Outrage!

[Papi]

Real Sants didn't speak against, but here we are, Internet Sant's talking against it, and very strongly I might add...

[Only five]

s

Sant Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa himself never ate meat. Why would he say killing an animal is right.

And where does it say Guru Sahib, Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji did this practice.

I say meat is only permitted if every other food on this plant disappears. Meat is only used as a survival need and nothing else.[/size][/font]

Only five Ji, just because Sant Jarnail Singh Ji didnt do this practise he doesnt mean that he was against it. Listen to Giani Thakur Singh katha when he describes how jatha went to Hazzoor Sahib, and Sant Gurbachan Singh before they left told them that maryada of Hazzoor Sahib is different. But SantJi never said it was wrong. Neither did Sant Kartar Singh or Sant Jarnail Singh.

Even last year, Guru Ji's Taksal was given sewa of the paath, but no-one from Taksal raised any objections about the Jhatka prac, even though they do not practice it themselves.

Also get rid of the " I " think mentality. It will really help you.

The Taksal says only meat is allowed if it is for survival need and every plant and leaves have been aten. Here is a video there is two parts to it.

Sant Jarnail SIngh ji Khalsa had bigger things to deal with in his time. The freedom of Sikhs was at hand. To cause division between the panth at that time would have been a foolish thing to do.

[Only five]

Also in the above videos in Bhai Gurdas ji Vaars it is explained a loin kills a goat and eats it. And how the goat laughs at the loin.

Here it is

This Shabad is by Bhai Gurdaas Ji in Vaars Bhai Gurdaas on Pannaa 25

sIh pjUqI bkrI mrdI hoeI hV hV hsI]

seeh pajoothee bakaree maradhee hoee harr harr hasee||

A goat was caught by a lion and while about to die, it gave out a laugh.

sIhu puCY ivsmwdu hoie iequ Aausir ikqu rhis rhsI]

seehu pushhai visamaadh hoe eith aousar kith rehas rehasee||

The surprised lion asked why it was so happy at such a moment (of its death).

ibnau kryNdI bkrI puqR Aswfy kIcin KsI]

bino karae(n)adhee bakaree puthr asaaddae keechan khasee||

Humbly the goat replied that the testicals of our male progeny are crushed in order to castrate them.

Ak DqUrw KwiDAW kuih kuih Kl auKil ivxsI]

ak dhhathooraa khaadhhiaaa(n) kuhi kuhi khal oukhal vinasee||

We eat only wild plants of arid regions yet our skin is peeled and pounded.

mwsu Kwin gl viF kY hwlu iqnwVw kauxu hovsI]

maas khaan gal vadt kai haal thinaarraa koun hovasee||

I think about the plight of those (like you) who cut the throat of others and eat their flesh.

grbu grIbI dyh Kyh Kwju AKwju Akwju krsI]

garab gareebee dhaeh khaeh khaaj akhaaj akaaj karasee||

The body of both of the proud and the humble will become dust ultimately, but, even then the body of the arrogant (lion) is inedible and that of the humble (goat) attains the status of edible.

jig AwieAw sB koie mrsI ]17]

jag aaeiaa sabh koe marasee ||17||

All who came to this world have to die ultimately.(17)

[Papi]

^ Did you think for a second there is a deeper meaning than simply the meat topic? :6 Like, seriously...stop bringing down bani of mahapurakh's down to a literal level. It's an insult to such great souls.

It's funny how its always the vegetarians that have problems with meat eaters while meat eaters never raise topics telling vegetarians its okay to eat meat.

PS I am a vegetarian, before someone throws that at my face :rolleyes:

[jassa]

that means goat is getting punishment for eating grass and she is telling lion what will happen to him if eating grass can lead her to this painfull death then how bad would be his death who is eating meat ... that means even veggis eating is bad as par bhai gurdas vaar as goat herself is saying she is getting such a painfull death for eating grass ... i suggest u to consider taking santheya from taksal about bhai gurdas vaaran they are far deeper then they look like ... and since they got the translation of gurbani line to line in english its all messed up ... thats why i say dont use gurbani untill and unless u have taken videya from some ustad ... is it paap or pun i dont know ... but surely many times meaning of gurbani is changed ...

