Were Guru Nanak Dev Ji God Himself ?

[alias]

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U

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>>GURU NANAK DEV ji is sabad guru<<, id like to know what else your iddeas are elaborate as much as u can plz.

if u dont want to post u can pm me...??

its a rare moment that vechaar can get going..

[Only five]

B

U

M

P

!

>>GURU NANAK DEV ji is sabad guru<<, id like to know what else your iddeas are elaborate as much as u can plz.

if u dont want to post u can pm me...??

its a rare moment that vechaar can get going..

Shabad Guru has taken a form since the beginning of time(it's eternal). Shabad Guru never comes or goes. Today we have Shabad Guru as the form as Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. The ink the cover the ang are the form. Just like when Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj came to this earth, the form of Shabad Guru was the body of Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj. The body can come or go the ink can come and go the ang can come and go, but the Shabad Guru stays in the permanent form, as the form of the formless. Those that are aware of this form don't need a form of the Shabad Guru to be with Sri Waheguru Ji Maharaj. This is how Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj is. He was the form of the formless Shabad Guru. He was already here, before that body of his came to this earth. The body is used as a means to teach the Shabad Guru to those that can't see, hear, feel, touch Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj in the form of the formless (humans). I know I am using Shabad Guru/ Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj/ Sri Waheguru Ji Maharaj interchangablly here, but my understanding/as am i told by Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj can't see any difference between them. Sri Waheguru ji is the form of the formless, Shabad Guru is the form of Sri Waheguru ji in vibration and then Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj is the form of Sri Waheguru ji also in vibration. Vibration, here is spoken, hearing, listening, writen to Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj. These different forms are means to an end.

Say Gurbani(written, spoken, memorization) goes gupt, the Shabad Guru stands still as before when Gurbani did not go gupt, but to humans like you and me we see it as gone or never existed. Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj is that permanent state that never comes and goes (Shabad Guru). The Sants of this world are aware of Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj/Shabad Guru/ Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj in that state. There minds are attuned to that state. When Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj(the body of his) came to this earth, what took place is, that Shabad Guru started to be sung through the body and now because of the body, people see Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj ji as that body only(one reason why many Gurmukhs say don't bow to the pictures). People completely focus on the body that gave us the Shabad Guru and differtiate between Sri Waheguru ji and Guru. Then you have the people that completely disregard the form of Shabad Guru and say those that do aarti of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj are fools, those that keep fans by Guru Sahib are fools in the summer months. Both sides don't understand sargun and nirgun. Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj does not get hot or cold, or see pleasure or pain. If he did Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji Maharaj would have fainted or screamed out in pain on the hot plate. That body was there to give us the message and the Gursikhs respected that body by waving the fans over Guru Sahib, they gave Guru Sahib many gifts to the body that never got cold or hot. The same form Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj is being covered, fans are placed there, aarti is done. Shabad Guru is the formless Sri Waheguru ji, who took for for our own benefits. Same goes for Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj.

[sikha]

Which form did Shabad take prior to Guru Nanak in 1469?

[alias]

Which form did Shabad take prior to Guru Nanak in 1469?

nirgun saroop as wel as >har jug jug bhagat upaaya<. bhagats can be blessed enough that God gets pargat through them. >gur, parsaadi eko jaan.<

:umm: :lol:

[Only five]

Which form did Shabad take prior to Guru Nanak in 1469?

Refer to Bhagat Namdev ji Banis in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. Before Shabad Guru took the form as Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj. Bhagat Namdev ji Maharaj was given the darshan of Sri Waheguru ji in the nirgun (to my understanding), one light in two forms.

