Were Guru Nanak Dev Ji God Himself ?

[sall]

WJKK WJKF

Maskeen jee was talking of this topic today hers are his words:

SGGS clearly states - "so mukh jalooo jo kehh thakur joneee"...

Pirs, pekhgambers, Aulayoos's, Guru's - which come to this world and do their duty and go. Then you have

sants, brahmgynaees, who continues the same kind of work but are not Guru's or pehghambars.

mool mantar clearly states - and describes God - " ajooni" doesn't ever take birth.

Please no bashing, just my two cents as I heard maskeen Jee talk on this today on Sikh channel, vichaar was amazing and clarified this question.

[Wales85]

Thats nice to know.

I simply cannot accept that God takes any human form.

[hkaurP]

I believe that Guru Ji taught us the path for God, but Guru Nanak Dev Ji weren't God because the Mool Mantar clearly defines that God can not be in any form. Yes we can say that Guru Nanak Dev Ji had God's Jot but since God is formless and cannot be inside a mother's womb, then Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj weren't God. The gurbani tuk that was presented can be interpreted in different ways. My interpretation is, that God is our teacher or Guru and there is no differenct between God and a spirtitual teacher, but that does not mean that Guru Nanak Dev Ji were God. I know many people will disagree but its up to everyone's own interpretations and beliefs.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji had the same Jot of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, but Guru Ji states; "

"Those who call me God, will fall into the deep pit of hell.

Regard me as one of his slaves and have no doubt whatever about it. I am a servant of the Supreme Being; and have come to behold the wonderful drama of life." - Guru Gobind Singh Ji

Guru Gobind Singh Ji also write that God ordered Guru Sahib to go down to earth in his previous Janam, when Guru Sahib was Dusht Daman.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

[sikha]

How is your interpretation of Guru Nanak being God (so Gurbani claims according to you) different from Bachitar Natak that states earlier messengers went astray for claiming to be God?

[Kharkooartsy]

In Sikhi philosophy

being elightened is becoming one with God... Gurus were enlightened how do you become enlightened? by following the path guru jis given us the path that is finer than a hair and sharper than a sword

people try to fit sikhi in the understanding the world understands..

God is everywhere in water, earth, sky everywhere God is inside of us.. that jot that is in our soul is there but maya has made us filthy the day we realize that jot is when we become God himself.

Gurus were enlightened they were more than enlightenened they were so in love with God that sitting on a hot plate didnt matter to them... Bhagat kabeer ji was having a conversation with god and he said god if only for one second you would come into my eyes.. and give me darshan in my eyes.. god said what would you do if i came into your eyes he said god i would close them and never open them for eternity.. thats pyar...(bhai sukha singh ji) thats how you become one with God.

We argue and try to understand Gurbani we can't understand gurbani can't judge,argue using gurbani lines... only way we can't be enlightened is by understanding Gurbani.

God can't be understood.. god is beyond words..

We can't understand God.. we simpy have to love god.. why understand that swimming with dolphins is fun why not go and do it? (bhai sukha singh)

[Kharkooartsy]

if you tell a christain that god is everywhere god is inside of us.. then they laugh/ freak out.. because god is jesus and jesus is only in heaven...

all the gurus were roop of god.!! this tells us that not only guru nanak dev ji was god but all the gurus were roop of God..

God isn't some so narrow who could only exist in one place at once...

God is more than just words he cant be described.. !!

Its different to say I am god... pray to me.. and its different to say.. Guru Parmesar Iko Jaan... because this line is telling us to understand that Guru has realized that jot thats within him and he has become one with Vaheguroo..

Sikhi philosophy is so different than the philosophy of other religions but we still try to narrow it down and try to put it in terms of other religions!

vah vah sikho!

How is your interpretation of Guru Nanak being God (so Gurbani claims according to you) different from Bachitar Natak that states earlier messengers went astray for claiming to be God?

[sikha]

With all due respect singh ji then what you say makes no sense whatsoever

If the earlier hindu avatars were God, then what would be the problem in saying worship me? What else should God say ? I am God but go worship someone else?

[alias]

I agree that he is not, but over time religious figures are turned into incarnations of God....its just bound to happen. I know I am gonna get slammed for saying it, but I think if Guru Nanak heard people saying he was God he would not be happy...

guru ji saysਹਉ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਛਉ ਆਪਣੇ ਗੁਰ ਪੁਿਛ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਉ

this means that guru naanak dev ji is saying to us that they have asked their guru i.e. god, etc etc... so here some ppl wil wrongly say that this proves that guru nanak dev ji is not a guru.

this is rebuttled with guru prmysru eyko jwxu ] <gur parmeshwar eko jaan.>

but then people will say that this line is saying that parameswar is the only guru. implying again, that guru naanak dev ji was not guru..

but then the rebuttle to this is u say, well >>>why didi guru gobind singh ji say pritham bhagauti simar kai !guru! naanak... etc...

bottom line is that we are to see the gurus as our gurus. and god himself as our guru..

to understand what guru is, is very hard.. u will most defo get comfused by notions as pavan guru, sabad guru, and if u were told that guru is forever formless thus never takes pfisical form (though guru can become pargat through forms). and other such things..

lastly, we are told

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਏਕੋ ਜਾਣਾ ॥

meaning that guru ji is telling us to look at the one who takes the true prasaad, the one who recieves kirpa, to look at them and guru, as one...

i find it incomprehensible as to why people dont believe in sant and matha teking if this is written in guru maharaaj...

