Was Killing Sikhism?

[GrimReaper]

What can you expect, Sikh people sprung around a region where caste heavily influenced your mobility in society. Aryans brought not only their rituals but also ideals about the socio-structure of a group of people, thus forms of what we call 'caste' today formed, such as the Hindu: Jati and Varna system, and arguably the Islamic system of Ashraf and Ajlaf which is mostly has implications in the indian sub-contienent. Becuase India as a whole has mostly displayed syncretism; it's evident that the Sikhs would adopt such schools of thought from others. As much as people want to argue how wrong it is and how its against Sikhism, the fact is that it has been a part of the Sikh culture for so long that it's considered normal to display ones caste. What we can be hopeful for is that this is slowly losing foothold in western countries, just as the Jajamani System has been on the decline in India.

[punjab5]

If we look at the the teachings of Sikhi, why do we always focus on Caste, Guru ji says 'Manas ki jatt sab eko pachan' This relates to all of humanity as one, so why do we then differentiate between nationalities, cultures etc.

To me this quote is about treating all with respect, regardless of their background/identity.

We need to try and seperate some aspects of culture from religion. If we focus on religion, then in reality there is not much discrimination on so called caste. Anyone can go to any Gurdwara and pay their respects to Guru Granth Sahib as well as partake in Sangat and listen to Kirtan, bani etc. When taking Amrit, you are not asked about your identity, i.e. so called caste', i could go on.

So the concept of caste has been eradicted in terms of religion. Even if you go to a so called 'Ramghari' Gurdwara. no body stops you from partcipating in the Sangat and listening to bani.

'Caste' is a western concept that was used by the British to divide the people of India. It is cultural and as mentioned in an earlier post, Jats are a tribe and so what is wrong with anyone identifying themselves with their ancestoral identity. As long their main identity is as a Sikh first. What Sikhi teaches is that all are equal there is no hiearchy, it does not say that you may deny your history from a cultural view, as long as you treat all other Humans with respect.

[.- Prabhjot Singh -.]

ਜਾਤਿ ਕਾ ਗਰਬੁ ਨ ਕਰਿ ਮੂਰਖ ਗਵਾਰਾ ॥

Do not be proud of your social class and status, you ignorant fool!

ਇਸੁ ਗਰਬ ਤੇ ਚਲਹਿ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਵਿਕਾਰਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

So much sin and corruption comes from this pride. ||1||Pause||

ਚਾਰੇ ਵਰਨ ਆਖੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਈ ॥

Everyone says that there are four castes, four social classes.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਬਿੰਦ ਤੇ ਸਭ ਓਪਤਿ ਹੋਈ ॥੨॥

They all emanate from the drop of God's Seed. ||2||

(Ang 1127-1128 Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj)

If after hearing Sri Gurujis clear cut Hukam regarding this issue you still want to play with semantics to feed your ego, go ahead and carry on with this manmatt. Baaki, 'Karmi Aapo Aapni..', right?

[anush]

If we look at the the teachings of Sikhi, why do we always focus on Caste, Guru ji says 'Manas ki jatt sab eko pachan' This relates to all of humanity as one, so why do we then differentiate between nationalities, cultures etc.

To me this quote is about treating all with respect, regardless of their background/identity.

We need to try and seperate some aspects of culture from religion. If we focus on religion, then in reality there is not much discrimination on so called caste. Anyone can go to any Gurdwara and pay their respects to Guru Granth Sahib as well as partake in Sangat and listen to Kirtan, bani etc. When taking Amrit, you are not asked about your identity, i.e. so called caste', i could go on.

So the concept of caste has been eradicted in terms of religion. Even if you go to a so called 'Ramghari' Gurdwara. no body stops you from partcipating in the Sangat and listening to bani.

'Caste' is a western concept that was used by the British to divide the people of India. It is cultural and as mentioned in an earlier post, Jats are a tribe and so what is wrong with anyone identifying themselves with their ancestoral identity. As long their main identity is as a Sikh first. What Sikhi teaches is that all are equal there is no hiearchy, it does not say that you may deny your history from a cultural view, as long as you treat all other Humans with respect.

ਸਤਨਾਮ ਸ਼੍ਰੀ ਵਾਹੇਗੁਰੁ

I have two doubts:-

1. Why is Sikhism silent about Janms theory. Like in hinduism its 7 Births/janms and in islam its 1 birth. Even though 7 janms cannot be scientifically proven.

2. Why do sikhs practice caste along with hindus in India and Pak? This is evident from honour killings that are taking place in Punjab. I'm not trying to say that only hindus practice caste system, parsis, muslims, christians do so also. Isn't it that the Dashmesh condemned it(caste system). Practicing cast ism is directly in contravention/contradiction with the teachings of gurus.

Appreciate it if someone clears these doubts with getting PERSONAL.

ਵਾਹੇਗੁਰੁ ਜੀ ਦਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਵਾਹੇਗੁਰੁ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਫ਼ਤੇਹ

[mohinder pal]

ਸਤਨਾਮ ਸ਼੍ਰੀ ਵਾਹੇਗੁਰੁ

I have two doubts:-

1. Why is Sikhism silent about Janms theory. Like in hinduism its 7 Births/janms and in islam its 1 birth. Even though 7 janms cannot be scientifically proven.

2. Why do sikhs practice caste along with hindus in India and Pak? This is evident from honour killings that are taking place in Punjab. I'm not trying to say that only hindus practice caste system, parsis, muslims, christians do so also. Isn't it that the Dashmesh condemned it(caste system). Practicing cast ism is directly in contravention/contradiction with the teachings of gurus.

Appreciate it if someone clears these doubts with getting PERSONAL.

ਵਾਹੇਗੁਰੁ ਜੀ ਦਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਵਾਹੇਗੁਰੁ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਫ਼ਤੇਹ

1. According to Sikhism. there are no 7 janams(Hindu ideology) or 1 Janam(Islam Ideology)- SGGSJi says until and unless Human being doesnot get Moksh or Liberated by Naam Simram...He goes thru unlimited Birth and Deaths in 84lakh Joons. Usually Human gets in to Birth and Death game beacuse of his Unsteady Mann who keeps on running Endless thoughts about Past,Present and Future; Until and Unless that Mann is made thought less, Human goes thru Birth and Deaths. Thoughtlessness or Thought on One Shabad only liberates the Human from Endless Janam/Deaths; this only Happens when He comes in TRUE saad sangat.

2.Every Religions has good people and Bad people. Beacuse of the Deeds of Bad People One cannot say Whole Religion is Bad. Whose Bad people commit Sins which are against the Religions Rehat Maryada. No Religions says Kill Infants, Kill Animals,Kill Humans, Commit Murders ...etc. According to Sikhism there are only Two Religions GURMUKH AND MANMUKH. Gurmukh is one who follows guru's teachings and gets liberated and Manmukh who commits Good and Bad deeds and doesnot know God's or Guru's Teachings. This answers to you 2nd question. Even though Sikhism prohibits Honour Killings, People in punjab do commit such sins for their Social Status in the Society.

Without Guru nothing is possible. Even Vishnu, Brahma, Mahesh has their own gurus. Vishnu is the Guru of Brahma; Shiv is the Guru of Vishnu, Brahma is the Guru of Shiv; thats makes Trinity(Christian Idology). But Mahakal(aad Shakti) controls them and entire Creation. And Akal Purakh controls the Mahakal.