Recent Arrest - Daljit Singh Bittu And Others Arrested

[Inder Singh]

*MOD-EDITED* i never supported Sukhbir or any political person. Read my posts *MOD-EDITED*

The language you are using here is a goonda language and it hardly makes you a sikh.

I stated that because of this bittu has no comprehension of sikh scriptures he has not got the status to lead sikhs. Do you get it or not. I am a religious person and i do not talk about politics.

*MOD-EDITED*

Das_nimana,

Dasam Granth sahib condemns Hindu avtars in a much forceful ways than any other granth of sikhs. Why RSS will promote such a granth. They will not.

RSS will pay their henchmen to degrade Dasam granth sahib to misguide sikhs who have not read Dasam granth. *MOD-EDITED* They neither have a Gursikh life nor have academic ability to interpret Dasam granth .which is full metaphors, myths to impart moral lessons and symbolism.

Read below what is written about hindu avtars in Dasam granth. Proof is given.

ਦਸਮ ਬਾਣੀ ਵਿਚ ਅਵਤਾਰਵਾਦ ਦਾ ਖੰਡਨ

ਕਿਤੇ ਕਿਸਨ ਸੇ ਕੀਟ ਕੋਟੈ ਉਪਾਏ, ਉਸਾਰੇ ਗੜੇ ਫਿਰ ਮੇਟੇ ਬਨਾਏ॥

He hath Created millions of Krishnas like worms. He Created them, annihilated them, again destroyed them, still again Created them.

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ਕਿਤੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਸੇ ਕੀਟ ਕੋਟੈ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ ਕਿਤੇ ਰਾਮ ਸੇ ਮੇਟਿ ਡਾਰੇ ਉਪਾਏ ॥

Somewhere He hath created millions of servants like Krishna. Somewhere He hath effaced and then created (many) like Rama. (pg.98)

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ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਉਬਾਰ ਨ ਸਕਹੈ ਜਾਕਰ ਨਾਮ ਰਟੈ ਹੈ॥ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸ਼ਨ ਰੁਦ੍ਰ ਸੂਰਹ ਸਸਿ ਤੇ ਬਸਿ ਕਾਲ ਸਭੈ ਹੈ ॥੧ (ਸ. ਹਜਾਰੇ)

Ram and Rahim whose names you are uttering cant save you. Brahma, Vishnu Shiva, Sun and Moon, all are subject to the power of Death.1. .(pg.1349)

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ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਹੈਂ ਮਤ ਏਕ ਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ॥ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਭੈ ਬਹੁ ਭੇਦ ਕਹੈਂ ਹਮ ਏਕਨ ਜਾਨਯੋ॥ ਪਾਂਇ ਗਹੇ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਕੋਊ ਆਂਖ ਤਰੇ ਨਹੀ ਆਨਯੋ ॥ (ਰਾਮਾਵਤਾਰ)

O God ! the day when I caught hold of your feet, I do not bring anyone else under my sight; none other is liked by me now; the Puranas and the Quran try to know Thee by the names of Ram and Rahim and talk about you through several stories, but I do not accept these

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ਜਾਕਰ ਰੂਪ ਰੰਗ ਨਹਿ ਜਨਿਯਤ ਸੋ ਕਿਮ ਸਯਾਮ ਕਹੈ ਹੈ॥ (ਸਬਦ ਹਜ਼ਾਰੇ ਪਾ.10)

He, whose form and colour are not, how can he be called Shyaam (black)? .(p1349)

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ਕਾਹੂ ਕਹਯੋ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨਾਂ ਕਹੁ ਕਾਹੂ ਮਨੈ ਅਵਤਾਰਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ॥ ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਬਿਸਾਰ ਸਭੈ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਹੀ ਕਉ ਕਰਤਾ ਜੀਅ ਜਾਨਯੋ॥...ਅੰਤ ਮਰੇ ਪਛੁਤਾਇ ਪ੍ਰਿਥੀ ਪਰ, ਜੇ ਜਗ ਮੈ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਕਹਾਏ॥(33 ਸਵੈਯੇ)

Someone calls Him Ram or Krishna and someone believes in His incarnations, but my mind has forsaken all useless actions and has accepted only One Creator.12. (p.1352)

