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VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA ! VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH ! Fellow Human Beings, when are you all going to realise that all humans are created the same, regardless of caste, creed, colour, sex or nationality. W

Committee of Guru Nanak Gurdwara in Edinburgh violate Sri Akal Takht Sahib Sandesh. Meat, alcohol and parties allowed on Gurdwara premises. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! It has recen

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! We strongly request indviduals not to make this a caste bashing issue. There is no point in standing for Gur Maryada if caste is still to be used as a mean

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Yes maybe it has been happening for last 50 years, but that doesnt mean we should let it carry on should we?

I didn't say we 'should' let it carry on. I said we 'will' let it carry on.

There is a very good reason why 'we' as the UK Sikh community managed to get hundreds of Sikhs in coach loads down to Grays Gurdwara because of parties taking place in a seperate building to the actual gurdwara but have not bothered with the dozen or so gurdwaras of the bhatra sangat where far worse things happen inside the actual gurdwara. And that reason is fear. Fear of being seen as 'casteist'. Hell we're even scared to mention it let alone do something about it.

If we're not scaredycats then answer me this : At the same time as the 'parties in a seperate building' in Grays story broke....a paaji here posted an actual video of actual chicken, bacon, pork sausages and eggs being served as actual langar in the actual langar hall of an actual gurdwara in southampton. If we're not timid little scaredycats can you please explain to me why we went down to Grays en masse rather than Southampton ? The answer is fear. Fear of being seen as casteist. Fear of being percieved as casteist. This fear is gonna eat us up.

my believe is that many Bhatra Gurdwara are actually owned not by sangat but by families, and the people who are in-charge run it like a business. i only wish the community would take on Sikhi more in a religious way and not culturally.

West London Singh not having a go bruv, you my hommie.

and I'm not having a meaningless go at the bhatra sangat either Gsinghysingh. Honestly. hand on my heart, I feel they need to move with the times. My feeling is that they are stuck in the same mentality of the 1930's and 1940's when they first arrived on these shores. The thing is, the wider Sikh community in the UK did exactly the same things here in the 1950's and 60's as the bhatra sangat is still doing today. The wider Sikh community though, learn't what is right and what is wrong and moved on.....changed their ways. lets take the UK's largest and premier Gurdwara for example ; Havelock Road , Southall. My grandfather was a regular there back in the 1960's, when the sangat first took it over from the dairy. He's told me how that particular Gurdwara, in fact all the Gurdwaras in the UK at the time, were seen as the community centre for the Sikhs. The langar hall was where all the men would gather after a hard days shift in the factory and drink alcohol together and eat meat. Butr slowly, as the families acieved somne level of education, they learn't that this is not right. I know bhatras. The impression I've got from bhatra friends is that they revel in their role as renegades and outsiders. They like that position. They like the fact that they do things like the hazoor sahib singhs and nihungs. Not like the mainstream sikh commuinity. Their children are in no hurry to teach their elders anything about sikhi. They're in no hurry to change anything. Very much stuck in the past as far as the wider sikh community is concerned. It's not just the beadbi in the gurdwara issue either. We could also talk about the way that the bhatra women are expected to do 'pardah'...or veiling in front of their menfolk. The way that bhatra sikh girls are all married off at the age of 16 and denied the chance of higher education etc. There are many issues here. People can easily wrongly accuse me of being casteist but I am anything but. I feel strongly that it is time to stop being scared to talk about these things and time to actively bring the bhatras in from the cold and part of the mainstream Sikh community in the UK. But if we're gonna be scared to mention it and bury our heads in the sand....that's never gonna happen.

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After a lengthy discussion with Gurcharan Singh Landa yesterday, it appears that the Edinburgh Gurdwara committee are now expressing some anxiety in relation to being considered tankhaya (apostates) by Sri Akal Takht Sahib for not adhering to Gur Maryada. The Gurdwara committee had several meetings over the weekend due to the overwhelming impact of the UK Sangat contacting the Gurdwara, President and Committee members directly.

Let's see what official communication they give out to the UK Sangat.

