goal. if you didnt know, hel and heven are not at all perminant places.the only perminant place is with god.

Q. question : where is dasam duar...?

A. whre the 5 pyaare put the amrit in your head. where the top most part of your skull is. -sggs, sir oopar taada gur soora...- but be aware of this gat aswell! even this gate people can get stuck in!! -sggs, ik girhu das dwaar hai ja ke-

through this doorway, is heaven and god.

Q. All this has something to do with a concept of Third Eye.. what is

this comcept.?

A. the concept of the third eye exists. (just because its in hinduism dont hake it wrong..)

it is in the middle of the forehead (people commonly mistake this as the dasam dwaar.)

guru tells people, yogis mainly, to stop concentrating on the left and right nerves (forgot to tell you that theres 3 'nerves' in the center of the forhead. they have been named accordingly.. left, right and center. the center, is the sukhmana, the left and right are ida and pingula) which is why, i think, that the swami dude raamdev does that weird thing with the nose...

guru says forget the left and right buisness and concentrate on the center. it is in gurbani..can find it 4 u.

the whole and main idea is that you concentrate with your surti, because it is your surti that is going to(if your lucky!) mearge/dissolve with god. -sggs, subh surti mil surat kamai-

i hope i have sufficiently answered your qz..

gurfateh singho..

we should meet u no!

iv been wanting a sollid conversation with a person for a while!

and so sorry for the massive post. the surperb questions are to blame!

gurfateh ji...

[big5abi]

Dharam Khan, the realm of justice; the physical universe also known as pind. Dharam is always a difficult word to translate since it encopasses more meaning than any one word in english.

Guru Nanak says that the souls in dharam khand are subject to seasons and the passage of time, and are enveloped by matter. Creatures of various forms, shapes and kinds live jere, bearing diverse and endless names, all of whom are judged by their actions.

Gyan Khand, the realm of knowledge; described as a vast region with many continents, worlds and underworlds, with numerous suns, moons and stars, an inhabitied by angels, gods, goddesses and deities, corresponding to the worlds of mind that lie beyond the eye center. It is called gyan khand because the realms of the mind are primarily blissful regions of diversity and activity that the soul and mind perceive with great interest, understanding and knowledge, rather than the deepest love and devotion. Knowledge of this realm also provides deep understanding of how things occur in the physical universe.

Saram Khand, the realm of bliss. the soulnd of this region, says Guru Nanak, is full of beauty and attraction. this is a land of indescribable beauty and splendour. All aspects of mind originate from here in fine and subtleform.

Karam Khand, land of compassion, the land of mercy, the land of grace; the spiritual region beyond the mind, but below sach khand. the land of spirit, love and divine grace, experienced when the soul ascends above the realms of mind and matter. Within the realms of the mind, the prevailing law is that of causality, justice, automatic action and reaction. beyond that, the prevailing reality is that of love, compassion, forgiveness and grace.

According to Guru Nanak, the sound of karam khand is full of power and force. Here, duality ends and the soul realizes by experience that it is a drop of pure spirit. Only brave and courageous souls reach here, that is, those devoees who havevanquished the forces of mind and maya. here, their being is engrossed only by God, and they enjoy unmitigated bliss.

Sach Khand, the realm of truth; the realm of real or true existence; the eternal realm; the land of eternal truth; the soul's true home, also called sat desh by some indian mystics. Guru Nanak says that the formless Lord resides and presides here; from here, He surveys His entire creation within which His will or order reigns supreme; the glory of this realm of supreme bliss is ineffable, and Guru Nanak says that the wonders of this place are very difficult to describe.

[big5abi]

To answer your question about Daswan Dwar:

Daswan Dwar is said to be the realm of true or mystic self-realization, thought the soul has yet to realize its identity with God. the soul at this stage has also received liberation from the wheel of birth and death.

Kabir speaking of India's Sadhus says:

A (true) (holyman) is he who conquers this fort(trikuti) going beyond the nine manifested doors to the tenth, he opens that which is locked.

the human form is also described by mystics as a city with nine gates. The nine sensory openings lead out while one, the tenth gate, leads inward. It's the gateway from the physical to the astral.

I hope this helps...