"the world that we can fathom, is is but a fleck of the reality that exists." this is my own uni quote that i used in my uni presentation of infinity to prove the existance of god through the mathematics of infinity.

dhan dhan ek jot

gurfateh

[alias]

I believe that Guru Ji taught us the path for God, but Guru Nanak Dev Ji weren't God because the Mool Mantar clearly defines that God can not be in any form. Yes we can say that Guru Nanak Dev Ji had God's Jot but since God is formless and cannot be inside a mother's womb, then Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj weren't God. The gurbani tuk that was presented can be interpreted in different ways. My interpretation is, that God is our teacher or Guru and there is no differenct between God and a spirtitual teacher, but that does not mean that Guru Nanak Dev Ji were God. I know many people will disagree but its up to everyone's own interpretations and beliefs.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji had the same Jot of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, but Guru Ji states; "

"Those who call me God, will fall into the deep pit of hell.

Regard me as one of his slaves and have no doubt whatever about it. I am a servant of the Supreme Being; and have come to behold the wonderful drama of life." - Guru Gobind Singh Ji

Guru Gobind Singh Ji also write that God ordered Guru Sahib to go down to earth in his previous Janam, when Guru Sahib was Dusht Daman.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

gurfateh..

once one immerses into the ek jot then that jot, and the jot of god is seen as 1. thus ppl say that god is on earth. which is true. but not in the full sense of this statment.

and!!!!!!!!!!!

where it sez jo HUM ko parmeswar ucharhe...

this does NOT mean that guru gobind singh ji is saying whoever calls ME god, guru ji is saying whoever calls themselves god. THEY will fall into hell. HUM IS BAHU BACHAN. i.e.plural ?tense?..

this is also true because ~3-4 pauria before guru ji talks about the moorakhs doing saying that they are god and making ppl bow down to them and 2-3 pauria after guruji talks about these moorakhs as well.. guruji also says >mahapurakh kaahu na pachaana< about these ppl. meaning that these ppl dont understand anything about God..

>>hak hak andesh<< and >>jin jaata so tis hi jeha<<

if bhai nand laal says guru gobind singh ji has the understanding of god, then guru maharaaj says whoever understands god, is exactly like him, then why do we still say that guru gobind singh ji is not god himself??

they are. (as far as this definition goes)

but then!!

guru maharaj also tells us that whoever understands god, I.E. A BRAHAM GIANI, >>bhrahamgyani aap nirankaar<<

all this is stated yey we stillsay that line about guru gobind sing is called guru, then we go to hell... this is not the case.

our sikhi is beautiful. our masters of our religion, our gurus are our base, and naam is the vibration we hop onto, to get to the undying light lord akaal.

soz if i was a bit over bearing...

gurfateh.

hum rulte firte

:wacko: :sleep: :wacko: :sleep: :ph34r::sad::| :huh: :ph34r: :happy:

[Only five]

Sikhs have Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj and they still can't understand Guru and God are one. For other religions they are told that their head leader is a messenger of God and these religions put limits on God. But Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj has not put one limit on Sri Waheguru ji or said Guru and Sri Waheguru ji are not one.

How can you say Sri Mool Mantar Sahib ji goes against what Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj is? If you did then you're calling Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj a fake Guru. Do you not read the line of Sri Mool Mantar Sahib ji, By Guru's grace? Do you even know what it means? Then comes up the ajooni thing. If you have a problem with Sri Waheguru ji taking form, then join the Muslims. Infact your thinking is not much different than the Muslims. You make call yourself a Sikh, but the heart of your's is truly a Muslim. Ajooni, speaks of the cycle of birth and death. That Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj is above this cycle of birth and death. He is not restricted by it. If you're allergic to saying Sri Waheguru ji can take form, then how can you say Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj is in everyone? Let me explain, when you say he is in everyone then your saying he also is in the fetus, in the womb of the mother. When that fetus is born, meaning comes from the womb then you also have Sri Waheguru ji being born? The same people with the same mouth say there is nothing else, but Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj. On one hand you want to say Sri Waheguru ji is never born, but then with the same mouth you say he is born(he's in everyone), without even knowing it. You have Sri Waheguru ji being born everyday then. What is happen here is that the person is mixing up sargun (with form) and nirgun (formless) as one concept. Sri Waheguru ji is always in a form and in the formless till this world exist. The form may change, vibration to singing, to speaking, to written(as of today Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj), but this does not make the previous form any lesser or any greater. Sri Waheguru ji took the form as Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj. Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj is the Shabad Guru. Baba Dee Singh ji rode a horse without his head, do you really think Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj the Master of Baba Deep Singh ji is going to be limited to his body? The Guru never comes or goes, but the human with a limited intellect sees the Guru as coming and going.