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ਕਾਲ ਹੀ ਪਾਇ ਭਇਓ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਗਹਿ ਦੰਡ ਕਮੰਡਲ ਭੂਮ ਭ੍ਰਮਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਕਾਲ ਹੀ ਪਾਇ ਸਦਾ ਸ਼ਿਵਜੂ ਸਭ ਦੇਸ ਬਿਦੇਸ ਭਇਆ ਹਮ ਜਾਨਯੋ ॥

Brahma came into being under the control of time and taking his staff and pot his hand, he wandered on the earth; Shiva was also under the control of time and wandered in various countries far and near;

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ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਔ ਬਿਸਨ ਜਪੇ ਤੁਹਿ ਕੋਟਿਕ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਭਲੀ ਬਿਧਿ ਧਿਆਯੋ ॥ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਜਪਿਓ ਅਰੁ ਸੰਭੁ ਥਪਿਓ ਤਿਹ ਤੇ ਤੁਹਿ ਕੋ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਨ ਬਚਾਯੋ ॥……..ਤੋਹਿ ਬਚਾਇ ਸਕੈ ਕਹੁ ਕੈਸੇ ਕੈ ਆਪਨ ਘਾਵ ਬਚਾਇ ਨ ਐਹੈ ॥ਕੋਪ ਕਰਾਲ ਕੀ ਪਾਵਕ ਕੁੰਡ ਮੈ ਆਪ ਟੰਗਿਓ ਤਿਮ ਤੋਹਿ ਟੰਗੈਹੈ ॥

Thou hast meditated on millions of Krishnas, Vishnus, Ramas and Rahims. Thou hast recited the name of Brahma and established Shivalingam, even then none could save thee…….They cannot save themselves form the blow of death, how can they protect thee? They are all hanging in the blazing fire of anger, therefore they will cause thy hanging similarly. (pg111)

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ਮੈ ਨ ਗਨੇਸ਼ਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਮਨਾਊਂ ॥ ਕਿਸ਼ਨ ਬਿਸ਼ਨ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨਹ ਧਿਆਊਂ ॥ਕਾਨ ਸੁਨੇ ਪਹਿਚਾਨ ਨ ਤਿਨ ਸੋਂ ॥ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਮੋਰੀ ਪਗ ਇਨ ਸੋਂ ॥੪੩੪॥ (ਕ੍ਰਿ.ਵਤਾਰ)

I do not adore Ganesha in the beginning and also do not meditate on Krishna and Vishnu; I have only heard about them with my ears and I do not recognize them; my consciousness is absorbed at the feet of the Supreme Lord.434.

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ਖੋਜ ਰਹੇ ਸ਼ਿਵ ਸੇ ਜਿਹ ਅੰਤ ਅਨੰਤ ਕਹਿਓ ਥਕ ਅੰਤ ਨ ਪਾਯੋ ॥ ਤਾਹੀ ਕੀ ਬਾਤ ਸੁਨੋ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਮੁਖ ਤੇ ਸੁਕਦੇਵ ਇਹੈ ਠਹਰਾਯੋ ॥੨੪੦੩॥

He, whom Shiva etc. had been searching, but could not know His Mystery; O Shukdev ! relate to me the story of that Lord.2403.

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ਜੌ ਕਹੌ ਰਾਮ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਅਜੈ ਅਤਿ ਕਾਹੇ ਕੌ ਕੌਸ਼ਲ ਕੁੱਖ ਜਯੋ ਜੂ ॥ ਕਾਲ ਹੂੰ ਕਾਲ ਕਹੈ ਜਿਹਿ ਕੌ ਕਿਹਿ ਕਾਰਣ ਕਾਲ ਤੇ ਦੀਨ ਭਯੋ ਜੂ ॥

If you consider Ram, the Lord as Unborn, then how did he take birth from the womb of Kaushalya? He, who is said to be the destroyer of death, then why did he become subjugated himself before death?

ਸੱਤ ਸਰੂਪ ਬਿਬੈਰ ਕਹਾਇ ਸੁ ਕਯੋਂ ਪਥ ਕੌ ਰਥ ਹਾਂਕ ਧਯੋ ਜੂ ॥ ਤਾਹੀ ਕੋ ਮਾਨਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਕਰਿ ਕੈ ਜਿਹ ਕੋ ਕੋਊ ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਲੇਨ ਲਯੋ ਜੂ ॥੧੩॥

If he (Krishna) is called the Truth-incarnate, beyond enmity and opposition, then why did he become the charioteer of Arjuna? O mind! you only consider him the Lord God, whose Mysetry could not be known to anyone.13.