[foolish]

wjkk wjkf

brothers and sisters i have question, it has been in my mind for some time. i know what will happen if you are a complete manmukh and try and live to fulfil your minds desires.

and i know what happens if you are like sant baba thakur singh jee, bhai rama singh jee and other great great souls who were constantly in tune with the creator

say u are one of the normal ppl who are not this great spiritual level,but are aware of the 5 chor and try to avoid them but sometimes get caught out. what if a person is amritdhari , keeps his rehat and does him nitnem rehraas and sohila daily. works 40hrs a week ,raises a family and visits the gurdwara with sharada and piaar 2-3 times a week, but doesnt drink smoke eat meat and remains faithful to their spouse and lives life as honestly as posible, but never reaches the spiritual heights.

what happens to this person? do they come back as humans? as sikhs, or have they too missed the chance of this life and end up in charasi lakh joon

please brothers and sisters enlighten this fool

phul chuk maaf

[harjit nanua]

gurfateh ji,

some of the questions that you have asked, are very hard to explain/cant be explained e.g. saram khand onwards. thats what bani says.(and from the gurmukhs that iv talked to.)

Q. when we die, our souls are greeted by jaamdoots... if we are manmukhs,

then we are beaten all the way to dharam khand... if we are gurmukhs,

are we still greeted by jaamdoots?

A. we are not greated by jumdoots, but angels. real true solid gurmukhs get taken on a paalki by angels, with the most heavenly of keertan being played and degh.(yes theres degh-karah prashaad!- in heaven!) and then when they get to dharam khand, which is like a waiting 'room' to go and get judged. there is bani where it is stated that the people that dont jup naam WITH THEIR TONGUE get spat on their face(thook mukh paeyya), while the gurmukhs are recognised from the tilak on their forhead, i.e. their kamai (-mathe jo likiyaas- in baaramaha maaj.) because the forhead is only of this world, we are made from mitti.

as a side note,

i have heard of munmukhs that die get dragged and questioned by the jamdoots. (before they even reach dharamraaj- due to i think dharam raaj sending these doots down to question him.) the description is very very graphic.and its a true story. within the last 1 to 5 years i think. (and the person did his 5 bania just as normal and basically, he was normal! cant remember if he was amritdhaari..) but he was questioned by these jamdoots. sant came and said 'let him go, he is ours, it is not his time.' he was questioned about his bad deeds in his past lives. we dont know what past baggage we are carrying! so do as much as you can is what i say!

another thing, there is a sakhi i heard of guru naanak dev ji, it goes that there war a really bad person, and when he was about to die, this bad persons mates (2of them) were discussing what was going to happen to him. guru naanak dev ji heard them and said to bhai mardaana ji-watch!. guru naanak dev ji in an instant washed away his bad karam at the moment just before death. so these 2 mates that were discussing the bad persons fatestop talking and looked in the direction of the bad person. there were awe struck by what they saw. what had happened was that the jumdoots and the devi devte both came to collect him! the doots were saying he is ours and bound for hell due to his bad actions. the devi devte said, but he has no karam, he is ours. and the 2 mates were looking totally awe struck!(because guru naanak dev ji gave them the eyes to see this happen.--------funnily enough, i cant remember what happened to the person! >>a side observation, in this saakhi, the doots and the devis came here i.e. to this world, and the muslims say that on that spot where the peoson dies is where the weighings of good and baad happen. just a side point<<

Q. In dharam khand, our deeds are read out by chit and gupt... and Dharam

raaj passes his judgement.... Gurmuks are spared from this, since they

have a sign on their foreheads... right? And based on the judgement,

manmukhs are sent to hell and back to earth...

A. i will start by telling you somthing that i am still reasearching and have not yet found. there are 5 files inside that one by one go and give the file of our life to dharam raaj. (btw, when our laikha is taken we dont have to say anything. we get read, hence the 5 files.) i imagine the files having feet and arms like in the movies! it helps with understanding!but this is so far a work in progress for me. maybe you can try to find out as well and then message me! but back to the question.

from my reasearch, there are three main routes that can be taken from dharamraaj and a forth that is reserved for the best of souls. we live life and die and end up at dharamraajz door/desk. FIRST, if we have an excess of good deeds we go into heaven (for a while, then we get chucked back into charasi lakh joon), SECOND, if there is an excess of bad deeds, we go to hell and get proper chitthar and beats and then, we get chucked back into charasi lakh joon. THIRD, we just get chucked back into charasi lakh joon. BUT THE FOURTH, this is where we have no karam. naam washes away/destroys bad deeds and neutrilises good deeds. now. this is where dharamraaj doesnt know what to do, so you just walk through. (question arises of where does this person go.. il answer this in a bit...)......so you just walk through. dharamraaj cant do anything because the laikha is ripped. by the way, this is what sant mahapursh are so importent. they can pump you so much with naam and/or they use their own kamai to rip your your laikha. they can reset your slate. no pun. no paap. (paap pun doe ek samaan- sggs)

this person that has no laikha goes past dharamraj and then get to see god. here is the end.

