Taksal Santhiya

[Singhstah]

VahegurooJiKaKhalsaVahegurooJiKiFateh Jeeo.

I have a few genuine questions on the Taksal style of santhiya/pronounciation, I would really appreciate anyone who has undergone it or knows anything about it to reply. I have chance to learn santhiya in this way, but I need to get these few queries answered first.

Please note, these may seem argumentative,however really I'm just trying to critically assess the subject to come to a conclusion, like I said these are genuine questions.

1)What is actually gained from the santhiya? At Boss Sikhi camp last year we were taught basic santhiya which was basically pronounce all the siharis, aunkars,etc. Once you have had muharni, what more is needed to be learnt? Can't you just practice on your own?

2)Are the grammar rules (vyakran) which help to understand the aarths of the bani taught?

3)One general issue I have is that when I have tried to do paath pronouncing siharis and aunkars, generally my concentration is not on the meanings of the bani at all, I'm just too caught up on not missing anything. How is this overcome?

4)Are bindis and tippes added to pronounciation? Eg. sabad vs shabad? Is there an emphasis on bishraams?

Thank you in advance

[Guest shastr]

read this

http://www.gursevak.com/arthstyle.htm

and read this

http://www.gursevak.com/about.htm

[AmarjitKaur]

I havn't read what Shastr bhaji put the link for. So sorry for being anything getting repeated by me as you might have already learned from this site.

Another disclaimer, I havn't got any santhiya yet, even though I really want to.

What I have heard from kathas by different kathakars, Giyanis etc. that with santhiya first of all, you learn how to read the word correctly learning to pronouce the matra correctly and the alphabet correctly. Secondly, Bishram makes the huge difference in the meaning of the line.

So both are very important.

[Jai Tegang!]

Santhyia is a life long passion, in my opinion. Just like a proper martial art, it takes years of practice and study, and instruction to gain something. The result is something to be admired.

You have to be prepared to give it a few years. In the beginning, it may feel frustrating to pronounce all the moharnia, and you may feel youve slowed down in your overall reading speed considerably. Give it some years of practice and your speed will pick up and you wont have to even consciously pronounce the shihari/bihari/aunkars....they will naturally be subtly incorporated into your pronunciation.

Bindis, tippis, along with words needing emphasis when pronouncing are all part of proper santhyia, along with bishraams.

You can do immense amount of self study by using the Gurbani Paath Darpan pothi, but you will still need a Santhyia teacher to start you off and help you along the way now and then.

Just to give you an idea of what Santhyia is, Gyani Takhur Singh Ji said they have barely scratched the surface themselves even after years of studying under vidhvaans and mahapurshs. Perhaps its their nimrata, but it does highlight how vast and great Santhyia really is.

[.- Prabhjot Singh -.]

The joy of being able to do shudh ucharran is beyond any words! An extremely important facet of the Shabad Guruji is the naad, if the naad is not what it is meant to be, then how can we expect changes in our avastha? besides, when we pronounce the shabad guru wrong and we have done beadbi right there!

Jai Tegang! veerji has pretty much said it all - its a passion! The right naad creates unexplainable vibrations within, the joys of which you can taste if you listen to Bhai Jarnail Singh Ji's ucharran. We must strive to do the same ourselves, so yeah Santhya is def important

[Singhstah]

I appreciate everyone's replies, by those very interesting links I see that vykaran is not a preferred element, but I would think that the question of placing emphasis on different words so the correct meaning is gained, would probably be answered by vyakaran, rather than their being everyone's own opinion, which would create the question of how to pronounciate in the first place.

I don't know why, but I still feel their should be more to santhiya, I know that there is supposed to be a pratan link in this way of pronouncing gurbani but it just doesn't make sense to me.

Thank you all for your replies though, hopefully Guru Sahib will guide me to the truth. The other thing I would say is that issues like this really show why we as a panth need to come together and fix all differences of opinion on such important matters. There really should only be one agreed way to read/interpret bani so as to avoid such confusion.

[SunSingh]

when you mention vyakaran, you are referring to prof. sahib singh's system of gurbani grammer right?

santhya is very important, even just a few days before operation bluestar, sant ji was teaching santhya to the singhs.

[GuruManeyoGranth]

One learns Viyaakaran as one takes Santhiaa from Taksaal. As others have said above, Mohaarnee is the very very basic, and even this requires a lot of Abhiyaas. What one learns at Sikhi Camp is not even 0.00001% of taking Santhiaa from Taksaal. Our Ustaad Jee did abhiyaas of Mohaarnee for 3 months before starting even Mool Mantar! He was one of the Singhs that stayed with Baba Thakur Singh Jee.

As I understand it, where Taksaal and other Puraatan Sampardhaavan disagree with modern Jathae/Scholars is that they say that Gurbani is not limited to Viyaakaran, and Gurbani's meaning will not necessarily follow Viyaakaran in every instance. However, this is not to say that Viyaakaran is not important and it is taught when one takes Santhiaa. However, modern day Jathae/Scholars are limiting Gurbani's meaning to Viyaakaran and changing the meanings of Gurbani as per their own understanding of rules of Viyaakaran. This goes against the teachings/arth of Gurbani that have been passed down "seena-baseena" by Guroo Gobind Singh Jee.

Also, the rules of Viyaakaran/Grammar that these people promulgate are so wishy-washy that there arrives a point where one must consider as to whether these people are actually applying "their rules" faithfully as per a system of Viyaakaran/Grammar, or they are actually making up rules of Viyaakaran to apply meanings of Gurbani as per their own Mat/intellect, rather than the Guroo's Mat as per what Guroo Gobind Singh Jee taught Baba Deep Singh Jee, Bhai Mani Singh Jee and the other Singhs at Damdama Sahib, Sabo-Ki-Talwandi.