ਕਯੋਂ ਕਹੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨਿਧ ਹੈ ਕਿਹ ਕਾਜ ਤੇ ਬੱਧਕ ਬਾਣ ਲਗਾਯੋ ॥ ਅਉਰ ਕੁਲੀਨ ਉਧਾਰਤ ਜੋ ਕਿਹ ਤੇ ਅਪਨੋ ਕੁਲ ਨਾਸੁ ਕਰਾਯੋ ॥

Krishna himself is considered the treasure of Grace, then why did the hunter shot his arrow at him? He has been described as redeeming the clans of others then he caused the destruction of his own clan;

ਆਦਿ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਕਹਾਇ ਕਹੋ ਕਿਮ ਦੇਵਕਿ ਕੇ ਜਠਰੰਤਰ ਆਯੋ ॥ ਤਾਤ ਨ ਮਾਤ ਕਹੈ ਜਿਹ ਕੋ ਤਿਹ ਕਯੋਂ ਬਸੁਦੇਵਹਿ ਬਾਪੁ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥੧੪॥

If he (Krishna) is said to be unborn and without a beginning, then how did he come into the womb of Devaki? He, who is considered without any father or mother, then why did he cause Vasudev to be called his father? 14.

ਕਾਹੇ ਕੋ ਏਸ਼ ਮਹੇਸ਼ਹਿ ਭਾਖਤ ਕਾਹਿ ਦਿਜੇਸ਼ ਕੋ ਏਸ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਹੈ ਨ ਰਘ੍ਵੇਸ਼ ਜਦ੍ਵੇਸ਼ ਰਮਾਪਤਿ ਤੈ ਜਿਨ ਕੌ ਬਿਸ੍ਵਨਾਥ ਪਛਾਨਯੋ ॥

Why do you consider Shiva or Brahma as the Lord? There is none amongst Ram, Krishna and Vishnu, who may be considered as the Lord of the Universe by you;

ਏਕ ਕੋ ਛਾਡਿ ਅਨੇਕ ਭਜੈ ਸੁਕਦੇਵ ਪਰਾਸਰ ਬਯਾਸ ਝੁਠਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਸਜੇ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਕੌ ਬਿਧ ਨੈਕ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨਯੋ ॥੧੫॥

Relinquishing the One Lord, you remember many gods and goddesses; in this way

ਕੋਊ ਦਿਜੇਸ਼ ਕੋ ਮਾਨਤ ਹੈ ਅਰੁ ਕੋਊ ਮਹੇਸ਼ ਕੋ ਏਸ਼ ਬਤੈ ਹੈ ॥ ਕੋਊ ਕਹੈ ਬਿਸ਼ਨੋ ਬਿਸ਼ਨਾਇਕ ਜਾਹਿ ਭਜੇ ਅਘ ਓਘ ਕਟੈ ਹੈ ॥

Someone calls Brahma as the Lord-God and someone tells the same thing about Shiva; someone considers Vishnu as the hero of the universe and says that only by remembering him, all the sins will be destroyed;

ਬਾਰ ਹਜ਼ਾਰ ਬਿਚਾਰ ਅਰੇ ਜੜ ਅੰਤ ਸਮੈ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਤਜਿ ਜੈ ਹੈ ॥ ਤਾਹੀ ਕੋ ਧਯਾਨ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨਿ ਹੀਏ ਜੋਊ ਥੇ ਅਬ ਹੈ ਅਰੁ ਆਗੈ ਊ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਹੈ ॥੧੬॥

O fool ! think about it a thousand times, all of them will leave you at the time of death. Therefore, you should only meditate on Him, who was in the past, is there in the present and will also be there in the future.16.

ਕੋਟਕ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਕਰੇ ਜਿਹ ਕੋ ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਉਪਿੰਦ੍ਰ ਬਾਨਇ ਖਪਾਯੋ ॥ ਦਾਨਵ ਦੇਵ ਫਨਿੰਦ੍ਰ ਧਰਾਧਰ ਪੱਛ ਪਸੂ ਨਹਿ ਜਾਤਿ ਗਨਾਯੋ ॥

He, who created millions of Indras and Upendras and then destroyed them; He, who created innumerable gods, demons, Sheshnaga, tortoises, birds, animals etc.,

ਆਜ ਲਗੇ ਤਪੁ ਸਾਧਤ ਹੈ ਸ਼ਿਵ ਊ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਕਛੁ ਪਾਰ ਨ ਪਾਯੋ ॥ ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਨ ਭੇਦ ਲਖਯੋ ਜਿਹ ਸੋਊ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰ ਮੋਹਿ ਬਤਾਯੋ ॥੧੭॥

And for knowing whose Mystery, Shiva and Brahma are performing austerities even till today, but could not know His end; He is such a Guru, whose Mystery could not be comprehended also by Vedas and Katebs and my Guru has told me the same thing.17.