another question comes of, where does he go from there?

from what iv researched, he gets asked a question by god. god is so happy that he asks the question, oh my son, what do you wish??

from what iv researched, there are 3 possible answers.

1. ask for raaj. (kingship in the world) this is what aurangzeb asked from god when he got asked this question. but thats a different story.

2.ask for bhagti. (naam of the lord) this is what sant baba nand singh ji asked from god when they got asked this question from god. they then became a great (such a great!) bhagat.

these 2 both end you up in the world again. but the third,

3. ask for charan kamal. (the feet of god) this is the true end. sehej anand. reunited...etc.. this is what it means by 'bees ikees' to mearge with, dissolve inside the 'forever one'. 'ikees'. ikees is a very hard word to translate...

i will tell you now, this info is very very keemati and its taken so long for me to just know this!(so big, but so little when you compare it to infinity). so few people have figured this out, and even less understand it. i say, just do naam and all wil be answered!

Q. The next realm is the gyaan khand for gurmukhs... This is where we are

given divine knowledge right? But why is this realm not eternal?

A. very good q dude! there comes a point in a persons avasta where he must leave everything, language, feelings, knoledge and the mind. all must be left behind, and then one will/must just go on naam. this is why, 'sggs- jun ki taek, har naam tekayyia.'

even knowledge must be left behind to dissolve into the timeless lord.

Q. Next is the saram khand... is it a prep khand before moving into the

last two khands... What exactly happens here.

A. as far as i know, this is where anand starts. this is why this place cannot be described.. hence to describe the ongoings of anand is very hard. thats it..

Q. NExt is karam khand... karam khand ki banee jor... why? why is banee

jor here? why is it so close to sach khand but not sach khand? what

happens here?

A. in such khand (as well as this place), things cannot be described. thats why its hard to say what happens here. try describing a concept say... humility, then try describing a feeling say... intense love or even hate... hard init? so to describe somthing that is literally out of this world, is impossible.

baani can be said to get you to this khand as this khand is the roop of bani. this khand looks like bani!..

as explained before, one must let everything go to get to god.this is why this khand is 'positioned' here. (it doesent say 'subh saump' for nothing!) and im sure that there are other reasons unknown to me regarding the positioning of the khands. that is a question in itself which i do not know.. i.e. >>why are the khands positioned the way they are<<

ask a gurmukh though, and i bet they will say, somthing like, "do you ask why you have 2 eyes, or 2 arms/feet/legs/a boy....?" the simplt truth is that i truely cannot be explained because, once somthing is explained, it is explained. it is finished. it had ended. and god/baani/etc.. is beyant! endless! this endless-ness is described in the japji sahib.

Q. And finally sach khand...

Question... sach khand is where all gurmukhs go..and they will pass by

all 4 khands on the way... meaning, no one will forever remain in

saram khand, karam khand and gyan khand right?

A.the world, this game will one day end. therefore, if the correct choices are made by people, and if they are not corrupted, (and alot of more ifs and buts..) then they will ultimately dissolve into god. as per their origional goal. if you didnt know, hel and heven are not at all perminant places.the only perminant place is with god.

Q. question : where is dasam duar...?

A. whre the 5 pyaare put the amrit in your head. where the top most part of your skull is. -sggs, sir oopar taada gur soora...- but be aware of this gat aswell! even this gate people can get stuck in!! -sggs, ik girhu das dwaar hai ja ke-

through this doorway, is heaven and god.

Q. All this has something to do with a concept of Third Eye.. what is

this comcept.?