[alias]

Shabad Guru has taken a form since the beginning of time(it's eternal). Shabad Guru never comes or goes. Today we have Shabad Guru as the form as Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. The ink the cover the ang are the form. Just like when Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj came to this earth, the form of Shabad Guru was the body of Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj. The body can come or go the ink can come and go the ang can come and go, but the Shabad Guru stays in the permanent form, as the form of the formless. Those that are aware of this form don't need a form of the Shabad Guru to be with Sri Waheguru Ji Maharaj. This is how Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj is. He was the form of the formless Shabad Guru. He was already here, before that body of his came to this earth. The body is used as a means to teach the Shabad Guru to those that can't see, hear, feel, touch Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj in the form of the formless (humans). I know I am using Shabad Guru/ Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj/ Sri Waheguru Ji Maharaj interchangablly here, but my understanding/as am i told by Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj can't see any difference between them. Sri Waheguru ji is the form of the formless, Shabad Guru is the form of Sri Waheguru ji in vibration and then Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj is the form of Sri Waheguru ji also in vibration. Vibration, here is spoken, hearing, listening, writen to Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj. These different forms are means to an end.

Say Gurbani(written, spoken, memorization) goes gupt, the Shabad Guru stands still as before when Gurbani did not go gupt, but to humans like you and me we see it as gone or never existed. Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj is that permanent state that never comes and goes (Shabad Guru). The Sants of this world are aware of Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj/Shabad Guru/ Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj in that state. There minds are attuned to that state. When Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj(the body of his) came to this earth, what took place is, that Shabad Guru started to be sung through the body and now because of the body, people see Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj ji as that body only(one reason why many Gurmukhs say don't bow to the pictures). People completely focus on the body that gave us the Shabad Guru and differtiate between Sri Waheguru ji and Guru. Then you have the people that completely disregard the form of Shabad Guru and say those that do aarti of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj are fools, those that keep fans by Guru Sahib are fools in the summer months. Both sides don't understand sargun and nirgun. Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj does not get hot or cold, or see pleasure or pain. If he did Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji Maharaj would have fainted or screamed out in pain on the hot plate. That body was there to give us the message and the Gursikhs respected that body by waving the fans over Guru Sahib, they gave Guru Sahib many gifts to the body that never got cold or hot. The same form Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj is being covered, fans are placed there, aarti is done. Shabad Guru is the formless Sri Waheguru ji, who took for for our own benefits. Same goes for Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj.

nice. :rolleyes: :waheguru: :rolleyes:

i also came accross a shabad (i think) that was in guru maharaj that sed that eack achar (letter) is the rom of guru. which is.. again, real nice. (i say nice because thes no point in trying to find the right word to describe.. awsome, amazing... but naa even these words dont do justice! )

u no how u say dont bow to pictures, yes that is the case.. the picture is jus ink and stuff. but what are them ppl reely bowing to.. is not the picture.. the gurmukhs only see that ppl aare bowing to the picture when they are not - they bow to God. akaal..

another thing about pictures, what do u say about charan amrit at the time of guruji then? because it can thus be said that the gur charan are going to go away. etc. i.e. a foot is flesh/ mitti. so an onlookermay question the same thing about the charan of the guru, just like people that see ppl bowing to 'pictures' question bowing to pictures.. i hope you see my point.. nirgun is nirgun. sargurn is sargun. sargun is also nirgun and nirgun is sargun also.. as a bundh, its all ek jot. its all what you see.. so the picture thing, is ok in my books premise to non moorti-like pooja..

someone asked my y do we put guru ji to sleep if guru ji cant get tyred.

my answer is that it is our seva.. we are to do seva thus giving us more prem. so seva and prem are sakka bros. (killing is also seva so we are also to find out how to kill in daya).. in bhai nand laal ji rehetnama, it sez there are 3 forms of satguru. nirgun, sargun and gursabad. we do seva of nirgun via naam, sargun via seva, and gursabad via the seva (sukh assan) and recitation. so guru ji doesnt need us to do anything.. but we do seva because of the bhanva and sharda etc..

and bout the aarti, >>kaisee aarrti hoe, bhav khandana teri aarti<< :D

im sure u understand what point i mean to make.

u lil gurmukh!

tu mere gur ke pyaare! kis kis singha!

gurfateh

Refer to Bhagat Namdev ji Banis in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. Before Shabad Guru took the form as Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj. Bhagat Namdev ji Maharaj was given the darshan of Sri Waheguru ji in the nirgun (to my understanding), one light in two forms.

which shabad? ang? :happy:

[sikha]

Yes but it is not possible for our eyes to see the Nirgun so Bhagat Namdev ji could'n possibly have been given darshan of a nirgun form since the nirgun is the invisible light of God that resides in each and every being and cell in the universe.