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ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਨ ਭੇਦ ਲਹਯੋ ਤਿਹਿ ਸਿੱਧ ਸਮਾਧਿ ਸਭੈ ਕਰਿ ਹਾਰੇ ॥ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸ਼ਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਭੈ ਬਹੁ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਬਿਚਾਰ ਬੀਚਾਰੇ ॥

The Vedas and Ketebs could not comprehend His Mystery and the adepts have been defeated in practicing contemplation; Different kinds of thoughts have been mentioned about God in Vedas, Shastras, Puranas and smrities; (p1351)

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ਸੋ ਕਿਮ ਮਾਨਸ ਰੂਪ ਕਹਾਏ॥ ਸਿਧ ਸਮਾਧਿ ਸਾਧ ਕਰ ਹਾਰੇ ਕਯੋ੍‍ ਨ ਦੇਖਨ ਪਾਏ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ (ਸ. ਹਜ਼ਾਰੇ)

How can He be said to come in human form? The Siddha (adept) in deep meditation became tired of the discipline on not seeing Him in any way…..Pause. (p.1348)

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[S1ngh]

While Staying on Topic:

Any way no one cares about the opinion of "self styled judges" sitting in AC rooms in far away lands or in Punjab and passing judgement and comments on every Panthic leader. Come here to Punjab ,feel the heat and do something or keep barking on the net.

Why every Indian from India says this to us? Is there some kind of jealousy that we adopted other land as our country instead of India? When one wants to debate then he/she should take good lessons on "How not to get personal by name calling and using degrading language." I read many of your posts in the past das_nimana and posted good but however lately you got frustrated with sangat residing abroad specially on the issue that most of us balaitey do not support bittu. Even if we have difference (except religious), we can find the common ground and have a civil discussion without name calling each other.. Yeh?

[DashmeshForce]

das_nimana: At the end of the day, Mann supporters are just bitter at the fact that Bittu is more popular. They seem to overlook every single Mann mistake, and continue to nit-pick on Bittu's actions. Let them be.

Persoannly, I believe both Bittu and Mann have unanswered questions regarding there involvement in the movement, however it seems only Bittu is one whos making ammends, whilst Mann carries on with his usual mumbling.

[Inder Singh]

das_nimana: At the end of the day, Mann supporters are just bitter at the fact that Bittu is more popular. They seem to overlook every single Mann mistake, and continue to nit-pick on Bittu's actions. Let them be.

Persoannly, I believe both Bittu and Mann have unanswered questions regarding there involvement in the movement, however it seems only Bittu is one whos making ammends, whilst Mann carries on with his usual mumbling.

I am not supporter of any body. But the persons who discards his scriptures out of ignorance is not fit to be a leader of the community.

He wishes waheguur ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh and do not know even that it is found only in Dasam granth.

Shame on such people who are cutting roots of their religion.

[Guest PunjabSingh]

I never disrespected Dasam Granth as is being claimed by one moderator who has without reason given me a warning.

However,there are portions of the Dasam Granth which have been corrupted by Hindu poets named Ram & Sham to prove that our Gurus were "upasaks" of Hindu Devi,Devtay including Shiva,Vishnu,Brahma.The corrupted portions "are not written by Guru Sahib" and have been deliberately included in Dasam Granth to prove that Sikhs are just "pagri dhaari" hindus .

It is because of this blind following of every portion of Dasam Granth that the Hindus have started calling Sikhs as their part and followers of Hindu Dietys.This is the same hidden agenda of the RSS ie to make Sikhs realise that they are not a vakri kaum but part and parcel of hindu ideology (which is not true).

On the other hand Inder_Singh say that "Ram and Shaam were pen names of Guru Gobind Singh ji".No moderator said anything against him.Isn't this disrespect to Guru ji ?This is what RSS wants us to believe .

Has every moderator thought of giving warnings only to me as their birth right without considering what the other person has written ?

Inder Singh wrote the following about Bhai Bittu:

"My assessment was correct. if he does not believe bani of tenth master that has been part and parcel of sikh psyche for the last 300 years. How he became khalsa? What business he has to get leadership of sikhs? That is the most pressing issue."