Benti to all those Gursikhs who have made contact with this committee, please keep the dialogue going. Unlike the Grays Gurdwara Committee, the Edninburgh Committee seem to be listening and open to discussion.

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WJKK WJKF

West london Singh - guess what area your from :)

You issued a challange i have 5 singhs ready ... if you want we'll go to any gurdwara you want but you have to stand at the front with us... if your ready drop me a PM.

so many people s saying this and that but if everyone got up and went to a gurdwara where beadbi was happening then i know that 4 others would meet you there... if they dont ask for saheedi pera and ask Guru ji to give you the strength to take them to safe place

Your house can be a gurdwara .. all it realy is is a building the outer shell, ie your body/ the paper on which the bani is written .

any way why bring in caste .. the guru freed everyone of caste its a GURU HOUSE where did the caste come in can you not go in and do matha?

Bhul chuk maff

Sad Sangat nu Guru ki Fateh

Saheeda nu purnam

WJKK WJKF

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Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

The UK Sangat have been in amicable discussions with prominent committee members such as Gurcharn Singh Landa and Weje Singh of Guru Nanak Gurdwara, Edinburgh, Scotland . The discussions have been positive and we hope to have outcome on the issue by the end of today.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

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I've been calling as have a few other singhs i know and i couldnt get thru to the secretary number that was up, but i got to speak with the president a couple of times. he seemed a bit ambushed first of all and confused, said that there was no hall, but then backtracked and said that what he meant to say was that the hall was no longer going to be open. Seems like a nice old guy who genuinely wanted the punga over with.

See what happens, but i hear that the committee have signed an agreement thats gonna get sent today confirming that the halls closed for BeadBi!!

Good work everyone, UK Sangat, Satkaar people, Edinburgh sangat and edinburgh committee!

Satkaar - can we get the offfical letter up on here please?

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Committee of Guru Nanak Gurdwara in Edinburgh violate Sri Akal Takht Sahib Sandesh.

Meat, alcohol and parties allowed on Gurdwara premises.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

It has recently been brought to the attention of the UK Sangat that the Committee of Guru Nanak Gurdwara, Edinburgh, Scotland have made plans to refurbish a hall which is part of the Gurdwara complex.

Over the past few years this hall had fallen into disuse, however parties where meat and alcohol were served had been held in this hall. In the past some visiting Sikhs, who happened to be at the Gurdwara when a party was taking place, had observed how the floor of the holy Darbar Sahib would shake due to the excessive bass from the DJ's speakers in the party hall.

Unfortunately, the Committee have now decided that the hall should be refurbished to generate an income stream from party bookings and have began to carry out renovation works. At present the Committees' sole purpose of this refurbishment will be to accommodate parties where meat and alcohol will be allowed as well as the promotion of a belligerent atmosphere.

Satkaar Committee UK, AKJ UK and Tarna Dal joined together to condemn the plans and wrote to the Committee of the Gurdwara on 19th October 2010 requesting that they agree to cease any refurbishments being done with the intent to make the party hall available again. The hall is currently being used as an extra Langar hall and suggestions were made to the Committee that they carry on using it for that purpose exclusively or any other Gurmat related activities.

The Committee were given copies of a specific Hukamnama and Sandesh from Sri Akal Takht Sahib which are binding to all Gurdwaras around the world. The Hukumnama and Sandesh clearly state that meat, alcohol, tobacco, dancing and drugs must never be allowed on the premises of the Gurdwara Estate.

Select members of the Committee were also approached on 19th October 2010 and personally handed letters. At this point, the Committee made several hurtful and false accusations, one member claiming that he had been to Bangla Sahib and was served meat there. Once the Sangat questioned him, he conceded that this was not factually correct. Other members of the Committee had on their mobile phones a video of Chatkaa taking place and were asking why this was so dissimilar to what they were doing. The Sangat informed them simply to contact Tarna Dal to clarify their questions and pointed out the letter from the Dal.