Which form did God take?

[alias]

omg!

my brother, it is possible to see nirgun saroop. im sure somone will explain...

fateh

look at dib drist meaning..

we are to see nirgun saroop with these eyes we have..

we already see sargun saroop as everything... then with these same set of eyes, we see nirgun saroop via dib drist... do u read anand sahib???!

[alias]

fateh

another thing, all religons say u die then u see god.... matie, if we dont se god in this life, we aint got no chance to see god in the next!..

this is y sikhi says we must do all the naam n stuff to get to see god in this life...

when we see god, it doesnt end there.. we can go further than this, then summin else happens.. then we come back down to earth. but this is differnt to your question...

its all part of the same 'model'...

i hope this helped..

[sikha]

*******************

*Rehatnama Bhai Nand Lal

(Prashan-uttar Attributed to Nand Lal)

Nand Lal speaks:

Doha

'You say that we should behold your presence, O Master. Tell me where we are to find you.' (5)

the Guru speaks:

Doha

'Listen attentively, Nand (Lal). I am manifested in Three ways : the formless or invisible (nirgun), the material or visible (sargun), and the divine Word (gur-shabad). This I shall explain to you. (6)

Chaupai

'The first of these transcends all that is material . It is the neti neti of the Vedas, the spirit which dwells in every heart as light permeates the water held in a vessel.' (7)

'The second is the sacred scripture. This you must accept as part of me , treating its letters as the hairs of my body , This truly is so,' 8

'Sikhs who wish to see the Guru will do so when they come to the Granth. He who is wise will bathe at dawn and then will walk thrice around (the sacred Granth). (9)

Dohara

Come with reverence and sit in my presence. Humbly bow and hear the words of the Guru Granth.

Chaupai

Hear the Word with devout affection for the Guru. Hear the Guru's Word of wisdom and read it that others may also hear.

The person who wishes to converse with me should read the granth and reflect on what it says. (10)

The person who wishes to hear my words should devoutly hear and reflect on the Granth. Acknowledge the Granth as my visible presence , rejecting the notion that it is other than me. (11)

The third form is my Sikh, that Sikh who day and night is immersed in the words of sacred scripture (gurabani). The Sikh who loves and trusts the Word of the Guru is an ever-present manifestation of the Guru, (12)

Such a Sikh is the one who hears the Guru's words of wisdom and reads them so that others may hear. Attentively he reads both Japuji and Jap, visiting places sanctified by the Gurus (guradavaran) and strictly avoiding adulterous liaisons. (13)

The Gursikh who is faithful in service will find himself cleansed from all sense of self-dependence. He who is scrupulous in performing these obligations is the Sikh in whom I am made manifest. (14)

Dohara

Worthy is the Sikh who serves with devotion, expressing his obedience to me in the generous offerings, which he makes. (15)

Such is the service which I receive from a Gursikh. Hear me , Nand (Lal).

Giving himself he finds the deliverance which carries him to Paradise (baikunthe) (16)

Nand Lal speaks :

You have told me of three forms, Master: the invisible, the visble, and the Guru's Word . The invisible form we cannot see, and the visble is the obedient Sikh. (17)

Chaupai

How can we comprehend the infinity of your invisible form? The universe is your form, you whom we call Master , and your presence mystically pervades every heart . (How then can we perceive you ?) 18

The Guru Speaks :

You are a devout Sikh , Nand Lal . Hear this divine message which I impart to you. See the Guru as visible presence in his Sikhs and first you must serve me by diligently serving them (19)

Next you must serve me by singing the divine Word , accepting it as truly a sign . He who accepts the scriture as the (Guru's) Word shall come to an understanding of (his) infinite being . (20)

And so I conclude this homily , Brother. He who reads or hears it and pays careful heed to it will find himself the object of much admiration, his spirit mystically blended in Mine .

This message of comfort and joy was delivered on the ninth day of the waxing moon in the month of Maghar, S. 1752 (4 December 1695 CE ) . Let the Guru's praises be eveywhere sung declares Nand Lal . (22)