The answer which I gave and was moderated was like this :

Going by your logic even Sukhbir Badal is not fit to lead the panth.Sukhbir Badal has also never said anything for and against Dasam Granth like Bhai Bittu.Even Sukhbir Badal has partaken Amrit but he does every act which is against the spirit of Amrit : he supports and visits various deras,Sauda Saadh who has disrespected Guru Gobind Singh ji is Sukhbir's favourite for getting votes.

Badals perform poojas,havans and other hindu ceremonies which have no place in Sikhism.Has Sukhbir taken Amrit just to show off ?If so,then he is dokhi of Guru Granth Sahib as well as the tenth master who is creator of Amrit.If he can not follow rehit why is he doing beadbi of Amrit and the Sikh religion.

Why has this moderator given me warning for the above remarks ?

[Guest PunjabSingh]

While Staying on Topic:

Any way no one cares about the opinion of "self styled judges" sitting in AC rooms in far away lands or in Punjab and passing judgement and comments on every Panthic leader. Come here to Punjab ,feel the heat and do something or keep barking on the net.

Why every Indian from India says this to us? Is there some kind of jealousy that we adopted other land as our country instead of India? When one wants to debate then he/she should take good lessons on "How not to get personal by name calling and using degrading language." I read many of your posts in the past das_nimana and posted good but however lately you got frustrated with sangat residing abroad specially on the issue that most of us balaitey do not support bittu. Even if we have difference (except religious), we can find the common ground and have a civil discussion without name calling each other.. Yeh?

Because you people without knowing the facts keep dubbing Bhai Bittu as govt agent.

If Bhai Bittu is a govt agent then why have Babbar Khalsa,United Khalsa Dal(UK) and many Sikh organisations strongly condemned the arrest of Bittu and openly supported him ?

Do you consider them also govt agents ?

If Bhai Bittu is a CIA agent then why has the same CIA arrested him like a dreaded criminal and are holding him in iron chains?

It is only Bittu who has remain unfazed and unchanged despite the odds and up & downs the Sikh movement has faced.He reminds us of those days when every Sikh used to feel proud of having beard and wearing turban despite the fake encounters of Sikhs and the terror unleashed by the govt.That was something amazing to see.He reminds us of the "anakh" of Sikhs and he is the only one representing it at the moment.Other so called panthic parties wake up only during the election times.

Bhai Bittu is the single biggest threat to the badals at this time.That is why the giddar badals are holding the lion Bhai Daljit Singh Khalsa in "iron chains".

Govt,police media dubb every person who talks for genuine demands of Sikhs as anti national.At the same time these 3 try to tarnish their(true Sikh's) image in the minds of people by dubbing them as govt agents.In this way doubts are created in people's minds.They did this by branding Sant Jarnail Singh as a Congress agent and at the same time calling him extemist.In this way they try to isolate a true Sikh and then strike at him.They did this with Sant Bhindranwale and are doing the same with Bhai Bittu and they seem to be succeeding as is evident from the comments in this forum.

Moderator S1ngh please answer by above questions.You have accused me of personal attack It is you has been personally attacking me by giving me un neccesarry warnings without any valid reasons.You need some lessons in how to do moderation in a group.

[Inder Singh]

I never disrespected Dasam Granth as is being claimed by one moderator who has without reason given me a warning.

However,there are portions of the Dasam Granth which have been corrupted by Hindu poets named Ram & Sham to prove that our Gurus were "upasaks" of Hindu Devi,Devtay including Shiva,Vishnu,Brahma.The corrupted portions "are not written by Guru Sahib" and have been deliberately included in Dasam Granth to prove that Sikhs are just "pagri dhaari" hindus .

It is because of this blind following of every portion of Dasam Granth that the Hindus have started calling Sikhs as their part and followers of Hindu Dietys.This is the same hidden agenda of the RSS ie to make Sikhs realise that they are not a vakri kaum but part and parcel of hindu ideology (which is not true).

On the other hand Inder_Singh say that "Ram and Shaam were pen names of Guru Gobind Singh ji".No moderator said anything against him.Isn't this disrespect to Guru ji ?This is what RSS wants us to believe .

Has every moderator thought of giving warnings only to me as their birth right without considering what the other person has written ?

Inder Singh wrote the following about Bhai Bittu:

"My assessment was correct. if he does not believe bani of tenth master that has been part and parcel of sikh psyche for the last 300 years. How he became khalsa? What business he has to get leadership of sikhs? That is the most pressing issue."