[AmarjitKaur]

Not that I really feel urge to contribute to this topic. But I just usually wonder that we say its ok to kill other animals and eat them, why it won't be ok to just kill other humans and eat them. Just a thought. It shouldn't be a sin to kill another human. But then we spend lives in jails for doing that. Then we are considered violent/murderer etc. etc. But no labels when we kill animals. how come? Don't animals have souls. Don't we create a sin by killing another soul. Don't we create karma by doing that to be paid off in this life or next.

As much as i know about this topic (not that I am internet sant, papi jee), God created the life on the universe. He had to create the methods of survival as well. and at the same time, had to create ways of keeping it running and population under control. he gave us certain amount of life and created lots of diseases as well. he created lot of fire, toofan, bhoochal, and some other kinds of disasters as well. its all under that vaheguru's hukam.

Now coming to Lions and goats and humans, and grass etc.

if we start from lion and go upto ant, the bigger one eats the little one and keeps going until the population stays under control and everybody helps each other survive too. And then he made some creatures only capable of consuming grass related stuff and some only flesh/blood related stuff. And we, humans are like goats, horses, who eat farm grown stuff. But there are animals like lions, cats who eat flesh of others.

As simple as that. But if we wanna fight for ages, this is one of the topic which will never end. It has been going on for ages and would go on.

The only difference, I ever see that people who don't consume, are actually close to vaheguru (waheguru is close to everyone, but only non-meat eaters are the ones who feel the connection, realize the presense of God). The meat eaters do collect lot of knowledge, so called gianies, pandits, but do they actually have a connection, that I have to see yet. Have they risen themselves above the panj dhoot, have they realized the drama of life. I have to see a sant mahapursh, brahmgiyani whom we can call that he has reached the GOD and is non-vegetarian.

in my lifetime, which is not much, I have not seen/heard about such a person, if you do know for sure, please bring to my attention. Until I know someone like that, I am assuming these people are talking in the air only, writing big books, giving long lectures etc. etc but are hollow inside.

Just my thoughts. And btw I ate meat for good part of my life, but not since taken amrit. And never justified me eating meat before. It was wrong I knew from start, but kept doing it, as I didn't have the leash of Guru Gobind Singh around my neck and I was a street dog, ate whatever saw on the street. Now, since I got leash and am pet of my Guru, I don't go for food which my Guru didn't make for me to eat. he has provided me with good amount of fruits, veggies, grains, diary products that I don't really need to indulge in other things which have been created by killing some soul. Now, people can jump on me by saying that grasss, fruits,veggies have soul in them too, May be. I don't know, but my Guru says, its made for you to survive. So I will continue to do so.

[Only five]

that means goat is getting punishment for eating grass and she is telling lion what will happen to him if eating grass can lead her to this painfull death then how bad would be his death who is eating meat ... that means even veggis eating is bad as par bhai gurdas vaar as goat herself is saying she is getting such a painfull death for eating grass ... i suggest u to consider taking santheya from taksal about bhai gurdas vaaran they are far deeper then they look like ... and since they got the translation of gurbani line to line in english its all messed up ... thats why i say dont use gurbani untill and unless u have taken videya from some ustad ... is it paap or pun i dont know ... but surely many times meaning of gurbani is changed ...

Jassa ji, I can present you a case where your way of thinking will be thrown out in a second. Matter of fact, i'm do it. Take a Gursikh, there are many and take in what way these pure souls were brutually murdered. Sawed in half, cut limb from limb. We do Ardas you know. Now do we look at this and say if these GurSikhs were cut like this and they followed Guru Sahib is the same going to happen to us. So should we not follow Guru Sahib.

Please stay away from these ridicilous arguements. In the context the goat is speaking to the loin is completely different from your interpretation.

^ Did you think for a second there is a deeper meaning than simply the meat topic? Like, seriously...stop bringing down bani of mahapurakh's down to a literal level. It's an insult to such great souls.

It's funny how its always the vegetarians that have problems with meat eaters while meat eaters never raise topics telling vegetarians its okay to eat meat.

PS I am a vegetarian, before someone throws that at my face

Kindly give us your interpretation.