The Committee held an open meeting at the Guru Nanak Gurdwara to supposedly address this issue, however, it turned into a blame game with more concern on who had informed the "outsiders" about what was going on. Similarly, requests have been made by the Committee during weekly divaans at this Gurdwara asking for information on who called the "outsiders".

Despite the Gurdwara Committee being advised to halt their anti Sikh activities, on 6th November reports were received that meat was prepared on the Gurdwara premises. According to an eye witness, there was a party in full swing on that date and meat and alcohol were served. In addition, the eye witness mentioned that the foul stench could be smelt throughout the entire Gurdwara complex. Even more shocking was that the party was held by a member of the Gurdwara committee, the vice Treasurer, Baldev Singh Kusbia.

The UK Sangat have now written to Sri Akal Takht Sahib and provided Jathedar Ji Giani Gurbachan Singh with the details of the Gurdwara Committees who are in violation of the Sri Akal Takht Sahib's Sandesh of 2006.

We now humbly request that members of the UK Sangat, other Parbahandak Committees and Sikh Leaders to contact this Committee in a respectful fashion to help them understand their obligation to Sri Akal Takht Sahib.

President - Gurcharn Singh Landa 07854 802429

General Secretary - Kuldip Singh Bhai - 07531 253473

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

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Admin Note: Everyone is allowed to express their opinions, but it is our humble benti that you keep your comments civilised and conforming to the Sikhsangat posting rules. Any attempts to turn this into Jatha-bashing, caste, or race related issue will not be tolerated and appropriate action WILL be taken against repeating offenders. Dhanvaad!

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Press Release 16th November 2010, Edinburgh, UK

Edinburgh Gurdwara adhere to Akal Takht Sandesh

Meat, Alcohol and Parties no longer allowed on Gurdwara Complex.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

With Guru Ji's blessings, The Sevadars of Satkaar Committee, AKJ UK and Tarna Dal are delighted to announce that Edinburgh Gurdwara's Members and Committees have taken the historic step in agreeing to stop the hall being used for party functions, prohibiting meat, alcohol and dancing on the holy grounds of the Gurdwara Estate (please see letter below).

This is a monumental result, that has only come through the Guru's Kirpa (blessing) and the devoted effort of all the sevadars who have joined together to tackle this problem.

The Edinburgh Sangat must be congratulated for being the first Gurdwara in this new Satkaar campaign that has begun in the UK, to take the affirmative step of recognising the mistake and rectifying it.

In a statement to be released shortly by the Committee of Guru Nanak Gurdwara Edinburgh, they declare,

"We would like to pass on our gratitude to the Satkaar Committee, AKJ, Tarna Dal & GNNSJ for all their help in resolving this issue and giving us that final push to eradicate this problem and also appreciate the initial support given to us by the Respect for Guru Granth Sahib Ji campaign Sevadars.

On behalf the Edinburgh Sangat we would like to thank all who have supported in this matter there are many nameless individuals who have helped and we are very grateful to each and every one of them.

We would also like take this opportunity to encourage all other Gurdwara's who are in similar situations as we were to accept the Akal Tahkts Sandesh and put a stop to the Beadbi."

Gurcharan Singh Landa (Pardan)

Kuldeep Singh Bhai (General Secretary)

On behalf of the sevadars, a humble thank you must also go to the UK Sangat as a whole for supporting the cause, and for becoming involved in this case. As Edinburgh have now set the trend, we are confident that others will also see that these party halls and such immoral acts must be stopped in Gurdwaras or on Gurdwara property. We hope to bring further good news in the coming week to the Sangat about the same issue that is being resolved in Grays.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

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just as I was quick to condemn, I have to also say that i commend the Edinburgh lot and also the sevadars who all made this possible. Fantastic news, just really amazing. LEts see what Grays does in the next week, if they will be as brave as these guys and follow the lead. The pressure's on now!

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just as I was quick to condemn, I have to also say that i commend the Edinburgh lot and also the sevadars who all made this possible. Fantastic news, just really amazing. LEts see what Grays does in the next week, if they will be as brave as these guys and follow the lead. The pressure's on now!

Excellent news, well done to all concerned.

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