The answer which I gave and was moderated was like this :

Going by your logic even Sukhbir Badal is not fit to lead the panth.Sukhbir Badal has also never said anything for and against Dasam Granth like Bhai Bittu.Even Sukhbir Badal has partaken Amrit but he does every act which is against the spirit of Amrit : he supports and visits various deras,Sauda Saadh who has disrespected Guru Gobind Singh ji is Sukhbir's favourite for getting votes.

Badals perform poojas,havans and other hindu ceremonies which have no place in Sikhism.Has Sukhbir taken Amrit just to show off ?If so,then he is dokhi of Guru Granth Sahib as well as the tenth master who is creator of Amrit.If he can not follow rehit why is he doing beadbi of Amrit and the Sikh religion.

Why has this moderator given me warning for the above remarks ?

Show us pertions that you consider suspect before writing nonsense here. Have you read dasam granth? If not keep shut. If yes show us those portions. Ram and shyam are pen names of Guru sahib. This is second time i am telling you. There are no portions of Dasam granth that worship hindu Gods. Show us or apologize.

Again saying blind followers of Dasam granth means that you are committing blasphemy. You have been shown Dasam Granth highly critical of Hindu deities.Read below

ਕਿਤੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਸੇ ਕੀਟ ਕੋਟੈ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ ਕਿਤੇ ਰਾਮ ਸੇ ਮੇਟਿ ਡਾਰੇ ਉਪਾਏ ॥

किते क्रिसन से कीट कोटै बनाए ॥ किते राम से मेटि डारे उपाए ॥

Somewhere He hath created millions of the insects like Krishna.

Somewhere He hath effaced and then created (many) like Rama.

ਮਹਾਦੀਨ ਕੇਤੇ ਪ੍ਰਿਥੀ ਮਾਂਝ ਹੂਏ ॥ ਸਮੈ ਆਪਨੀ ਆਪਨੀ ਅੰਤ ਮੂਏ ॥੨੭॥

महादीन केते प्रिथी मांझ हूए ॥ समै आपनी आपनी अंत मूए ॥२७॥

Many Muhammads had been on the earth.

They were born and then died in their own times. 27.

ਜਿਤੇ ਰਾਮ ਸੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਹੁਇ ਬਿਸਨ ਆਏ ॥ ਤਿਤਿਓ ਕਾਲ ਖਾਪਿਓ ਨ ਤੇ ਕਾਲ ਘਾਏ ॥੨੮॥

जिते राम से क्रिसन हुइ बिसन आए ॥ तितिओ काल खापिओ न ते काल घाए ॥२८॥

All the incarnations of Vishnu like Rama and Krishan were destroyed by KAL, but they could not destroy him. 28.

ਜਿਤੇ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਸੇ ਚੰਦ੍ਰ ਸੇ ਹੋਤ ਆਏ ॥ ਤਿਤਿਓ ਕਾਲ ਖਾਪਾ ਨ ਤੇ ਕਾਲਿ ਘਾਏ ॥

जिते इंद्र से चंद्र से होत आए ॥ तितिओ काल खापा न ते कालि घाए ॥

All the indras and Chandras (moons) who came into being were destroyed by KAL, but they could not destroy him.

ਰਸਾਵਲ ਛੰਦ ॥

रसावल छंद ॥

RASAAVAL STANZA

ਜਿਤੇ ਰਾਮ ਹੂਏ ॥ ਸਭੈ ਅੰਤਿ ਮੂਏ ॥

जिते राम हूए ॥ सभै अंति मूए ॥

All the Ramas who incarnated, ultimately passed away.

ਜਿਤੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਹੈਂ ॥ ਸਭੈ ਅੰਤਿ ਜੈ ਹੈਂ ॥੭੦॥

जिते क्रिसन ह्वै हैं ॥ सभै अंति जै हैं ॥७०॥

All the Krishnas, who had incarnated, have all passed away.70.

ਜਿਤੇ ਦੇਵ ਹੋਸੀ ॥ ਸਭੈ ਅੰਤ ਜਾਸੀ ॥

जिते देव होसी ॥ सभै अंत जासी ॥

All the gods who will come into being in future, they will all ultimately expire.