[Only five]

Not that I really feel urge to contribute to this topic. But I just usually wonder that we say its ok to kill other animals and eat them, why it won't be ok to just kill other humans and eat them. Just a thought. It shouldn't be a sin to kill another human. But then we spend lives in jails for doing that. Then we are considered violent/murderer etc. etc. But no labels when we kill animals. how come? Don't animals have souls. Don't we create a sin by killing another soul. Don't we create karma by doing that to be paid off in this life or next.

As much as i know about this topic (not that I am internet sant, papi jee), God created the life on the universe. He had to create the methods of survival as well. and at the same time, had to create ways of keeping it running and population under control. he gave us certain amount of life and created lots of diseases as well. he created lot of fire, toofan, bhoochal, and some other kinds of disasters as well. its all under that vaheguru's hukam.

Now coming to Lions and goats and humans, and grass etc.

if we start from lion and go upto ant, the bigger one eats the little one and keeps going until the population stays under control and everybody helps each other survive too. And then he made some creatures only capable of consuming grass related stuff and some only flesh/blood related stuff. And we, humans are like goats, horses, who eat farm grown stuff. But there are animals like lions, cats who eat flesh of others.

As simple as that. But if we wanna fight for ages, this is one of the topic which will never end. It has been going on for ages and would go on.

The only difference, I ever see that people who don't consume, are actually close to vaheguru (waheguru is close to everyone, but only non-meat eaters are the ones who feel the connection, realize the presense of God). The meat eaters do collect lot of knowledge, so called gianies, pandits, but do they actually have a connection, that I have to see yet. Have they risen themselves above the panj dhoot, have they realized the drama of life. I have to see a sant mahapursh, brahmgiyani whom we can call that he has reached the GOD and is non-vegetarian.

in my lifetime, which is not much, I have not seen/heard about such a person, if you do know for sure, please bring to my attention. Until I know someone like that, I am assuming these people are talking in the air only, writing big books, giving long lectures etc. etc but are hollow inside.

Just my thoughts. And btw I ate meat for good part of my life, but not since taken amrit. And never justified me eating meat before. It was wrong I knew from start, but kept doing it, as I didn't have the leash of Guru Gobind Singh around my neck and I was a street dog, ate whatever saw on the street. Now, since I got leash and am pet of my Guru, I don't go for food which my Guru didn't make for me to eat. he has provided me with good amount of fruits, veggies, grains, diary products that I don't really need to indulge in other things which have been created by killing some soul. Now, people can jump on me by saying that grasss, fruits,veggies have soul in them too, May be. I don't know, but my Guru says, its made for you to survive. So I will continue to do so.

Bhenji that so true havn't heard of one brahmgiyani that ate meat or tells other's it's alright to eat meat.

[jassa]

Jassa ji, I can present you a case where your way of thinking will be thrown out in a second. Matter of fact, i'm do it. Take a Gursikh, there are many and take in what way these pure souls were brutually murdered. Sawed in half, cut limb from limb. We do Ardas you know. Now do we look at this and say if these GurSikhs were cut like this and they followed Guru Sahib is the same going to happen to us. So should we not follow Guru Sahib.

there is something known as shaheedi ... what are u trying to say that were victems not shaheedis ??? if they are murdered we feel sorry for them i dont know what to say ... but i m proud of bhai taru singh bhai mani singh not pity .... ur moving in very wrong direction ... and murdered is no way a word for a shahhed ... ohna ne band band kattayea sanu sikh rakhan layi ... na ke ohna da joor nahi see ... kehdech himmat see sahibjada ajit singh nu jungch maar sakda oh ess layi nahi shahhed hoye ke ohna di shaster videyach koi kami see yaa oh lad nahi sakde see ... oh taan chutkich dunia khatam kar sakde see ... u used a very bad example here very bad ....

[Papi]

My only concern is that if you have a problem with someone doing something, go up to them and confront them. If you don't have the guts to do that, then it's better not to say anything to others. I see a lot of people have issues with what happens at hazoor sahib, so really you need to go down there and speak against it. Making a thread on a forum, which likely no one from hazoor sahib will see is pointless and waste of time.