Waheguroo

[SunSingh]

here's an example:

ਆਪੁ ਆਪਨੀ ਬੁਧਿ ਹੈ ਜੇਤੀ॥ ਬਰਨਤ ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਤੁਹਿ ਤੇਤੀ ॥

To each individual, based on their own knowledge, describe God differently

If Gurusahib is infinite than so is their understanding. The more you dwell on Banee, the deeper it gets. Based on the individual the appreciation of Banee changes depending on the state of mind of the contemplater. If Banee is an infinite ocean, the deeper one could dive, the greater the experience they feel. In the same manner people describe a flower in millions of ways depending on their experience, Nirankar Saroop Banee Jee (ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਸਰੂਪ ਬਾਣੀ ਜੀ) can take on different meanings according to one’s spiritual state.

There are two types of translations. First there are word for word translations that just explain each word’s literal meaning. This style of translation is used in most Sateeks available today. However, the style in which Bhagat Jee composed these potheean are distinct. These arth are deeper and are derived from GuruSahib. They revolve around love(ਭਾਉ) and devotion(ਭਗਤੀ ) to GuruSahib. Many translations are given with more than one meaning based on different perspectives.

The style of these Arth are written with the utmost respect for Gurusahib in mind. When referring to GuruSahib everything is written in plural form. Just like in Punjabi subculture a loyal wife has the utmost respect and honour for her husband (ਪਤਿਵ੍ਰਤਾ) and she speaks in plural form. In GuruGranth Sahib Jee, much of the banee is composed as if Vaheguru Jee is our metaphorical husband.

ਮੈ ਕਾਮਣਿ; ਮੇਰਾ ਕੰਤੁ ਕਰਤਾਰੁ ॥

I am the soul bride and my Husband Lord is the Creator of the universe.

Gurbani is not under grammaticalical boundaries, it is free and self prevading. Trying to add grammar according to one’s own intelligence is a big mistake.

ਜੇ ਕੋ ਆਖੈ ਬੋਲੁਵਿਗਾੜੁ॥ ਤਾ ਲਿਖੀਐ ਸਿਰਿ ਗਾਵਾਰਾ ਗਾਵਾਰੁ॥

If anyone speaks disrespectfully towards Gurbani Guru Ji, they shall be known as the greatest of fools

If people say Banee is bound by grammar, than banee is considered small. But Gurusahib writes that

ਵਾਹੁ ਵਾਹੁ ਬਾਣੀ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਹੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਜੇਵਡੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥

Example of Arth:

To give an example in Bhagat Fareed Sahib Jee’s saloks (ਅੰਗ1380), the translations that are normally done are vague. The common translations are as follows:

ਫਰੀਦਾ ਰਤੀ ਰਤੁ ਨ ਨਿਕਲੈ ਜੇ ਤਨੁ ਚੀਰੈ ਕੋਇ॥

Bhagat Fareed Sahib Jee says, those who are imbued with God would not drop a single ounce of blood when their bodies are physically cut.

ਜੋ ਤਨ ਰਤੇ. ਰਬ ਸਿਉ; ਤਿਨ ਤਨਿ. ਰਤੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ॥੫੧॥

Because those bodies who are imbued with God contain no blood.

The translations are seen to be vague because all bodies have blood. Just like all Shaheeds of the sikh panth, their bodies are still human to deny that their blood spilled would be flat you mythological storytelling. To combat this dilemma, the same Banee can be seen in a different light with Bhagat Jaswant Singh Jee’s arth.

ਰਤੁ spoken softly translates into love

ਰੱਤ spoken with emphasis (ੱ) means blood.

ਫਰੀਦਾ. ਰਤੀ ਰਤੁ ਨ ਨਿਕਲੈ; ਜੇ ਤਨੁ ਚੀਰੈ ਕੋਇ॥

Bhagat (ਫਰੀਦਾ.)Fareed Sahib Jee according to ਸੰਤ ਅਨੰਤਹਿ; ਅੰਤਰੁ ਨਾਹੀ॥ are describing the spiritual state of those who are imbued with God: (ਜੇ)If (ਕੋਇ)someone tries to (ਤਨੁ)physically (ਚੀਰੈ)cut or torture these Gursevaks or offer them wealth and fame. Since they are merged in WaheguruJi (ਨ)Not even a (ਰਤੀ )miniscule amount of their (ਰਤੁ)love will (ਨਿਕਲੈ)depart from their body

ਰੱਤੇ ਰੱਬ . ਰਤੁ ਪੋਲਾ- ਜੋ ਤਨ ਰਤੇ. ਰਬ ਸਿਉ; ਤਿਨ ਤਨਿ. ਰਤੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ॥੫੧॥

This is due to the fact that (ਜੋ )those (ਤਨ)bodies that are (ਰਤੇ)imbued (ਸਿਉ)in the deep colours of (ਰਬ) God, (ਹੋਇ) have (ਨ) no (ਰਤੁ )love of attachment for (ਤਿਨ)their (ਤਨਿ)physical bodies. When one is deeply engrossed in this love for Waheguru, they, like Bhai Mati Daas Jee sacrifice their body in an instant without second thought.

http://www.gursevak.com/arthstyle.htm

[ssinghuk]

Just wanted to say this is a great thread and for me personally has dispelled many doubts that have been lingering in mind for a while.

Thanks!

Waheguroo jee kaa khalsa waheguroo jee kee fateh