Bachitra natak

Inder singh wrote what has been proven earlier here. Ram and shyam are pen names of Guru gobind singh sahib. Read charitropakayan and in one charitra you will find both names coming together.Read below

http://www.patshahi10.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=262:the-history-and-compilation-of-the-dasm-granth-part-1-dr-trilochan-singh&catid=34:english&Itemid=63

The names Ram and Shyam are used in some places as pen names. Actually speaking, they were not pen names but poetic translations of Guruji's names.

You are speaking the language of bittu here. By condemning Dasam granth you people are committing blasphemy. You have to deal with khalsa panth for that.

While Staying on Topic:

Any way no one cares about the opinion of "self styled judges" sitting in AC rooms in far away lands or in Punjab and passing judgement and comments on every Panthic leader. Come here to Punjab ,feel the heat and do something or keep barking on the net.

Why every Indian from India says this to us? Is there some kind of jealousy that we adopted other land as our country instead of India? When one wants to debate then he/she should take good lessons on "How not to get personal by name calling and using degrading language." I read many of your posts in the past das_nimana and posted good but however lately you got frustrated with sangat residing abroad specially on the issue that most of us balaitey do not support bittu. Even if we have difference (except religious), we can find the common ground and have a civil discussion without name calling each other.. Yeh?

Because you people without knowing the facts keep dubbing Bhai Bittu as govt agent.

If Bhai Bittu is a govt agent then why have Babbar Khalsa,United Khalsa Dal(UK) and many Sikh organisations strongly condemned the arrest of Bittu and openly supported him ?

Do you consider them also govt agents ?

If Bhai Bittu is a CIA agent then why has the same CIA arrested him like a dreaded criminal and are holding him in iron chains?

It is only Bittu who has remain unfazed and unchanged despite the odds and up & downs the Sikh movement has faced.He reminds us of those days when every Sikh used to feel proud of having beard and wearing turban despite the fake encounters of Sikhs and the terror unleashed by the govt.That was something amazing to see.He reminds us of the "anakh" of Sikhs and he is the only one representing it at the moment.Other so called panthic parties wake up only during the election times.

Bhai Bittu is the single biggest threat to the badals at this time.That is why the giddar badals are holding the lion Bhai Daljit Singh Khalsa in "iron chains".

Govt,police media dubb every person who talks for genuine demands of Sikhs as anti national.At the same time these 3 try to tarnish their(true Sikh's) image in the minds of people by dubbing them as govt agents.In this way doubts are created in people's minds.They did this by branding Sant Jarnail Singh as a Congress agent and at the same time calling him extemist.In this way they try to isolate a true Sikh and then strike at him.They did this with Sant Bhindranwale and are doing the same with Bhai Bittu and they seem to be succeeding as is evident from the comments in this forum.

Moderator S1ngh please answer by above questions.You have accused me of personal attack It is you has been personally attacking me by giving me un neccesarry warnings without any valid reasons.You need some lessons in how to do moderation in a group.

How he became khalsa when he does not repsect the bani that make us khalsa. Before you condemn dasam granth remove your kachhehra if you have one.

[Inder Singh]

While Staying on Topic:

Any way no one cares about the opinion of "self styled judges" sitting in AC rooms in far away lands or in Punjab and passing judgement and comments on every Panthic leader. Come here to Punjab ,feel the heat and do something or keep barking on the net.

Why every Indian from India says this to us? Is there some kind of jealousy that we adopted other land as our country instead of India? When one wants to debate then he/she should take good lessons on "How not to get personal by name calling and using degrading language." I read many of your posts in the past das_nimana and posted good but however lately you got frustrated with sangat residing abroad specially on the issue that most of us balaitey do not support bittu. Even if we have difference (except religious), we can find the common ground and have a civil discussion without name calling each other.. Yeh?

Because you people without knowing the facts keep dubbing Bhai Bittu as govt agent.

If Bhai Bittu is a govt agent then why have Babbar Khalsa,United Khalsa Dal(UK) and many Sikh organisations strongly condemned the arrest of Bittu and openly supported him ?

Do you consider them also govt agents ?

If Bhai Bittu is a CIA agent then why has the same CIA arrested him like a dreaded criminal and are holding him in iron chains?

It is only Bittu who has remain unfazed and unchanged despite the odds and up & downs the Sikh movement has faced.He reminds us of those days when every Sikh used to feel proud of having beard and wearing turban despite the fake encounters of Sikhs and the terror unleashed by the govt.That was something amazing to see.He reminds us of the "anakh" of Sikhs and he is the only one representing it at the moment.Other so called panthic parties wake up only during the election times.