A. the concept of the third eye exists. (just because its in hinduism dont hake it wrong..)

it is in the middle of the forehead (people commonly mistake this as the dasam dwaar.)

guru tells people, yogis mainly, to stop concentrating on the left and right nerves (forgot to tell you that theres 3 'nerves' in the center of the forhead. they have been named accordingly.. left, right and center. the center, is the sukhmana, the left and right are ida and pingula) which is why, i think, that the swami dude raamdev does that weird thing with the nose...

guru says forget the left and right buisness and concentrate on the center. it is in gurbani..can find it 4 u.

the whole and main idea is that you concentrate with your surti, because it is your surti that is going to(if your lucky!) mearge/dissolve with god. -sggs, subh surti mil surat kamai-

i hope i have sufficiently answered your qz..

gurfateh singho..

we should meet u no!

iv been wanting a sollid conversation with a person for a while!

and so sorry for the massive post. the surperb questions are to blame!

gurfateh ji...

Excellent!!! Thank you so much for the answer.

I tried so hard finding for the answser and Waheguru always finds a way to quench all the queries of His servants, and here, you have bestowed me this understanding.

Thank you so so so much.

Thank you

[harjit nanua]

wjkk wjkf

brothers and sisters i have question, it has been in my mind for some time. i know what will happen if you are a complete manmukh and try and live to fulfil your minds desires.

and i know what happens if you are like sant baba thakur singh jee, bhai rama singh jee and other great great souls who were constantly in tune with the creator

say u are one of the normal ppl who are not this great spiritual level,but are aware of the 5 chor and try to avoid them but sometimes get caught out. what if a person is amritdhari , keeps his rehat and does him nitnem rehraas and sohila daily. works 40hrs a week ,raises a family and visits the gurdwara with sharada and piaar 2-3 times a week, but doesnt drink smoke eat meat and remains faithful to their spouse and lives life as honestly as posible, but never reaches the spiritual heights.

what happens to this person? do they come back as humans? as sikhs, or have they too missed the chance of this life and end up in charasi lakh joon

please brothers and sisters enlighten this fool

phul chuk maaf

Let me help you with this one....

First, we take extreme religions.

IN Hinduism, we see people leaving their families, worldly possesions and going into the jungles to do meditations. Some even remain bachelors.

Another extreme, is to be good in this world, raise a family, do good, manage money well (basiclly, do everything in this world and forget about inner self). We see this with christianity, moslems and jews.

However, Guru Nanak has said, we need to balance both. Sikhism has shown that we can be a family man and at the same time a man of God. Look at Guru Nanak. He had a wife, 2 children and so on. However, this is where the tricky part starts.

In Sikhism, to be in line with God, we have to remove ego, lust, anger , greed and Attachment. Attachment to mother, father, wife, children is not right.

But then comes the question, how to love without being attach? We see Guru Gobind singh. He loved his children, but did not shed a tear when they fell mytyr. The same. We should educate them, play with them, give them love, but dont make it like they are everything to us. One good example is when we see a death...people cry. But this is the command of God. Why must we cry? The world is like this.

So, why do we have kids, wife, family etc? We have people around us to help us (or we help them) reach mukti. In solak M;9, we have a translation :

(1427-13, slok, mÚ 9)

jo paraanee mamtaa tajai lobh moh ahaNkaar.

That mortal who renounces possessiveness, greed, emotional attachment and egotism

kaho naanak aapan tarai a-uran layt uDhaar. ||22||

- says Nanak, he himself is saved, and he saves many others as well. ||22||

It is Gods play.

Next question : How do we reach liberation while having family.? I know, we have to worry about this and that.

But, we have to find it in us to make time for HIm. Here are some points:

- Wake up during amritvella - Bathe. Do your prayers (dont know nitnem?, it's ok, Just do mool mantar, or simran). Think of HIM. Praise HIm. Think how great He is.

- Then start your day. Breakfast, get ready. One can always put kirtan in the house and while doing work, listen to Kirtan or simran.

- While communiting to work, listen to kirtan.

_ at work, take some time off to thank HIm,. to think of him. Once Tarlochan asked Namdev, how do you think of God when you do your work. Namdev answered,"I use my hands to work, my mind is with HIm".

- Once back, do rehraas. Then sohila.

Trust me, your 5 theieves will leave you. This is the power of prayers.But all this while being in this world.

BUT, the most important thing, For PRAYERS TO TAKE EFFECT : IS TO REMOVE EGO. Ego out, Bliss in.

God only wants our mind (which is the hardest to give). He doesnt need our body to go through beatings, or fasting, or anything else.

The mind should remain with HIm (Man mayria, tu sada raho har naley)

I hope this helps.

Thank you so much.

Warm Regards