Bhai Bittu is the single biggest threat to the badals at this time.That is why the giddar badals are holding the lion Bhai Daljit Singh Khalsa in "iron chains".

Govt,police media dubb every person who talks for genuine demands of Sikhs as anti national.At the same time these 3 try to tarnish their(true Sikh's) image in the minds of people by dubbing them as govt agents.In this way doubts are created in people's minds.They did this by branding Sant Jarnail Singh as a Congress agent and at the same time calling him extemist.In this way they try to isolate a true Sikh and then strike at him.They did this with Sant Bhindranwale and are doing the same with Bhai Bittu and they seem to be succeeding as is evident from the comments in this forum.

Moderator S1ngh please answer by above questions.You have accused me of personal attack It is you has been personally attacking me by giving me un neccesarry warnings without any valid reasons.You need some lessons in how to do moderation in a group.

we are not in politics. I do not eulogise politicians. The role of this forum is to promote religion.

We are here to learn about religion from each otehrs experience. This is not a propaganda forum

for a particular politician.

So learn something about your religion here. If you have any misunderstanding about sikhism and

you seem to have a lot please discuss here.

[bkand]

While Staying on Topic:

Any way no one cares about the opinion of "self styled judges" sitting in AC rooms in far away lands or in Punjab and passing judgement and comments on every Panthic leader. Come here to Punjab ,feel the heat and do something or keep barking on the net.

Why every Indian from India says this to us? Is there some kind of jealousy that we adopted other land as our country instead of India? When one wants to debate then he/she should take good lessons on "How not to get personal by name calling and using degrading language." I read many of your posts in the past das_nimana and posted good but however lately you got frustrated with sangat residing abroad specially on the issue that most of us balaitey do not support bittu. Even if we have difference (except religious), we can find the common ground and have a civil discussion without name calling each other.. Yeh?

Because you people without knowing the facts keep dubbing Bhai Bittu as govt agent.

If Bhai Bittu is a govt agent then why have Babbar Khalsa,United Khalsa Dal(UK) and many Sikh organisations strongly condemned the arrest of Bittu and openly supported him ?

Do you consider them also govt agents ?

If Bhai Bittu is a CIA agent then why has the same CIA arrested him like a dreaded criminal and are holding him in iron chains?

It is only Bittu who has remain unfazed and unchanged despite the odds and up & downs the Sikh movement has faced.He reminds us of those days when every Sikh used to feel proud of having beard and wearing turban despite the fake encounters of Sikhs and the terror unleashed by the govt.That was something amazing to see.He reminds us of the "anakh" of Sikhs and he is the only one representing it at the moment.Other so called panthic parties wake up only during the election times.

Bhai Bittu is the single biggest threat to the badals at this time.That is why the giddar badals are holding the lion Bhai Daljit Singh Khalsa in "iron chains".

Govt,police media dubb every person who talks for genuine demands of Sikhs as anti national.At the same time these 3 try to tarnish their(true Sikh's) image in the minds of people by dubbing them as govt agents.In this way doubts are created in people's minds.They did this by branding Sant Jarnail Singh as a Congress agent and at the same time calling him extemist.In this way they try to isolate a true Sikh and then strike at him.They did this with Sant Bhindranwale and are doing the same with Bhai Bittu and they seem to be succeeding as is evident from the comments in this forum.

Moderator S1ngh please answer by above questions.You have accused me of personal attack It is you has been personally attacking me by giving me un neccesarry warnings without any valid reasons.You need some lessons in how to do moderation in a group.

we are not in politics. I do not eulogise politicians. The role of this forum is to promote religion.

We are here to learn about religion from each otehrs experience. This is not a propaganda forum

for a particular politician.

So learn something about your religion here. If you have any misunderstanding about sikhism and

you seem to have a lot please discuss here.

At this point, Bhai Daljit Singh Bittu is doing more for Sikh Shaheeds than anybody else. He has spent more than 10 years in jail, and I can not believe that some people are calling him govt agent. I guess if you are not supporting Bittu, then who are you supporting in punjab (I will like to know).

[Inder Singh]

At this point, Bhai Daljit Singh Bittu is doing more for Sikh Shaheeds than anybody else. He has spent more than 10 years in jail, and I can not believe that some people are calling him govt agent. I guess if you are not supporting Bittu, then who are you supporting in punjab (I will like to know).

we are commenting mainly on his inability to comprehend sikh scriptures and his negative view on Dasam granth.